Circuit Park Zandvoort

Circuit Park Zandvoort v.D3.42

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@Grippy can you explain bit more about that missing thing on mentioned corner?
Looked my onboard video and real onboard and only difference what I found is distance between second last right hander and final right hander, my track there is longer "straight" between them, and that cannot be removed or have to sacrifice 1:1 working corner combinations before it.
Only place where you couldn't take 100% 1:1 driving line is between those second last and last turn. That price i I'm willing to pay for rest of track to be working as is.
 
OdeFinn
@Grippy can you explain bit more about that missing thing on mentioned corner?
Looked my onboard video and real onboard and only difference what I found is distance between second last right hander and final right hander, my track there is longer "straight" between them, and that cannot be removed or have to sacrifice 1:1 working corner combinations before it.
Only place where you couldn't take 100% 1:1 driving line is between those second last and last turn. That price i I'm willing to pay for rest of track to be working as is.
Click to expand...

Hey honestly, it's quite difficult to judge from onboard videos, with different FOV each video etc (I know, I've tried similar things in past) Best is to use them as a rough guide so the Racing Line is the same (The perfect line). If the ideal Racing Line is different from reality, it's a pretty good indicator your track is off by some margin in its design/recreation.

I've only played on this track through Assetto Corsa, so my experience is also limited! I wouldn't suggest you to recreate the whole track just to please me! I know how long it can take, besides I just try tracks, I don't keep them in this game, I have no room for new tracks otherwise! ;)

Now onto the corner, you look here at this better blueprint https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Zandvoort.svg

You will see the Tarzan corner (U turn down the pit straight) is actually more like a mix of V and U than U, whereas in game your track starts the corner as a U and kind of just blends it to the next corner, there's no clear "Apex point" mid-turn like the real corner has. You need more detail and anchor points to achieve it to the blueprint!
 
Grippy
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/circuit_zandvoort_1-png.459057/ That's the blueprint you used, look at the same Tarzan corner, it's all wrong there, It's not supposed to be a perfect U, hope you see how blueprints can make the real difference!
Click to expand...
Well that's not my blueprint, only for track demonstration. Here's pictures from my one shape blueprints (google®) and from editor.
IMG_20170213_005233.jpg
IMG_20170213_005027.jpg
IMG_20170213_010856.jpg


Limitations of sf-straight pushes 1st and last wider. Shape is close to real.

For easier comparison:
IMG_20170213_012812.jpg
 
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Grippy
I see. Are you using a modified CM apk? that would be easier to make reccomendations
Click to expand...
Stock, didn't get modified work when tried it long time ago, probably needs clear installation or something, it just stops on installation and won't go any further. Using android tablet with custom OS.
 
I was going to do the overlap myself but you've done it already. I think the problem I found was I tend to use all of the track for my racing line. I come to rethink now it's pretty much a matter of opinion, I would've made the whole track wider and then as accurate as possible without catering to the amateur racing line. Giving the illusion of inaccuracy. You win.

Too bad you can't use the modded CM apk, would be even better.
 
Let me ask you though, do you think it's as accurate as it should be? Or do you enjoy hotlapping this track alongside the real thing? I can't say I do but maybe I'll warm up to it.
 
Grippy
I was going to do the overlap myself but you've done it already. I think the problem I found was I tend to use all of the track for my racing line. I come to rethink now it's pretty much a matter of opinion, I would've made the whole track wider and then as accurate as possible without catering to the amateur racing line. Giving the illusion of inaccuracy. You win.

Too bad you can't use the modded CM apk, would be even better.
Click to expand...

My target was to create track what offers similar challenge on sane corners as real, possibility to tackle corners on same driving line and throttle inputs as real, i.e. corners 6 and 7, it will swing you out if taking bad line, and 10 and 11 (Audi S) you can take around 100kmh thru it with right line, starting from same place as real, and corner 12 can be done really fast with correct line, again identical to real and final corner just on edge of flat out with right line. All of those corners will throw it out if taking wrong line or approach.
That challenge to hanging on good flow thru track gives me satisfaction, only place where you're taking breath is first half of sf-straight, everywhere else you're tackling corner or setting car ready for next one.

Width of track is 10m and that's copied from real, real has wider track on some corners but stated track width is 10m, that extra width on real is on outside of corner, not used if tackling corner even close to good line, as you see on above pictures I've used track shapes from inside corner, places where you're driving.

Grippy
Let me ask you though, do you think it's as accurate as it should be? Or do you enjoy hotlapping this track alongside the real thing? I can't say I do but maybe I'll warm up to it.
Click to expand...

In limits and usability of stock editor I'm satisfied on results, but I'd like to get several things better, stock and custom cm pushes your creativity to do constantly compromises.. Track surface will suffer if trying to do some sharp direction changes, not possible to fix track camber, elevation, different track width on corners and straight isn't possible..or surroundings and runoff areas aren't freely adjustable.

Biggest pain gives clumsy sf-straight, due that my creation is 350-400m too long, and that extra lenght is now "hidden" on final corner area (after Audi) and actual sf-straight, what is longer than real.

