Comparisons between Hong Kong and Nurburgring.

[jagenigma]

I feel that these two courses are similar although I loathe one of them and I love the other respectively. Nurburgring is my test track for all of my cars because it requires Every skill you learn in throughout the whole GT series minus Rally racing. Nurburgring has a great balance of straights and turns that makes it the perfect race track even though it is the longest track of the game. It has a great flow.
Hong Kong on the other hand, is one of the shortest tracks of the game. It also requires a hell of a lot of skill but it lacks a flow that mostly all other race tracks in the game have. There is the loathed hairpin after that straight that just makes me want to It is very tedious to brake before the hairpin because you have to turn slightly while you are braking if you are in a highly tuned car. Sometimes I just end up crashing into the hairpin I utterly hate that turn.
So what do you guys think? Do you find similarities between these tracks?

 

[mafia_boy]

HELL NO!!

Nurburgring is a fast, flowing, long race circuit with more corners than anywhere, 147 corners to be exact and on no part of the circuit are you dealing with tight, hairy corners, or have walls either side of the track the whole way around.

Hong Kong is a short, tight, stop/start type of city track with concrete walls all over the track which offers no flow whatsoever and requires you to go bouncing off the ripple strips to get any sort of progress. The hairpin isn't the worry for me, it's the tightness of the circuit that doesn't allow any flow from corner to corner for me.

 

[slowman]

Unlike most folks, I actually like Hong Kong. Patience is the key here... if you're trying too hard you're going to stuff it up. Hong Kong rewards early braking and then powering out of the turn. It is a fun and rewarding track... if you can figure it out.

The best way I've found around the hairpin is to get down to first gear and then just nail the gas while preparing to countersteer. Short shift up to second immediately after the turn. I do the same thing at Paris on that tight turn just before the long straight.

 

[Rikki GT-R]

SIMILARITIES???

The two tracks couldn't be any more different if they tried. I do like Hong Kong, but I lurve Nürburgring.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

YEa, I'm with slowman...I happen to like Hong Kong. Mever understood why so many people hate it. The hairpin area is one of my faves simply because the Ai doesn't know how to take it..it slows down too much, and then gets confused about what gear it should be in. Classic place to catch up them and/or try and make a pass just before or after the hairpin.

Taking the 90 degree areas is also just a matter of learning the right angles. Braking can actually be minimal with some cars.

Some people are gonna wanna shoot me, but I actually wish Hong Kong made more appearances in GT4.

It's hard to compare Hong Kong and Nurburgring. The two tracks couldn't be more different (as nailed by others so far in this thread).

 

[dennisw]

I used to hate hongkong, now i know how to drive there.
And now i love it.

 

[Lucas]

I hate to race in Hong Kong It's impossible to get a clean pass with a slower car than the AI. The straight is a pain in the 🤬 when using a slower car.

 

[Aremburgkerve]

I really don't mind Hong Kong. It's a lovely technical track, and once you learn how to drive it, it's really rewarding. I always have some problems with the right-handed kink on the boardwalk, but apart from that, I enjoy threading a car through the tight corners. You've always got to be on the brakes early before the corners and take more exit speed with the HK track, otherwise you lose many seconds sliding and clipping barriers.

I agree with Parnelli as it could have been given more races throughout GT4, and it's an underrated track. I did enjoy the 18 lap GTWC race in the Professional Hall as it was a real challenge to pass and keep ahead of the Sauber C9 for the whole race. Driving around that track with a Sauber on your back bumper is really unnerving but was thoroughly enjoyable. 👍

Nurburgring is a completely different track that flows in leaps and bounds, but is similiar in the magnitude of the challenge it offers you. I enjoy both tracks, with HK a close second to Nurburgring, and I hope they both stay in the game for its next incarnation.

