Detroit / L.A. Auto Shows

[1X83Z]

Here's some pictures from the Detroit auto show...

'04 Lexus RX330

'04 Toyota Sienna

'04 Acura TSX

'04 Lamborghini Murcielago Roadster

'04 Nissan Maxima

'04 Nissan Quest

'05 Chevrolet Equinox

And some from the L.A. auto show...

'03 Lancer Evolution ... starts at a little over $28,500.

Lancer Evolution Rally

'04 Audi A8L

'04 Pontiac GTO

The new Mustang was also unveiled, and looks almost exactly like the pictures PunkRock posted here.

 

[1X83Z]

After seeing the new Maxima and Quest, as well as the Sienna and RX330, I must admit I don't like the direction that automotive design is headed.

 

[-Fred-]

seen the new Rolls? now that's ugly with a capital U...

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by PunkRock
seen the new Rolls? now that's ugly with a capital U...

I haven't, but I'd love to, especially since it's the first Rolls under BMW. Have you got a picture?

 

[-Fred-]

a few, yeah...

i'd suggest Mr.Bangle to hang up the pen... first the 7, then the Z4, and now that... it makes the Scion Xb and the Element look like streamliners!

 

[1X83Z]

A few of those pictures don't work, but I get the idea.

Frankly, I think it looks elegant, and the exact kind of elegant that Rolls needs. The interior looks like my grandmother's 1977 Pontiac LeMans, only with leather (and the same amount of fake wood).

And how do you not like the Z4's design?! It's cutting edge...

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
And how do you not like the Z4's design?! It's cutting edge...

Keep in mind that the Z4 is trendy (a.k.a., "cutting edge"). Bangle's Fiat Coupe was quite popular way back when, but few would find it anything other than "yet another Fiat" these days.

As for the RR, those circular foglights are dead wrong. They don't fit. Neither does the oversized grill. The two-tone paint scheme is too reminiscent of the Maybach (not a good thing), resembling that same oversized slug.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Hooligan
Keep in mind that the Z4 is trendy (a.k.a., "cutting edge"). Bangle's Fiat Coupe was quite popular way back when, but few would find it anything other than "yet another Fiat" these days.

Because Fiat followed Bangle's lead! Although with the Doblo and Multipla, they've gone a weird way in car design, and compared with Fiat's current line (new Stilo is boring, and the Marea has to be one of the ugliest cars ever), the Coupe would be heralded as brilliant today.

As for the RR, those circular foglights are dead wrong. They don't fit. Neither does the oversized grill. The two-tone paint scheme is too reminiscent of the Maybach (not a good thing), resembling that same oversized slug.

The fog lights are a bit weird -- the top most picture is the one that didn't load for me, so I didn't notice them -- but how can you dis the grille? It looks so Rolls-Roycelike.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
Because Fiat followed Bangle's lead! Although with the Doblo and Multipla, they've gone a weird way in car design, and compared with Fiat's current line (new Stilo is boring, and the Marea has to be one of the ugliest cars ever), the Coupe would be heralded as brilliant today.

You missed the point. The other cars have nothing to do with how dated and weird the Fiat Coupe looks today. You can compare it to any other company's cars, and you'll get the same result.

The fog lights are a bit weird -- the top most picture is the one that didn't load for me, so I didn't notice them -- but how can you dis the grille? It looks so Rolls-Roycelike.

Because the grill is too big. It's out of proportion with the rest of the front end. Yes, it's the right shape and proportion for itself, but relative to the entire front end, it's about 50% oversized. Making the grill stand out like that is akin to painting the whole car Murcielago green: it's just not RR's style.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Hooligan
You missed the point. The other cars have nothing to do with how dated and weird the Fiat Coupe looks today. You can compare it to any other company's cars, and you'll get the same result.

Aha! But you missed the point of what I said! The only reason it would be considered dated today is because Fiat has taken Bangle's lead and has gone on to design other weird cars. If Fiat stuck to the same boring crap, it would look exciting.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
Aha! But you missed the point of what I said! The only reason it would be considered dated today is because Fiat has taken Bangle's lead and has gone on to design other weird cars. If Fiat stuck to the same boring crap, it would look exciting.

Further explanation: The E36 M3 still looks good today. The original Lotus Elise still looks good. The virtually unchanged Jaguar XJ still looks good after more than 20 years! The Fiat coupe looked dated (and odd) in three years.

Got it yet?

