CLK LM top speed is it correct to real life?

[AussieMitch]

Just curious how fast this thing would typically go at Le Man's in its day? I read it could get up to 330kph on Wikipedia but in game it topped out at around 312... Is this lower speed more typical of a race trim setup?

 

[Alex p.]

Most of the top speeds in GTs are wrong. Polyphony just doesn't get it right quite often...

 

[Nielsen]

Just curious how fast this thing would typically go at Le Man's in its day? I read it could get up to 330kph on Wikipedia but in game it topped out at around 312... Is this lower speed more typical of a race trim setup?

Have you tried tuning the aero parts to prioritize speed over downforce?

 

[Magog]

Race cars are made to be adjusted. Aero and transmission along with ride height will dramatically effect top speed.

 

[pedrocor]

The highest top speed recorded in Le Mans 98 was 326 km/h by the Nissan 390 GT1. The BM2 V12 and the Mercedes were pretty even with the Nissan in top speed, so it should be around 320-325 km/h. The gear ratios should allow a bit longer than that to not overstress the engine.

 

[Famine]

Just curious how fast this thing would typically go at Le Man's in its day? I read it could get up to 330kph on Wikipedia but in game it topped out at around 312... Is this lower speed more typical of a race trim setup?

Not just that, but the car didn't only race at Le Mans. It would have had different (more aggressive) aero setups at different circuits and only run a low drag configuration for Le Mans, increasing the maximum aero-limited speed there and there alone.

 

[AussieMitch]

Have you tried tuning the aero parts to prioritize speed over downforce?

I haven't as I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to tuning, I will take a look tomorrow though and experiment...

 

[AussieMitch]

Not just that, but the car didn't only race at Le Mans. It would have had different (more aggressive) aero setups at different circuits and only run a low drag configuration for Le Mans, increasing the maximum aero-limited speed there and there alone.

Yeah that makes sense, I will fiddle around with the aero and work out a better setup for Le Man's.

 

[br1x]

Not just that, but the car didn't only race at Le Mans. It would have had different (more aggressive) aero setups at different circuits and only run a low drag configuration for Le Mans, increasing the maximum aero-limited speed there and there alone.

.... and Hockenheim and to a degree Dijon.

The added front winglets for example where a later developement in the season that they fit on the cars in all rounds after round 4 in Dijon, with 2 different types of winglets being used depending on track and driver preference/setup.

Would really love to have that as an option in the game, the car looks so much more aggressive with them.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

A lot of people are screaming about the cars top speeds not being "equal to real life".

This is just plain wrong. The car's top speeds, such as the LMP1 cars which are the ones I have seen a lot of people talk about, is not equal to real life because what people are seeing IRL (more like, on footage) is the top speed these cars do on Le Mans.

People forget that in Le Mans, the cars have a low downforce setup, because that track barely has any low or medium speed corners. It has 4 insanely large straights (each one almost 2km long) which cover over half of the total track's distance.

However, the "stock" version of the game is a more balanced version of the car which is more suited for circuits like Silverstone or even Spa where cornering ability is much more favoured than outright top speed.

Try lowering downforce by a lot and you will see the 919 and TS050 reaching about 330 kph which was what they generally achieved IRL in Le Mans. And the lap times are also pretty similar. I lapped a TS050 around Le Mans and did a best time of 3:13.8, just 1 second faster than Kamui Kobayashi's lap record.
This applies to the CLK-GTR as well, just lower the downforce.

Also, as for the Group C cars... Those cars in qualifying would have about 900+ horsepower. Which was why some of them could achieve 400kph (like the Sauber C9 Mercedes).
During the race however, they were down to 700+, which is what the game is basing them on.

 

[br1x]

Try lowering downforce by a lot and you will see the 919 and TS050 reaching about 330 kph which was what they generally achieved IRL in Le Mans. And the lap times are also pretty similar. I lapped a TS050 around Le Mans and did a best time of 3:13.8, just 1 second faster than Kamui Kobayashi's lap record.
This applies to the CLK-GTR as well, just lower the downforce.