 

[GTsail]

I really don't mind Hong Kong. It's a lovely technical track, and once you learn how to drive it, it's really rewarding. I always have some problems with the right-handed kink on the boardwalk, but apart from that, I enjoy threading a car through the tight corners. You've always got to be on the brakes early before the corners and take more exit speed with the HK track, otherwise you lose many seconds sliding and clipping barriers.

I agree with Parnelli as it could have been given more races throughout GT4, and it's an underrated track. I did enjoy the 18 lap GTWC race in the Professional Hall as it was a real challenge to pass and keep ahead of the Sauber C9 for the whole race. Driving around that track with a Sauber on your back bumper is really unnerving but was thoroughly enjoyable. 👍

Nurburgring is a completely different track that flows in leaps and bounds, but is similiar in the magnitude of the challenge it offers you. I enjoy both tracks, with HK a close second to Nurburgring, and I hope they both stay in the game for its next incarnation.

I completely agree with Aremburgkerve and with what Parnelli Bone says above.

I rather like Hong Kong.

There are some tough One Make races where I have gotten a lot of practice on the track, so I am now quite good there. Like Aremburgkerve, my only problem spot is the kink on the boardwalk which I mess up from time to time.

Hong Kong is a track that rewards practice (like Nurburgring) so even though the tracks are dis-similar, both tracks allow substantial improvements in your lap times once you master the tracks (which I am still working on).

GTsail290

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yea, the most challenging part of Hong Kong is the boardwalk area. It's really tricky to try and keep as much speed as possible while navigating out of the bends and NOT hit the guardrail on the other side of the bend. Basically, you gotta find a good racing line/braking point and STICK to it. Any deviation means your car will clip the guardrail, and you'll lose speed.

 

[Austin343]

My least favorite tracks tend to be very slow and narrow ones bordered by walls. Hong Kong fits that description perfectly (as does Costa di Amalfi; I don't understand why so many people like it ), and when you add in how difficult it is to make clean laps and passes, I'm with the vast majority in disliking it. The curbs are especially annoying, too, as they really aren't usable, for whatever reason. It may be more realistic, but on most tracks in GT4 you can use even relatively tall curbs with little problem, like those on Nurburgring. I think the perfection and precision required to turn fast and clean laps is the biggest problem.

 

[GTsail]

YEa, I'm with slowman...I happen to like Hong Kong. Mever understood why so many people hate it. The hairpin area is one of my faves simply because the Ai doesn't know how to take it..it slows down too much, and then gets confused about what gear it should be in. Classic place to catch up them and/or try and make a pass just before or after the hairpin.

Taking the 90 degree areas is also just a matter of learning the right angles. Braking can actually be minimal with some cars.

SOme people are gonna wanna shoot me, but I actually wish HOng Kong made more appearances in GT4.

It's hard to compare Hong Kong and Nurburgring. The two tracks couldn't be more different (as nailed by others so far in this thread).

Like Parnelli Bone says, the hairpin is a great overtaking place since the AI struggles in this corner. Another good overtaking place is the left/right/left complex just before the start/finish line. You can always beat the competition thru here.

In the reverse direction, I still sometimes overcook the hairpin and end up rubbing off all my exit speed by rubbing the outside guardrail. The Armco is not your friend in this corner.

GTsail290

 

[Parnelli Bone]

My least favorite tracks tend to be very slow and narrow ones bordered by walls. Hong Kong fits that description perfectly (as does Costa di Amalfi; I don't understand why so many people like it ), and when you add in how difficult it is to make clean laps and passes,

I only like Costa d' Amalfi and Citta di Aria because they're so damn pretty. The challenge (the high, elevated blood pressure, etc) of driving these tracks is actually secondary to the fact that I simply think they're both eye-candy material.

I really wanna go to Europe, but it ain't gonna happen soon, so I get my Europe "fix" at tracks like these. If these 2 tracks were just a series of blank walls (with no scenery) I would hate them both with a passion.

