Cizeta tune

174
Iriquois
We all know the cizeta is one of the hardest cars to tune if not the(e) hardest. Anyways for a while now, i had completely forgotten about the cizeta in my garage until I was looking up tunes(on gtplanet) for all my favorite cars. There were a couple of available tunes for the cizeta(from RKM, JG, Zed and aardvarks) but all of these only very slightly less oversteer-y but were still uncontrollable and impossible to drive. So after hours of tuning i managed to come up with a tune where the monstrous oversteer can be stablised:

All Parts needed to buy(including even rigidity improvement)

Ballast:
200 kg amount
-50 position

Transmission:
2.552 1st
1.607 2nd
1.188 3rd
0.900 4th
0.744 5th
4.000 final
Set to 255 max speed before changing gears


LSD:
Initial torque: 10
Acceleration: 30
Braking: 20


Suspension:
Ride height: -20/+20
Spring rate: 12.5/7.5
Dampers(E): 7/6
Dampers(C): 5/6
Anti-roll bars: 1/7
Camber angle: 0.7/7.0
Toe angle: +0.05/-0.10

Brake balance: 8/4

Tuned using soft racing tyres and no aids except ABS 1

Notes:
I tested this along the nurburgring and after using this tune, i got a lap time of precisely 7 minutes. Now, the thing about the cizeta is the rear wheels are very sensitive which is the reason for the oversteeriing and spinning out, but after my tune, this hardly happens as much and whenever it does you can re-correct(and re-stabilise) the car by pushing the throttle to the max whilst turning the wheel in the opposite direction of the sliding motion. Overall effect: a lot less oversteer; but i had to sacrifice this for a bit of more understeer. Either way it is much much better than the cizeta tunes given by the aforementioned tuners. Although this a superior tune, there are a couple of things you got to watch out for:

1. Slope: Because the force is unevenly distributed along the the front and rear wheels, turning while going up or down a slope will cause it to slip out no matter what tune you use. The nurburgring is a very sloped course so 7 minutes for a cizeta is pretty good, wouldnt you say? But this also means you have to break much earlier during cornering on this track. On flat ground tracks, the cizeta wont be affected by this.

2. Grass/Dirt: Like i said before, the cizeta is so sensitive, it will uncontrollably spin out if even the slightest point of any of your 4 tires comes in contact with the grass and/or dirt. So you can say this tune is for experienced drivers.

3. Speed: At low speeds, it is more prone to oversteering when turning or cornering whereas it is more stable when traveling at high speeds. But like i said, this can be corrected by turning the wheel in the opposite direction when slipping out( to re-align your car with the road or possibly drift around the turn)

Anyways, if you're looking for a decent tune for this car, i would definitely go with this one; the others are horrible( no offense to the tuners with the cizeta tunes).

If you could maybe leave any feedback, would be nice :)
 
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Camber angle: 0.7/7.0

One thing…is that a typo? Or do you really mean 7.0 rear camber? Another thing, that rear spring rate looks worryingly soft for such an oversteery car…I'm no master at tuning and nor can I "read" tunes well, if at all, but I might suggest a stiffer rear for more stability…on paper, anyway.

Also, since you do seem very confident in it (overly?), I think I might test it, might only to prove your point wrong, but even if I do, it'll all be in jest. :P

Anyway, do expect some feedback soon.
 
One thing…is that a typo? Or do you really mean 7.0 rear camber? Another thing, that rear spring rate looks worryingly soft for such an oversteery car…I'm no master at tuning and nor can I "read" tunes well, if at all, but I might suggest a stiffer rear for more stability…on paper, anyway.

Also, since you do seem very confident in it (overly?), I think I might test it, might only to prove your point wrong, but even if I do, it'll all be in jest. :P

Anyway, do expect some feedback soon.


