Come in No. 10, your time is up...

[Touring Mars]

Could this spell the end for Gordon Brown as the British Prime Minister? (See also here and here). Gordon Brown has suffered from several major embarrassments and setbacks in byelections, and has seen Labour's lead in the polls slip dramatically in recent months, to the delight of David Cameron and the Tories (Conservatives, the major opposition party in the UK) at Westminster and to Alex Salmond and the Scottish National Party (in power in Scotland for the first time).

The SNP has overturned a Labour majority of 13,000 in what used to be one of Labour's safest seats in the deprived East End of Glasgow (compared to the Gaza Strip by some commentators), a massive swing on over 22%* on the general election result of 2005. Channel 4 News reported yesterday that a defeat for Labour here could trigger a vote of no confidence in Brown and/or a leadership challenge to oust Brown in time for the next General Election... (which will be in 2009/2010)... but you have to ask, if Brown went now, who could take over in time to raise the sort of support that Cameron has been working on since 2005?

I think the Guardian have hit the nail on the head by calling this result a "catastrophe" for Labour...

* In 2005, Labour won 43% more votes than SNP (Labour 60%, SNP 17%)... Now it's more like SNP 40%, Labour 38%!

 

[Sureboss]

Doesn't matter who is in charge. They are all as (in)competent as each other.

Did you see the article on Cameron having his bike nicked? That was funny. Subtly blaming the current government for it.

It's not really surprising though, Scotland seems hell bent on becoming independent of the rest of the country, and with the main concern being energy prices, people want a change.

I personally have no clue as to what's best for the country, I don't like Cameron, but then I don't like Gordie, he is too weak. Note the reimbursement of the millions who lost out on the abolition of the 10p tax rate. Though maybe that is more to do with Alastair Darling.

 

[ExigeEvan]

He did have an incredibly difficult first few months but now things are less dramatic and more long term he is still struggling to keep a good face. I can't see him stepping down, he's been waiting for this job for far too long, only a complete vote of no confidence will get rid of him.

It's not really surprising though, Scotland seems hell bent on becoming independent of the rest of the country, and with the main concern being energy prices, people want a change.

BBC News made it quite clear that at no point did the SNP make independance part of their campaign, it was more about tax.

 

[Sureboss]

That's the long-term goal though, surely?

I wouldn't say things are less dramatic, with the rising energy costs, price of fuel, slow-down in economy and rising food costs things will be tough for any leader.

On energy costs, I think it is criminal that companies make a profit off of something that we need to survive. Should never have been taken out of nationalisation.

 

[daan]

Gordon Brown - Texture like sun.

 

[Scaff]

BBC News made it quite clear that at no point did the SNP make independance part of their campaign, it was more about tax.

And the SNP website says.....

The primary aim of the SNP is to take Scotland forward to independence.

Source - http://www.snp.org/node/240

Taken from the rather prominent section of the website called "Independence" .


Regards

Scaff

 

[GilesGuthrie]

It's interesting that the total vote count is less than Labour's previous majority.

Political beliefs aside, I really want to punch Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling in the face. Darling for his mindless mismanagement of traffic, and Brown for his ruinous stretch as Chancellor. He personally devalued most corporations' pension funds, and threw several major companies into serious financial trouble. His handling of the 10p tax rate has been terrible. He should either have the rate, or not. What we don't need is a policy decision that's then effectively undone by a bunch of mealy mouthed promises to vociferous pressure groups. It's not surprising we're taxed so heavily: this process of taking it away and then giving it back through the widely abused Tax Credits system has caused the Department for Revenue and Customs to grow into an ungovernable behemoth.

We really need some clarity of government. Set the rules, and then apply them to all. Creating special exemptions is nothing but craven toadying to anyone threatening to withdraw their support. It doesn't surprise me that government is in chaos. While there is such confusion about what to do, the only things that get done are unworkable or otherwise flat wrong.

 

[ExigeEvan]

And the SNP website says.....

The primary aim of the SNP is to take Scotland forward to independence.

Source - http://www.snp.org/node/240

Taken from the rather prominent section of the website called "Independence" .

Regards

Scaff

Very true, but even I know, and I'm only 18, that the majority of voters have very short memories. And unless the SNP is going to be shouting "independance" from the top of their voice at every speech no-one is going to see voting for him as a vote for independance.

 

[daan]

BNP? I hope that was a typo...

A vote for the SNP is basically a vote for independence.

 

[Duke]

On energy costs, I think it is criminal that companies make a profit off of something that we need to survive.

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

 

[Stevisiov]

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

Oh no, he's absolutly right, ASDA is the scourge of the earth....

 

[Scaff]

Very true, but even I know, and I'm only 18, that the majority of voters have very short memories. And unless the BNP is going to be shouting "independance" from the top of their voice at every speech no-one is going to see voting for him as a vote for independance.

Ditto's daan's comment on the BNP bit.

However I would pretty much bet that were you to ask any Scot what the SNP's main aim was you would get the same single answer. Scottish independence.

To be honest the SNP have spent pretty much the entire time they have existed (which has been since 1934) calling for independence. So yes most people do automatically link the two (and I would not be quite so quick to dismiss people as being as shallow or short-minded as you are implying - maybe that's just a problem with you young-uns ).


Regards

Scaff

 

[ExigeEvan]

BNP? I hope that was a typo...

Ditto's daan's comment on the BNP bit.

A big oops on that one, but yes, it was.

However I would pretty much bet that were you to ask any Scot what the SNP's main aim was you would get the same single answer. Scottish independence.

Well fair enough then. The opinion I formed of the situation is perhaps a tad off the mark then.