I'm with the vast majority in disliking it. The curbs are especially annoying, too, as they really aren't usable, for whatever reason. It may be more realistic, but on most tracks in GT4 you can use even relatively tall curbs with little problem, like those on Nurburgring. I think the perfection and precision required to turn fast and clean laps is the biggest problem.

I occasionally drive over some of Hong Kong's curves, but only with the inside of my car (rather than all 4 tires). I always make sure to have a nice, soft tune with lots of ground clearance when I tackle Hong Kong.

 

[PF]

Costa di Amalfi; I don't understand why so many people like it

I couldn't disagree more, Austin. Capri is vastly different because wallriding is not much of an option there. First, you get penalties for too much contact and second, because taking an outside line on the course gives your opponent a (rare) passing opportunity. Some of the most thrilling races are there because of the limited passing opps; if in front you have to brake late and aggresively to avoid getting bumped or passed by the AI. If behind you have to stay right on their bumper, then avoid their early braking in order to take one of the few passing opportunities. I'll often find myself outbraking the AI just to draw dead level (eg turn 3 on normal, going up the hill) and drag race to the next corner; me with the better exit speed and them with the faster car. It becomes very tactical, a cat-and-mouse game where one mistake = reset.

Wallriding/bumping can be utilised much more at Hong Kong because a) no penalties and b) much faster straights which means a simple tap on the wall can be a tremendous advantage. Not that I employ these techniques, but with regard to track/event design, that's a significant difference at Hong Kong (and others) that I believe doesn't apply at Capri.

 

[dylansan]

I disagree. Capri is very prone to wallriding, as the corners are all very round, unlike Hong Kong where they are all hairpins. I prefer not to wallride at all, but still.

 

[mafia_boy]

Capri is as prone to wallriding as much as the Ice Arena is.

The difference is that Ice Arena is so easy to make the car swap ends so the rear smashes the wall and you power off from there, Capri only allows wallriding on certain sections (like the top of the hill S's, you can bounce off the wall at 140km/h and still keep going no penalty) but others like the tight hairpins and the first corner are areas you can nearly guarantee to get a penalty if you strike the wall.

That being said, I LOVE challenging the WRC cars on Costa with my stock Spec-C with 100hp NOS kit, that is SUCH a challenge to win and you have to time your nitrous bursts to keep up.

 

[Austin343]

Indeed, I can't say for sure about how easily the penalties are incurred in the regular Special Conditions events, but I know that in license test S4 with the Stratos rally car, you can wallride every corner without failing, and most by coming in at full speed. You gain a lot of time in each corner that way, too. (I only know that because I was curious, and at the time frustrated because I was trying to get the best time possible for me to enter at gtrp.de.)

Oddly, Citta di Aria is actually one of my favorite tracks. I think that much of it is due to the way cars seem to "slot in" to the correct line, which I find very satisfying to get right and the rest is due to the corners not being nearly as tight. I'm actually very good at driving very close to walls without hitting them when the corners are of the type there, whereas in the endless hairpins at Amalfi, it's very easy to get on the throttle an instant too soon and tap the wall on exit. The other problem is that some of the corners feel extremely "unnatural" in some way, particularly the long right-handers, which seem to be irregularly shaped in a way that's difficult to adapt to (these ones especially annoyed me in S4 as I kept grazing either the inside or the outside when I felt I was taking a correct line!). Lastly, I could really care less about the surroundings; the visuals at supposed "eye candy" tracks like Hong Kong have never appealed to me in the slightest.

I've really dragged this thread off-topic. So that I don't make a completely off-topic post, I find little similarity between Hong Kong and Nurburgring because of the nature of the corners at the two courses. Nurburgring is one of the faster tracks in the game, where Hong Kong is one of the slowest. The walls make Hong Kong difficult to stay clean on, while taking a corner slightly too fast at the Green Hell will only lead to a harmless and brief excursion onto the grass, often with only two tires.

 

[PF]

Okay, I knew I should have explained it better jsut after hitting 'reply'.