But yes I like to drive around that track, pushing Porsche hard around it, just due this conversation I loaded it online yesterday (and will do it today too) for hotlapping RGT on there, 1:52.049 on RGT under 535pp/1230kg/SS all real and tyre wear Fast and damage hard, ABS allowed and I was using "991 on 996 Replica implementation" for that.Lap time achieved on 3rd lap from refuel, so pretty full tank.
tgedwfegi0a4pwo9sm_0-jpg.617689

Porsche 911/991 Cup Car setup - on RUF RGT 911/996
535pp​


Tuned for version 1.2x
NO Oil change
NO Body Rigidity Installed - editing later changes for body rigidity version
Suspension (Full Custom) - Sports Soft - representing slick race tires
Ride Height (mm): 78 / 100
Spring Rate (kgf/mm): 8.72 / 10.76 (=85.5N/mm / 105.5N/mm, instead of 240N/mm / 260N/mm due limit of GT6 spring rate, compensated on higher dampers and ARB's)
Dampers (Compression): 9 / 9
Dampers (Extension): 8 / 8 (lower than compression, simulating helper springs capability to extend quicker)
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 / 7 (one click higher than specs, compensating softer spring rate)
Camber Angle (-): 4.5 / 4.0
Toe Angle: -0.25 / +0.17 (Front 20:1 because no rigidly makes effective toe -0.045, rear as specs, rear in GT6.. Is it total or per side? +0.34 there works nice, makes car more stable.. Don't know what to use for authenticity..)
Brake Balance Controller
Racing Brakes (really heavy power :) ) - forget to paint on picture, choose nicest, prefer matte colors.
Brake Balance: 6 / 7 (slightly rear bias, as specs, driver should check his personal bias, persoonat like 9/10 std brakes noABS use)

Drivetrain
LSD 8/33/52 - initial from 7 to 10, driver choice
Dual Clutch - (should use triple as real, personally triple and 8 unit on 78/100 height is just great)

Power for 460BHP/465Nm/535pp
Limiter - 93.1%
Engine Stage 2
Sports Computer Installed
Racing Exhaust
Isometric Exhaust Manifold
Intake Tuning
Revs will limit on 8500rpm, power is just googled, but not verified..


Gearbox - 260kmh with power parts and 3.789 final
__________
#1___3.154
#2___2.353
#3___1.895
#4___1.526
#5___1.250
#6___1.029
__________
Final__3.789

Body weight 1235kg (41:59 balance) not accurate, no infos, but lucky close shot WD - painted with Grand Prix White

Stage 2 Weight Reduction
Carbon Bonnet Body Colour
Ballast 30kg @+47
Ballast amount and position are just thrown in without better testing.


Wheels - stock size (18") RAYS 57Xtreme (used for two reasons, look and capability to handle high camber) - painted with Sterling Silver Metallic


Notes: use triple clutch and LSD initial 8 and +0.17 rear toe. Standard Brakes 9/10 for noABS use.
Personal addition, -0.23 Front toe and 8/8 or 8/9 brakes, for longer track 3.444 final, front toe takes efective toe close to zero and car handles more relaxed.
Rims are changed from those all-around 57Xtremes to MOTEGI RACING TOUGE 3rd on list
info source and original conversation
 
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OdeFinn
Track surface will suffer if trying to do some sharp direction changes, not possible to fix track camber, elevation, different track width on corners and straight isn't possible..or surroundings and runoff areas aren't freely adjustable.
Click to expand...

Track surface: You can add detail now, you need new mod tools.

Track camber: yes you can, with new tools.

Elevation: yes you can, with new tools.

What is rather exciting is Mr Grumpy has shown you can have two track widths, yes you can now. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...racks-discussion.337816/page-42#post-11708635

Straight: There is one way to shorten the straight, again you need the tools.

Surroundings I'm not too concerned about, but yes you can change that a bit

Runoff may be adjustable in future, with new tools.

Depends, if you want to work hard and redo your track. Possibilities are endless now with new tools.
 
Grippy
Track surface: You can add detail now, you need new mod tools.

Track camber: yes you can, with new tools.

Elevation: yes you can, with new tools.

What is rather exciting is Mr Grumpy has shown you can have two track widths, yes you can now. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...racks-discussion.337816/page-42#post-11708635

Straight: There is one way to shorten the straight, again you need the tools.

Surroundings I'm not too concerned about, but yes you can change that a bit

Runoff may be adjustable in future, with new tools.

Depends, if you want to work hard and redo your track. Possibilities are endless now with new tools.
Click to expand...
Have occasionally read those custom CM stuff, but it just won't install and reason is unknown for me.
I'd like to try that, but no can do without working install.
 
Realistically we don't need the TPE anymore. Everything is done with apps that run on Python 3. As long as you can install python 3 and a few dependencies the layout creator, ted editor and elevation editor will do the majority of what you need to update this and any other track. You can even use your original track as a base by extracting the .ted file from a replay. Having an editor like 010 will help too so you can manually add decorations and change road types as well as a few other variables like checkpoints, startline position and track width.
 