Yea, I expected someone to post something like yours concerning my tuning, but no its not a typo. Test the tune settings out, you'll see its a much better tune than you can find somewhere else. I also just tested it out on Trial mountain circuit: i got a lap time of 1 minute 30 seconds. The reason why it has 7.0 for the rear camber angle is because it needs A LOT of grip so that it needs the "maximum amount of the tyre possible to be in contact with the road."

As for the ride height and spring rate:
I have a higher rear end for the same reason as for the camber angle( need as much of the tyre to remain in contact with the road.) And you only increase spring rate to compensate for lower ride height.

I would suggest for you guys to try it out on trial mountain circuit and post your lap times to compare it to my 1:30
 
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1:30 on trial mountain using RS tires is a joke.

Now, now, be nice. You've been around one too many NFS fanboi, I see. :P

I know my DB9 at 545PP on sport softs runs a 1:28.xxx, but it could be down to too many factors for the tune to be judged. Could just be his lines that let the side down.
 
The problem is, if you go to cure oversteer out of corners, you'll more than likely get understeer into them. The further back the engine, the harder the tune gets. The Cizeta is very MR and to compound to the problem still weighs a good bit with all mods and has a chocload of power to handle. It is difficult to get the thing to work, and it's more than likely better left as a fun drive that slides to eternity at superhigh speeds.
 
The problem is, if you go to cure oversteer out of corners, you'll more than likely get understeer into them. The further back the engine, the harder the tune gets. The Cizeta is very MR and to compound to the problem still weighs a good bit with all mods and has a chocload of power to handle. It is difficult to get the thing to work, and it's more than likely better left as a fun drive that slides to eternity at superhigh speeds.

Yes exactly, as i got rid of most of the troublesome oversteer, it slightly understeers as a result when i tested it. But the main problem with the cizeta is with the oversteer; if you can fix it then its good as it can get, which is exactly what my tune is. It slightly understeers and oversteers but the oversteer can be controlled by a combination of acceleration control and turning the wheel and the understeer can be fixed by braking slightly earlier than normal.
But it sounds like you havent tested it out, so i would urge you to. :)
 
Another thing, that rear spring rate looks worryingly soft for such an oversteery car…I'm no master at tuning and nor can I "read" tunes well, if at all, but I might suggest a stiffer rear for more stability…on paper, anyway.
Have a look at the bars setting..... then it starts making sense. 💡

What really worries me is the ride height, understeer hello!
But hey, let's be fair and test it. Maybe I'll have some time (probably not, :lol:).
 
Have a look at the bars setting..... then it starts making sense. 💡

What really worries me is the ride height, understeer hello!
But hey, let's be fair and test it. Maybe I'll have some time (probably not lol).

I tune my FF cars this way, you think I wouldn't know? :P The main concern I have is that, as I am finding out now, it will roast the front outside tyre when you brake. It seems to be the downside to a stiff front…I think. I tried this style of setup on my 500PP Elise, and every time I brake hard in it, the outside tyres turn pink/red depending on the speed.

I am, now shut up and go back to drag racing, Doc, you're being distracting. :P And no, no piano for you. :P
 
No I haven't tried the tune yet. That being said the springs and dampers look okay, and I can understand the ride height. What I don't get is the toe settings. Your worried about oversteer yet give it negative rear toe which makes the rear end more unstable and prone to sliding out. Then you give it positive front toe which makes it more likely to understeer into corners and inhibit the cars rotation. You might try swapping the front and rear toe settings. Also the LSD Accel and Decel looks to be a bit high, but that could just be me.

Bottom line is just about any car over 550PP should be able to do 1:30s or better on Trial Mountain when equipped with RS tires. The weight of the car is actually not as much of a negative as some may think, especially on a rougher track, as it means with a properly set up suspension it will ride over the bumps, unlike a very light car that will get tossed about. (One of the "Holy Handgrenade's" problems is its extremely light weight, and yes it will do 1:30s on RS tires.)