Idk, in my opinion that is a pretty big difference to real life. In real life the fastest lap ever in perfect conditions with slipstream on qualifying tyres with a lot of work put into setup in hour-long training sessions is slower than your time after spending presumably less than 3 hours with the car without any of these conditions met.

Same with the circuit experience for Circuit de la Sarthe in the Peugeot 908, the gold time is 3:18.700 if I remember correctly and on medium tyres even, while the fastest that car did in 2010 is a 3:19.700 in qualifying.

"Normal" people should not just go and match those times so easily in GT7 in my opinion, the aliens are probably going to be another 3-4 seconds faster at least when they should be the ones being close to the real time.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Idk, in my opinion that is a pretty big difference to real life. In real life the fastest lap ever in perfect conditions with slipstream on qualifying tyres with a lot of work put into setup in hour-long training sessions is slower than your time after spending presumably less than 3 hours with the car without any of these conditions met.

Same with the circuit experience for Circuit de la Sarthe in the Peugeot 908, the gold time is 3:18.700 if I remember correctly and on medium tyres even, while the fastest that car did in 2010 is a 3:19.700 in qualifying.

"Normal" people should not just go and match those times so easily in GT7 in my opinion, the aliens are probably going to be another 3-4 seconds faster at least when they should be the ones being close to the real time.

Not really... A great driver in a game is always going to be faster than even the best of the best drivers in real life.

In a game you have literally no fear of crashing and have unlimited testing, you don't feel the car bumps or feel any discomfort driving it (regarding G-forces), and you can use cameras to your advantage like chase cam and whatnot.
Plus, the game's cars and tracks' conditions are pretty much always perfect, unlike in real life where track and tyre temperatures can be different just by the minute, as well as the winds.

And normal players will not be able to do these times. I was an A+ rank driver in GT Sport and a veteran in Gran Turismo (played since day 1). While I don't want to brag much about myself, this is still the 1% of players in Gran Turismo (probably even less).

The "Aliens" are able to pull off those 2-3 seconds more because they absolutely murder the track limits of the game. IRL in some of those cases, your lap times would be invalidated, but the game forgives that.

Also, I may add here that Kamui's time was on medium tyres and he lifted and coast a bit in that lap, in particular in the 2 chicanes in Mulsanne. Where I was pretty much flatout (but to be honest, I could probably shave at least half a second more from that lap).

I have the "knowledge" to do a lap as good as the best drivers, in fact, many people have.
What most people don't have is the "balls of steel" to attack a corner flatout like real racing drivers IN REAL LIFE. Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear once proved this when he used GT4 to do a lap with the Honda NSX in Laguna Seca and then in real life he was almost 20 seconds slower, because he was just not brave enough to be on the throttle and he would brake way too early because fear would get the better of him, and the NSX in the hands of a real racing driver could've easily done the time he set in GT4.

 

[br1x]

Not really... A great driver in a game is always going to be faster than even the best of the best drivers in real life.

In a game you have literally no fear of crashing and have unlimited testing, you don't feel the car bumps or feel any discomfort driving it (regarding G-forces), and you can use cameras to your advantage like chase cam and whatnot.
Plus, the game's cars and tracks' conditions are pretty much always perfect, unlike in real life where track and tyre temperatures can be different just by the minute, as well as the winds.

And normal players will not be able to do these times. I was an A+ rank driver in GT Sport and a veteran in Gran Turismo (played since day 1). While I don't want to brag much about myself, this is still the 1% of players in Gran Turismo (probably even less).

The "Aliens" are able to pull off those 2-3 seconds more because they absolutely murder the track limits of the game. IRL in some of those cases, your lap times would be invalidated, but the game forgives that.