NingDynasty
Realistically we don't need the TPE anymore. Everything is done with apps that run on Python 3. As long as you can install python 3 and a few dependencies the layout creator, ted editor and elevation editor will do the majority of what you need to update this and any other track. You can even use your original track as a base by extracting the .ted file from a replay. Having an editor like 010 will help too so you can manually add decorations and change road types as well as a few other variables like checkpoints, startline position and track width.
Click to expand...
Maybe I need just "for dummies"-edition abc-guide to use those tools.. Too much digging to start using them now, or is there now any guide out already?
 
Yeah so I guess there isn't a guide per say but it is all contained to 1 thread pretty well. The tools themselves all have pretty decent documentation of their features as well either in the tool or the post where it is hosted. A shortcut to all of the (or the majority of) the tools is here.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/course-maker-toolbox.352281/

I'm not anywhere near as good as these other guys but I'll be glad to share any of my knowledge with you. I know the approach you took with these tracks using the TPE and we'd all benefit from you jumping on the editing train. Run some laps on your base tracks and get the replays over to your pc and send me a pm we'll go from there.
 
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@NingDynasty, I need to fix one of my windows computers first, over year ago last time when any of those were even powered, my linux laptop is "only" machine in use, if needing something more than Android tablet won't provide, over half year no need for that either..
But I'm interested to check those editor tools, need to read maybe 50pages of custom CM thread and ask handful of questions before anything actual can be done.

After quick overview seems like camber isn't easily adjusted "per corner" on those tools..
Is track decoration possible to do with any graphical UI? Or is track created with eran's tool possible to reopen on modified TPE for kerb placements etc?

If I create a track I want kebs to be precise where they should be, but going on hex editor on those is out of question..

-> heading to modified TPE thread to read what there is..
 
OdeFinn
@NingDynasty, I need to fix one of my windows computers first, over year ago last time when any of those were even powered, my linux laptop is "only" machine in use, if needing something more than Android tablet won't provide, over half year no need for that either..
But I'm interested to check those editor tools, need to read maybe 50pages of custom CM thread and ask handful of questions before anything actual can be done.

After quick overview seems like camber isn't easily adjusted "per corner" on those tools..
Is track decoration possible to do with any graphical UI? Or is track created with eran's tool possible to reopen on modified TPE for kerb placements etc?

If I create a track I want kebs to be precise where they should be, but going on hex editor on those is out of question..

-> heading to modified TPE thread to read what there is..
Click to expand...

Camber can be done via the TED editor or manually via hex editing with an editor like 010. It is easily adjustable per corner though some fine tuning is needed to get them nice and smooth sometimes.

Decoration is not yet built into a graphical interface but I find with hex editing in 010 it's extremely easy to get the placement exact. I use the TED editor and Elevation editor to find the meter mark I'm looking for and input the data into the ted file manually. Could it be easier? Sure, but it's still pretty easy and very precise. For kerbs it's literally just picking the length of the kerb and it's starting point.
 
OdeFinn updated Circuit Park Zandvoort with a new update entry:

Fully remade with custom tools, elevations added.

My first "third generation" track, custom track editor and elevation editor used..
I'm happy with results, worth of trying if liking replica tracks.

Quick peak how it looks, don't mind driving errors, I was looking scenery and trying to find any mistakes on game rendering, but didn't find any, only nearly driving out and find walls.. :)

Click to expand...


Read the rest of this update entry...
 
Dear odefinn, i love your version of Zandvoort its the best out there.
If you want a good view of the real-life track check out
I work with racecars and we mainly drive on zandvoort. So feel free to ask anything!
 
Jerrypiet
Dear odefinn, i love your version of Zandvoort its the best out there.
If you want a good view of the real-life track check out
I work with racecars and we mainly drive on zandvoort. So feel free to ask anything!
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'd appreciate if you could point any flaws on elevations, I'm nearly satisfied it as is, banking angles will change few places a bit, to better, but as you might seen banking is next thing on to do list.

Video link isn't working.. All good video material is welcome!
 
@Jerrypiet actually you know where there is some small bumps or drops on track, places what you avoid or use on driving line, meaning small nuances on track what can only be felt thru car suspension, if you can pinpoint those to be then I could add them on track. :bowdown:
 
OdeFinn
@Jerrypiet actually you know where there is some small bumps or drops on track, places what you avoid or use on driving line, meaning small nuances on track what can only be felt thru car suspension, if you can pinpoint those to be then I could add them on track. :bowdown:
Click to expand...

Well the track hasnt got al lot of spots to avoid, for elevation en banging id advise you to watch onboard videos like this "radical onboard on zandvoort"
 
Jerrypiet
Well the track hasnt got al lot of spots to avoid, for elevation en banging id advise you to watch onboard videos like this "radical onboard on zandvoort"
Click to expand...

That same video has rolled lots and lots of times on my screen ;)
Another reference video, from better pov height:
 
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