I'll have a look at setting up a Cizeta when I get finished with work this morning.👍👍

Tuner Wars anyone?:crazy::D
 
yea i understand what you mean about racing with RS tires but if you look at the cizeta we can all agree its not like every other car. If you ever driven it, you would know its is totally undriveable on default setting or any other tuners setup of the cizeta(wether you use RS tires or not)
 
Ehh…laptop just went on me…:grumpy: So the long winded load of points I wrote has been lost. :grumpy: So, very quick, not that detailed feedback on my dad's laptop:

Stock time: 1:26.927
Tuned time: 1:27.606

The oversteer has been toned down, and I mean just toned down. It will oversteer in mid speed corners, mainly on exit at 70-100mph, but this is a good thing as I like my cars looser on exit. The understeer is there at high speeds ,and is down to a number of things which is fairly easy to solve.

- Lower the ride height to 15 or 10, 20 is good for grip, but too much is at the back/Raise the front to 0 to balance things out (not tried either, so no guarantees).

- Instead of 8/4 on the brakes, try 5/7 or 7/5 if you prefer a front bias. Extremes on either end causes understeer/oversteer.

This tune is a "Heaven/Hell" thing for me. Entering a corner from high speed is absolute hell, you can't brake too long or too hard and it will understeer. Exiting a corner, however, is not at all hell, lovely controlled oversteer like that of a high powered FR car.

And yes, that isn't a typo, I was slower in the tuned one than the one without settings. The perfect tune for this car, for me, is to have the toned down oversteer you have here, but without roasting any tyres when I go near the brakes.
 
Ehh…laptop just went on me…:grumpy: So the long winded load of points I wrote has been lost. :grumpy: So, very quick, not that detailed feedback on my dad's laptop:

Stock time: 1:26.927
Tuned time: 1:27.606

The oversteer has been toned down, and I mean just toned down. It will oversteer in mid speed corners, mainly on exit at 70-100mph, but this is a good thing as I like my cars looser on exit. The understeer is there at high speeds ,and is down to a number of things which is fairly easy to solve.

- Lower the ride height to 15 or 10, 20 is good for grip, but too much is at the back/Raise the front to 0 to balance things out (not tried either, so no guarantees).

- Instead of 8/4 on the brakes, try 5/7 or 7/5 if you prefer a front bias. Extremes on either end causes understeer/oversteer.

This tune is a "Heaven/Hell" thing for me. Entering a corner from high speed is absolute hell, you can't brake too long or too hard and it will understeer. Exiting a corner, however, is not at all hell, lovely controlled oversteer like that of a high powered FR car.

And yes, that isn't a typo, I was slower in the tuned one than the one without settings. The perfect tune for this car, for me, is to have the toned down oversteer you have here, but without roasting any tyres when I go near the brakes.


Ok thanks for your input; although i find it strange you were faster with the stock. Anyways, thats what i was going for: to reduce the amount of oversteer as much as possible. But again, thanks for your input.
 
Ok thanks for your input; although i find it strange you were faster with the stock. Anyways, thats what i was going for: to reduce the amount of oversteer as much as possible. But again, thanks for your input.

It could just be something as simple as the 200kg ballast slowing it down. But glad I could help.
 
Seeing i am clueless about tuning :D
I would like to maje the comment that sometimes tuners overtune a car , and with doing that actually not only kill the fun of driving a car with typical characteristics ( if that is spelled correctly i'll jump of joy :P ) but actually making the car slower , do note i am not claiming that is the case with you're tune it is more a general comment .

Sometimes less is just better .

On a side note i don't have the car so testing is impossible atm , but running at 7.0 camber does that not make the car unstable at heavy breaking and eating the tires like mad ?

But don't let it stop you from tuning if you enjoy it keep working on it and posting stuff , people can only learn by trail and error or something like that i don't know the saying :D
 
I added that 200 kg to the front for more grip;
if you take off that 200kg, the handling will drastically change.