Also, I may add here that Kamui's time was on medium tyres and he lifted and coast a bit in that lap, in particular in the 2 chicanes in Mulsanne. Where I was pretty much flatout (but to be honest, I could probably shave at least half a second more from that lap).

I have the "knowledge" to do a lap as good as the best drivers, in fact, many people have.
What most people don't have is the "balls of steel" to attack a corner flatout like real racing drivers IN REAL LIFE. Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear once proved this when he used GT4 to do a lap with the Honda NSX in Laguna Seca and then in real life he was almost 20 seconds slower, because he was just not brave enough to be on the throttle and he would brake way too early because fear would get the better of him, and the NSX in the hands of a real racing driver could've easily done the time he set in GT4.

First of all, you are contradicting yourself here a bit. First you say the advantage in a game is that you just can just attack and have no fear of crashing and then you say real race drivers have the balls of steel to always attack corners flat out which is the same. That's what racedrivers do, they drive like you would in a game (minus the track limits).

Also the conditions he had were presumably even better than what you had in the game, with him having slipstream twice plus tailwind on the 3 main straights, which also shows in him being over 2 seconds faster than the other Toyota. I don't see why he would lift and coast anywhere as well other than managing battery to maximize it for the straights either.

And like I already mentioned as well, they are not just taking a car and do a few laps and that's it, they have practice sessions, adjust setup and driving style according to data from those sessions. It is just too easy to match or outdo these times in GT7 in my opinion.

Also aliens are not just faster because of track limits, that'd be a little too easy. Everyone can watch a replay and learn the lines they are using, still doesn't mean one can do those times as well.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

First of all, you are contradicting yourself here a bit. First you say the advantage in a game is that you just can just attack and have no fear of crashing and then you say real race drivers have the balls of steel to always attack corners flat out which is the same. That's what racedrivers do, they drive like you would in a game (minus the track limits).

Also the conditions he had were presumably even better than what you had in the game, with him having slipstream twice plus tailwind on the 3 main straights, which also shows in him being over 2 seconds faster than the other Toyota. I don't see why he would lift and coast anywhere as well other than managing battery to maximize it for the straights either.

And like I already mentioned as well, they are not just taking a car and do a few laps and that's it, they have practice sessions, adjust setup and driving style according to data from those sessions. It is just too easy to match or outdo these times in GT7 in my opinion.

Also aliens are not just faster because of track limits, that'd be a little too easy. Everyone can watch a replay and learn the lines they are using, still doesn't mean one can do those times as well.

I did not contradict anything. You can however say I didn't explain myself fully.

What I mean by the no fear, is that racing drivers have much, much less fear than the ordinary person, but it still exists, and they are also affected by G-forces, they get tired and it's much harder to concentrate fully than when you are sitting in your sofa watching it all on TV.


In the game, any game or even full simulator, a driver will always be able to set better times in them than IRL. It's just how it is. Your mentaility and concentration levels are immensely different, favouring the ones who do it virtually.


Plus, as I said, it's not easy to best those times. It took me quite a few crashes and laps to pull it off.
You yourself try and do a 3:14.7 with the Toyota TS050 and then come here to say it was easy...

It obviously isn't exactly like real life (nothing will ever be), but GT7 is as close as it could be for a simcade. One of the few things I can't badmouth about this game really.

 

[Pizzicato1985]

Just tried if for myself and with the custom race transmission and downforce at minimum I was able to reach 199mph (320kph) and with the medium turbo and slightly longer gearing I hit 220mph (354kph) at Sarthe with the Chicane.

So I'd say it's pretty close to what it was actually running at Le Mans.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear once proved this when he used GT4 to do a lap with the Honda NSX in Laguna Seca and then in real life he was almost 20 seconds slower, because he was just not brave enough to be on the throttle and he would brake way too early because fear would get the better of him,

I remember that episode and fully agree with him on that, playing on GT you do not have that "seat of the pants" experience, and the fear of bollixing it up IRL