@Minicooper: I think the speed into/out of corners at HK is the difference, especially with the really narrow roads that you enter after the corner. You get a much greater advantage with exit speeds, which underpowered cars really need to mitigate the damage of the higher top speed of the AI on the longer straights at HK.

@Mafs: I'm surprised that you can get time off that corner, I only get passed when hitting it (though admittedly only hit it by accident). I suppose you could get a good downhill run from the extra speed from bouncing

Capri is as prone to wallriding as much as the Ice Arena is

Mate, that's an absurd statement and I think you should retract it immediately. The best races at Capri are when you're using pissant grip cars, where Ice Arena requires a drift mentality. Chalk and cheese, my friend.

However, talking about high Aspec value races at Capri, stock vs WRC is the way to go.

EDIT:
Hmmm, Austin, I wonder if it's about different driving styles. I seem to recall that you use Auto tranny, while I use a lot of engine braking, especially at Capri. I'd rate Aria close to Amalfi due to the narrow streets and few passing opps, but on reflection, the Aria turns seem less reliant on gear shifting than Amalfi. Could this be the difference?

 

[mafia_boy]

@Mafs: I'm surprised that you can get time off that corner, I only get passed when hitting it (though admittedly only hit it by accident). I suppose you could get a good downhill run from the extra speed from bouncing

Capri is as prone to wallriding as much as the Ice Arena is

Mate, that's an absurd statement and I think you should retract it immediately. The best races at Capri are when you're using pissant grip cars, where Ice Arena requires a drift mentality. Chalk and cheese, my friend.

However, talking about high Aspec value races at Capri, stock vs WRC is the way to go.

I won't retract it because it's true, I can wallride at BOTH Capri & Ice Arena very easily. The difference is the surface, Tarmac vs Ice. Call it differences in driving style PF but I prefer a drift method when I'm racing at Capri and can't race any other way there now!!

I'll slap that puppy sideways into a corner at 130km/h, while braking and dropping back 2 gears to keep that drift constant around the corner, much like I would if I was fooling around at GVS. Ice Arena I almost make a complete 180* and let the back bumper smash every wall on the course, basically copying the AI!! It's nothing to do with having 0 grip at Capri....I love having the GME R8 go around there because of the grip level I can attain there to keep up with much faster cars around the corners. The Spec-C is more a challenge thing because of A-spec pts, you get around the 160pt mark against the Subie WRC '03.

 

[PF]

Capri is as prone to wallriding as much as the Ice Arena is

That's the bit I disagree with (in bold). Gotta go out right now but look forward to continuing this later. Otherwise, fully agreed.

 

[senamic]

I personally prefer to drive Ice Arena clean Mafs. Take a Stratos Rally Car, whack some snowshoes on, and feel the satisfying results come through your wheel (or controller)! Capri can be fun to drift, I agree there. But I love nailing it, pushing the limits of grip but never getting slidey. But hey, I'm weird like that!

 

[PF]

I personally prefer to drive Ice Arena clean

Wow. That's pretty bloody impressive, can't even imagine doing it clean...

 

[senamic]

Its not too bad. Just brake before the corner, nose in, and then coutersteer and throttle to compensate!
Who am I kidding? It was damn difficult at first! You'll get the hang of it!

 

[Remy Zero]

The 'Ring is really trick to drive. Use too much of kerbs, and it punishes ur lap times.

Hong Kong...what have i got to say about that circuit besides being so extremely boring? Thank God there's no endurance race there.

 

[dennisw]

Thank God there's no endurance race there.

More like: Too bad there's no endurance race there.👍

 

[mafia_boy]

I personally prefer to drive Ice Arena clean Mafs. Take a Stratos Rally Car, whack some snowshoes on, and feel the satisfying results come through your wheel (or controller)! Capri can be fun to drift, I agree there. But I love nailing it, pushing the limits of grip but never getting slidey. But hey, I'm weird like that!