Ah, I see. Actually, I found out already after taking it off to see how it'll drive without. Results weren't nice, to say the least.
 
Well, I havn't been able to tune lately, or been beaten by the Outlaws enough :lol: soooo.... sure what the hell :dopey:

:lol: You can count me out, I ain't blowing another 500k on another Cizeta. From now on, its only going down one straight and that's the 1/4 mile. :P
 
C-ZETA as very generously donated a Cizeta to me, though I have a sneaking suspicion that he's got more than enough already.

Nope. That was just the only one I had.

Isn't it cool, being able to donate yourself? :dopey:
 
Nope. That was just the only one I had.

Isn't it cool, being able to donate yourself? :dopey:

Well isn't someone feeling generous today, giving away the only copy of his car. Unless you duped it, of course.

Yea, I now have a you in my garage! :dopey:
 
I give a quick test to your tune on the Nurburgring Nordschleife. I have one myself that i´ve never finished , so i ´ve used the 3 tuning sheets A= my tune / B=your tune / C= RKM tune as reference.
My tune and RKM one was 571PP with no compressor and your 578 PP with 200kg ballast and compressor.

Your car is very safe , fast, easy to drive, even under strong braking over bumps. Good balance, no bad surprise never.
The only problem is the understeer in & out corner , perhaps a ride height less extreme can correct this problem.
The price to pay is that the characteristics of the car are totally changed,this let the car a little bit slower. Not possible to drive aggressively ,the front don´t reach the apex easy like any MR car and the typical powerfull out corner is also not present.
To resume , the car is very easy with a good steady driving line, but it lose a big part of his eagerness like a well tuned MR must have ,allowing a technical but fast and fun driving style.
My tune and RKM tune are very close in performance ,this stay a reference for me and i think i will finish and publish mine when i´ll have time.

Congratulations , i recomand your tune to any people who have problems with MR and specially with this car . It´s tamed but not faster.

Have a good day everybody. I have to go to the beach now.

Paracuru CE Brasil. Young guns training and having fun.

IMG_1789.jpg
 
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Try this tune..

G27 wheel - Force feedback 5, "sim" steering, sensitivty "2"

If you're using a controller change your steering sensitivty to about 4 or 5 (I think).

CIZETA V16T

ONLINE SETUP ONLY

566bhp
1640kgs
541pp

NO ballast
NO Aero
NO Rigidity added

Gearbox (can't remember how I got this)

1 - 2.668
2 - 1.668
3 - 1.228
4 - 0.950
5 - 0.772

Final drive - 4.658
Max speed 211

LSD:

20
10
20

Brakes:

Fr - 5
Rr - 4

Suspension:

SPORTS soft tyres - Trial mountain

-10 / 0
10.8 / 13.1
4 / 9
3 / 7
3 / 4
1.7 / 2.8
-0.10 / +0.20

Racing Soft - Trial / Nurb (I don't use these at all, so this setup isn't as good a sports tyre one).

-6 / 0
10.8 / 14.1
5 / 6
4 / 6
3 / 3
1.7 / 2.2
-0.10 / +0.20

You need to gain confidence in the car, then don't "force it" into the corners, just kinda ease it in then gentle usher it though. Kinda drives itself through some corners.

At Trial with sports, make use of the massive torque and short shift for some corners. In a race, best lap time is 1.32 for the SPORTS tyres @ trial - this setup is for a 8/9 lap race, so it's not the fastest but drive it right and the tyres will last.

Drive it wrong, tyres will be bye-bye in 2 or 3 laps.

Not sure about racing softs, had a quick blast with it, felt pretty stable at rial and nurb. Haven't a clue about lap times or tyre wear though - I don't even remember tuning it for these tyres, but it feels pretty good compared to stock.

Car would be alot better with rigidity aded, but I race mine in a stock series so can't add that option.

Hope one of these helps you..

Remember to adjust steering sensitivty, otherwise setup won't work.

Good luck..
 
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