Countersteer technique to save spinout

[City01]

Hello everyone,
What is the proper way to save your car from spinout, if accidentally applying too much throttle, without losing too much speed?

I tried to google it but do not know the correct answer. At the moment staring lose grip and spin on the back, turn the wheel on the opposite side for 90 degree (?) very quickly and return to center immediately (?). How about throttle? Someone say lift off throttle a little bit. Someone say do not lift throttle at all. Someone say brake and throttle together.

I would like to understand to proper way and the way that losing the least time. It is because if I keep practice myself but with the not best way, it is very hard to change the habit later.

P.S. please hold the answers for turn on TCS or avoid it at the beginning by proper applying throttle when cornering.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nando deBem]

Hello everyone,
What is the proper way to save your car from spinout, if accidentally applying too much throttle, without losing too much speed?

I tried to google it but do not know the correct answer. At the moment staring lose grip and spin on the back, turn the wheel on the opposite side for 90 degree (?) very quickly and return to center immediately (?). How about throttle? Someone say lift off throttle a little bit. Someone say do not lift throttle at all. Someone say brake and throttle together.

I would like to understand to proper way and the way that losing the least time. It is because if I keep practice myself but with the not best way, it is very hard to change the habit later.

P.S. please hold the answers for turn on TCS or avoid it at the beginning by proper applying throttle when cornering.

Thanks in advance.

Try to lift just a little bit. The LSD setup is different enough from full throttle to partial throttle, that you may be able to not need to lift everything.

Did it make sense?

 

[JeffR]

I am not sure to understand but I think it dépends if you use FR, MR, AWD and how do you brake / tail brake before cornering.

You probably know you weight is in front when you brake so if you turn while hard braking = bad idea.

Think about weight balance and press the gas pedal when you are on the apex.

** English is my 3rd langage so, sorry if I didnt understand correctly your question **

 

[Factor41]

The inputs you make will depend on the car, setup and situation. With a RWD car, giving it less gas will usually bring the back end in line, but coming off the throttle entirely can shift the weight forward too much if your car is softly sprung, and if you're countersteering, the extra weight on the front wheels can cause you to overcorrect and spin the other way. It's more about assessing the momentum and managing the shifting weight of the car than following a set procedure.

 

[freedom1104]

i think there is no standard procedure for this. you have to FEEL the car first.

 

[City01]

Thanks all for the reply. It is very helpful.

I have a further question. How do you sense the car reach the limit before the spin? By the sound from the tyre? By the FFB from the wheel? By the direction of the car turning/pointing?

 

[Nando deBem]

Thanks all for the reply. It is very helpful.

I have a further question. How do you sense the car reach the limit before the spin? By the sound from the tyre? By the FFB from the wheel? By the direction of the car turning/pointing?

For me, it’s a combination of the wheel trying to go the other way and the POV starting to rotate.

 

[GTWelsh]

Thanks all for the reply. It is very helpful.

I have a further question. How do you sense the car reach the limit before the spin? By the sound from the tyre? By the FFB from the wheel? By the direction of the car turning/pointing?

Each car gives you slightly different signals that it's at it's limit, in my experience. The Lamborghini GT3 used to oversteer and generally be unstable on entry, then understeer if you were smooth then push the front and understeer a little more on exit, slower corners it would oversteer but it was very progressive and easily handled with great exit grip. However it just didn't have the corner speed in the fast bends. The warning the Lambo gave was the transition from under to oversteer, this was gradual and throttle dependant so I could sit at the sweetspot and rocket round some slow-mid speed corners.

So I switched to the Nissan GTR GT3 and this thing is night and day different. It's ultra stable but much much more snappy when it does let go. It gives me far less warning. This car generally is very neutral and doesn't understeer much, it will oversteer around almost any corner if you're aggressive enough. It does however push the front around very slow corners and understeer, like it's very aero dependant. The transition to oversteer is very aggressive and hard to catch, there are very few warnings it's about to snap so very careful throttle input is needed. The main warning I use for slow corners is the sound. The diff seems to let a tyre spin slightly in slower corners when at partial throttle and this is usually not far away from the limit. The car also jerks forward sometimes at partial throttle, drivetrain lash or on-off-on diff-lockup I don't know, but this jerkyness can cause oversteer too. For fast corners I pretty much steer with the throttle and sit just before it starts to rotate (qualifying speed, race pace I'm much more reserved).

I know I've not exactly answered you question very directly, but those are my experiences, take what you will from them. DS4 user, so can't comment on FFB feel. The other major signal that the car is about to spin is just the knowledge of how much I could push it last time. Getting to know the cars limits without it even having to tell me anything helps a lot too.

 

[NommyNom]

listen for it, always expect the kick (or to be kicked lol), react quickly but not drastically. I recommend counter-steering with no brake or gas input till its relatively straightened out, then back on the gas. brake+oversteer=more oversteer. Once you get a good feel of it, you might be able to hold the gas and still correct it (circumstantial).

go into a drift lobby and learn on N400 cars with comfort tires, very easy and forgiving, that helped me a lot with car control (much snappier with racing tires but you'll be fine)

 

[FerrellJ]

How about throttle? Someone say lift off throttle a little bit. Someone say do not lift throttle at all. Someone say brake and throttle together.