Ice Arena can be done that way very easily senamic and I totally agree it's enjoyable when you can do it. However, the blocking from the WRC car on Hard is extremely annoying and if you have your nose stuck in while you're infront, the AI decides to stick itself right beside you and because the AI can't drive for donkeys, you end up with him smacking your front end because your nose is perfectly near the apex and YOU get the penalty, which is almost impossible to catch up on that circuit.

There's only really two sections you can gain time without smacking walls and that is the section AFTER the hairpins, from into the double apex left to the first corner after the start finish. I actually prefer Chamonix for the ability to pass and be passed by the AI without fear of penalties while still going sideways sliding at 100km/h+! Chamonix developed my drift skills well on the DS2. 👍

Now to PF...

Bro, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. There are parts of that circuit where I can keep the gas flat and whip it around wallriding. I'm actually about 10 times better at it now than I was when I was a GT4 noob. It's shameful I know, but it's like riding a bike, you never forget how to do it.

The main thing we CAN agree on (and this is ALL of us) is that we don't endorse this type of driving behaviour as it's a form of cheating, driving clean is always the better way to drive and race people.

 

[chrisbroughton]

I enjoy Nurburgring loads, and Hong Kong is quite fun in a time trial or with racing cars.

But to compare them is pretty weird. I guess the only similarity is they both reward consistency as they are narrow, but the track which Nurburgring is most similar to is probably El Capitan, as both have a mixture of slow twisty sections and hair-raising fast sections with some blind crests.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Its not too bad. Just brake before the corner, nose in, and then coutersteer and throttle to compensate!
Who am I kidding? It was damn difficult at first! You'll get the hang of it!

When I first started doing Ice Arena races (especially reversed) I found myself occasionally powering-up so that I was wall-riding. This isn't entirely unrealistic, tho; because the "walls" at Ice Arena are curved...technically, your tires are riding the bottom of this curve...rather than your fenders & doors riding along the wall of ice itself. So I felt this was okay.

But now that I know Ice Arena a lot better, I find I actually CAN get a clean lap, and make my time lower than if I wall-ride. It's easier said than done, tho. Usually during a race, I can't help wind up smacking a wall somewhere.

 

[senamic]

I see where you two are coming from. Still damn satisfying to do the Hard rally without wall smack!

 

[superspeed]

I really don't mind Hong Kong. It's a lovely technical track, and once you learn how to drive it, it's really rewarding. I always have some problems with the right-handed kink on the boardwalk, but apart from that, I enjoy threading a car through the tight corners. You've always got to be on the brakes early before the corners and take more exit speed with the HK track, otherwise you lose many seconds sliding and clipping barriers.

I agree with Parnelli as it could have been given more races throughout GT4, and it's an underrated track. I did enjoy the 18 lap GTWC race in the Professional Hall as it was a real challenge to pass and keep ahead of the Sauber C9 for the whole race. Driving around that track with a Sauber on your back bumper is really unnerving but was thoroughly enjoyable. 👍

Nurburgring is a completely different track that flows in leaps and bounds, but is similiar in the magnitude of the challenge it offers you. I enjoy both tracks, with HK a close second to Nurburgring, and I hope they both stay in the game for its next incarnation.

I only like Costa d' Amalfi and Citta di Aria because they're so damn pretty. The challenge (the high, elevated blood pressure, etc) of driving these tracks is actually secondary to the fact that I simply think they're both eye-candy material.

I really wanna go to Europe, but it ain't gonna happen soon, so I get my Europe "fix" at tracks like these. If these 2 tracks were just a series of blank walls (with no scenery) I would hate them both with a passion.



I occasionally drive over some of Hong Kong's curves, but only with the inside of my car (rather than all 4 tires). I always make sure to have a nice, soft tune with lots of ground clearance when I tackle Hong Kong.

Now I know why I hated Hong Kong so much.

Yea and I'm good at Costa D' Amalfi because the of many times I've done it in the Special Conditions.


But,
Compare HK the 'Ring?!?!?
Are you a mad man?!?