(and I would not be quite so quick to dismiss people as being as shallow or short-minded as you are implying - maybe that's just a problem with you young-uns ).

Then perhaps it is just people from Swansea and South Wales

My longer term evidence being that now Labour is not as golden as it once was many people are talking up the Conservative government. Yet it was the Conservatives that destroyed so much of the heavy industry in this part of the country and made the rest very precariousley balanced. I conceed this may be a simplistic view of how things went, but it's how they are nonetheless.

 

[Sureboss]

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

No, I don't think it's right that British Gas should make a profit of £500 Million.

Oh no, he's absolutly right, ASDA is the scourge of the earth....

I'd like to say, "That's different" (though to an extent it is, you can grow your own food, you can't grow your own gas), but it's not. Oh well, I still stand by my point on gas and electricity companies.

 

[YSSMAN]

So we're seeing a switch from a Labour to a Conservative government? For someone who finds the UK so intriguing, I need to do a better job of getting your politics straight...

 

[daan]

So we're seeing a switch from a Labour to a Conservative government? For someone who finds the UK so intriguing, I need to do a better job of getting your politics straight...

In England, it looks that way.

In Scotland, we're going from Labour to the SNP. The Conservatives don't get a look in up here.

 

[Robin]

Think is though the Labour and Conservitives are getting closer and closer on policy that they are almost identical...

People are simply going to vote for Cameron because they don't like Brown... which isnt really the way to win an election.

Gordon can still cling on until he is legally obliged to call an election which sucks because the public should have a say when people should go, not the houses of parliment (through a vote of no confidence).

Robin

 

[Sureboss]

Well they do have a say when people should go, it's called the election

On a personal note a Conservative government would probably benefit me as I live in such a conservative strong hold. No labour candidates in our area, I think there was one in East Worthing, forgotten her name, daughter of a famous politician, was it Mr Benn's daughter? Or am I thinking of him because he has a son as an MP?

It remains to be seen what would happen, but Gordie will be leaving office. Of that I think there is no doubt.

 

[Robin]

Well they do have a say when people should go, it's called the election

Yes we can have a say when they call an election but we can't decide when that election should happen, that falls to the PM or the MP's to decide.... If we could choose any day to have an election people would be voted in and out monthly!

Robin

 

[YSSMAN]

In England, it looks that way.

In Scotland, we're going from Labour to the SNP. The Conservatives don't get a look in up here.

Ah, I see. I was confused for a bit because I thought, for some reason, that Parliament in London controlled Scotland as well. I see that Scotland, Wales and North Ireland are all "independent" but can be overruled by the "big house" if necessary.

Politics in the UK are as much of a puzzle to me as they are in Canada. For some reason it just never "clicks" with me.

 

[daan]

Ah, I see. I was confused for a bit because I thought, for some reason, that Parliament in London controlled Scotland as well. I see that Scotland, Wales and North Ireland are all "independent" but can be overruled by the "big house" if necessary.

We can't make all our own decisions. There are certain things we're not allowed to do.

It's also a bone of contention that Scottish MPs can vote on English issues (English MPs are solely UK Parliament members, same as the Scottish MPs), but English MPs can't vote in the Scottish Parliament.

And the Welsh just have an assembly, which is something you get at school in the morning...

 

[ExigeEvan]

And the Welsh just have an assembly, which is something you get at school in the morning...

You illegitimate offsping!

But yes, it is abit weak. Though more Welsh-only laws are being put through except they still need accepting by UK parliment first. And we had the smoking ban before all of you lot (Or was it only England), so Ha!

 

[daan]

And we had the smoking ban before all of you lot (Or was it only England), so Ha!

We had it a year before you, so Ha! yourself.

EDIT: Bill Bailey: [about the Welsh assembly] "Right. Good morning. Later this morning we'll look at financial restructuring in the Rhondda, but first we've got a nice policeman here who's going to give a little talk on road safety".

 

[Scaff]

Quite true both the Scots and the Welsh gave in to the 'PC-liberal-lets-ban-everything-on-a-whim-brigade' before the English did.

Ever though I don't smoke anymore I strongly believe that it should have been the choice of the individual establishment rather than a law. Actually its unfar to suggest we fought longer to keep it, Westminster is just a lot more disorganised, so it just took longer.


Regards

Scaff

 

[daan]

Actually its unfar to suggest we fought longer to keep it, Westminster is just a lot more disorganised, so it just took longer.

You just like to try things out on us first....

 

[Sureboss]

Yes we can have a say when they call an election but we can't decide when that election should happen, that falls to the PM or the MP's to decide.... If we could choose any day to have an election people would be voted in and out monthly!

Robin

Isn't there some kind of parliamentary agreement that each term is 5 years?

That is a point, the political parties go in and out of favour like a pop band.

 

[YSSMAN]

The good news is that Europe has managed to figure out how to do multi-party systems, and in fact, do them quite well. When you're dealing with two broken parties as we are here in the US, well, its enough to pull your hair out.

 

[Sureboss]

Yup, instead of two broken parties, we have three broken parties, a bunch of racists, greenies who oppose things which are actually good in the long run and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

It's a perfect system tbf.

 

[Robin]

Isn't there some kind of parliamentary agreement that each term is 5 years?

Yeah but I meant calling one outside of that 5 year window... like now for instance. The public has no say.. it needs to go to a vote in parliment.

That is a point, the political parties go in and out of favour like a pop band.

lol could you imagine a new PM every month! madness!

Robin

 

[YSSMAN]

I find the way in which you are able to recall your PM an asset. Do something like that in the US and we could see a change in power every two years. Actually, it would have come in handy about four years ago. Oh well...