It all depends on the car, setup, and the cause of the slide. In some cases you can try mashing both in an attempt to lock up all the tires and prevent the car from spinning further.

You're asking a very broad question for an extremely nuanced subject though- there are a ton of variables and ways to deal with it depending on the combination of factors. I know you said you didn't want to hear it but if you're going to put all this effort into learning something about car control, why not focus on not losing control in the first place? Can you identify why you are losing the car? Once you can be more specific about that, you should have an easier time figuring out how to regain control.

 

[zzz_pt]

i think there is no standard procedure for this. you have to FEEL the car first.

The problem with GTSport is exactly that. When driving on the limit of grip you can't properly feel the car / tires. This makes it way harder to save a car on a snap oversteer situation. I, at least, drive by muscle memory and visual inputs only. The feedback from the tires / car doesn't exist (or if it exists I can't feel it).

In Assetto Corsa, for example, it's harder to go fast because the physics are not "dumbed down". But when on the limits you have a way better chance to save a car because everything works as you expect and every car's behaviour is way more predictable. This not only makes it more enjoyable to push a car but also reduces the number of sudden spins you make out of nowhere. In GTS is very frustrating, at least for me, to drive consistently on my limits. My fastest laps are always close to or in the top10 but my lap times during race oscillate way more than, say, when racing in Assetto Corsa.

Might be just something I'm missing but this has been my experience since day one.

 

[Armand Manga]

The problem with GTSport is exactly that. When driving on the limit of grip you can't properly feel the car / tires. This makes it way harder to save a car on a snap oversteer situation. I, at least, drive by muscle memory and visual inputs only. The feedback from the tires / car doesn't exist (or if it exists I can't feel it).

In Assetto Corsa, for example, it's harder to go fast because the physics are not "dumbed down". But when on the limits you have a way better chance to save a car because everything works as you expect and every car's behaviour is way more predictable. This not only makes it more enjoyable to push a car but also reduces the number of sudden spins you make out of nowhere. In GTS is very frustrating, at least for me, to drive consistently on my limits. My fastest laps are always close to or in the top10 but my lap times during race oscillate way more than, say, when racing in Assetto Corsa.

Might be just something I'm missing but this has been my experience since day one.

Hahaha damn i thought i was the only one. Even though i started with GT, i've spent more time playing forza. The benefit Forza had over GT for me was more FEEL, even if the way cars handled was a little off. They need to turn the vibration/feedback for us DS4 users way up because i have little confidence in the cars. Like even my ML55amg IRL lets me know when it's about to rotate...

 

[Renrag39]

GT86 GRMN, Alsace, Comfort Soft or Sport Hard, N200.

Enjoy.
It worked for me on DS4, I'm now re-learning for the wheel. Slowly.
Alsace may not be everyone's cup of tea but has compression, lightness, varying speeds and angles to master.

Start with Sport Hard.

 

[Bruunz]

As stated above, there isn't one answer. The best tip i can give you is look ahead. I often catch myself looking at the apex during a corner which is wrong. You should be looking as far ahead as possible as you need your inputs to match where you want to go and not correct where you are at now as it is too late for that. Does that makes sense? Also think of the throttle and brake as oranges. If you want to fill a glass with juice you need to squeeze the orange. Smashing it will not get you juice in the glass

It might be easier to tell you what not to do.

Sharp inputs - the car is already unstable, significant movements will not help. They need to be gradual. If you aren't ready for it then its already too late. Looking ahead helps.

If its power out of a corner, then letting go the throttle is a sharp movement and will transfer weight to the front meaning you will be seeing behind you in no time. Gradual modulation of the throttle is needed with appropriate steering inputs.

Not being able to return the steering angle is another one and is the hardest parts as it requires an even quicker reflex. If you get grip and your wheels are not straight then you will fish tail off to the other side.

Entry oversteer under braking (mostly MR cars). Same as power over steer, no sharp movements. If the tail starts to step out during a trail brake then letting go of the break or slamming break will cause more movement in the wrong direction. Gradual inputs of the brake and steering is needed.

If you are not trail braking and encountering oversteer on entry then your turning inputs are too sharp for the speed you are travelling at. Break more sooner or start turning sooner.

Elevation change whilst turning (mainly MR cars i think) - turn 1 of Nurburgring GP and Dipper in Bathurst. Dont cut these corners. The closer to the apex your are the more of the elevation change is and the more unstable the car is.
Side note - The yamigiwa + miyabi interchange. Just be careful with throttle during this and be patient.

 

[City01]

Thanks again for all the detailed reply.

I know it is best to avoid at the first place and so no need to save, but sometimes, especially during battle, you want to push and then spin out could happen when push too hard.

For few times during battle, I see my opponent do shake left and right when accelating out the corner. I assume that he is pushing too hard but execute the counter steer to save it. (Am I right? Or it is just glith because of lag/latency? i.e. he has not done the saving actually from his view). But surprisingly he seems to not slow down at all. For me, if I spin and even save successfully, I lost a lot of speed. That’s why I think I have wrong technique and thus these questions.

 

[Shottah072]

You can feel the ffb go light just about when you start to lose rear traction. But also knowing the car/track combo, understanding car mechanics and looking for audio/visual cue's help in predicting when the back may step out. When you are going for feel alone you are going to be late most of the time. You need to know when and why the car is gonna step out so you can be ready to catch it and dont get caught out by it.