 

[Hooligan]

Detroit Auto Show

Aston Martin AMV8 Vantage
http://www.pistonheads.com/shows/detroit2003/article.asp?storyId=6045
Check it out: Someone at SEMA mad...apps26/4car/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=220&storyid=1945
Audi's Pikes Peak looks okay, but they could have chosen a far better color than baby blue to portray something that's supposed to be rugged. Again, looks like a SEMA workover: Audi kit for an X5.

(Read along with link below. It makes more sense that way.)
http://www.motortrend.com/autoshows/coverage/112_det03/
- Acura TSX...I have no words. I just don't care enough.
- The Maybach 62 platform heralds the arrival of Mercedes first four-wheeled luxury slug.
- Mitz's Endeavor is a scaled-up Montero? Maybe they should make a decent ride of the Montero first, then they can think about moving upmarket.
- Mitz's "Lancer Evolution" works for me. A turbo-4 and AWD always gets me drooling. I'm happy to be wrong about output: 271HP is a good deal more than the 240HP I was expecting.
- Yes, M5Power, the new Maxima sucks tailpipe. As does the Quest. Nissan had good, simple, inoffensive styling until Renault took over. I hate the French. They need to bathe more.
- I miss the AWD concept Pontiac Grand Prix from 2 years ago. I might have actually respected it. It might also have had a chance against me in GTP spec on the Bronx River Parkway.
- Scion.... My only positive thing to say is that I'm positive I will feel disgust with every one that turns up on the streets with garish colors and ill-fitting body kits. The last thing that crowd needed was more crappy cars to futz with.
- MT must have this wrong: they report the Impreza STi as having a 2.5L at 300HP. With an aluminum bonnet. And thinned glass. And no sound system. Don't get me wrong: I'm drooling...and there's swimming pool at my feet. It must be wrong. Why would the US version be so different than the UK/Japanese version? That cinches it. I'm getting on the next plane to Detroit.... (Okay, I'm really not. Anyone who's been there got the straight story?)
- VW R32 on sale in the US? Ford should be ashamed of themselves even more. The Focus RS would be a great competitor to the R32. They're losing market share as I type.
- Someone please explain why cars like the Buick Centieme are being made? Who asked for these? What market survey came up with these results? Are auto makers just meshing the SUV/sedan/sports car blueprints into a vat and forging whatever comes out? Back to design school! All of you! Yes, you too, Mercedes....
- 13.6L is a lot. A whole lot. More than I can count.
- Someone get me more pictures of the Chevrolet SS thingy. That looks hot. All I can see is the rear-3/4. I don't car if it's just a concept. It's the first Chevy in 15 years (Corvette aside) that I gave a damn about.
- Hemi's rule.
- Now that's a Marauder: Ditch that lame V8 in the Mercury and give it the 427 from the Ford 427 concept. Muscle cars mean big engines!
- Mini SUVs for mental midgets.
- A 500HP SVT Lighting can only mean a better SVT Lightning. "I have seeeeen the Lightning...."
- Honda's new pseudo-SUVs are only good at one thing: emulating a box.
- The whole idea of a Mercury-badged Mustang is gay. They couldn't even give it a different body. Mercury as a brand is dead. The whole division is redundant. Everything either looks better one line up, or is cheaper one line down.
- Mitz's Tarmac Spyder may actually bring some oomph back to the Eclipse. It's a bit tubby, a bit too soft at the shoulders, but some carving away at the clay model should fix that right quick. BTW, keep the wheelbase. That thing rocks. But, uh, ditch the A/V crap.
- I like everything Bob Lutz has done so far, and the Pontiac G6 is no exception. I think, however, he needs to pull more components from the non-US companies...like AWD!
- Toyota made a gayer version of the Lexus Minority Report car, and it looks just as useless on a podium as the Lexus version did.
- I do hope to see the FJ Cruiser, though. I miss the old-style Land Cruiser. It just so looked the part.


After checking C&D's Detroit update, the Subaru 2.5L turbo Impreza might be the real deal. At $30-something thousand, it looks like I'll have to do a few more installs to get this thing.
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/autoshows/2003/naias/2003_naias_update_two.xml

 

[Hooligan]

LA Auto Show

(It's a read along!)
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1766&p=27

- BMW's doing performance packages. Great. More ways to make someone think they can make an M3 from their 325i.
- I don't get the Alpina Roadster. A bit of a bodykit, a smaller, less powerful engine, and an auto transmission. And it costs more. Whaaaat?
- The only thing the Dodge Magnum does for me is remind me to ask "Just where did this market segment come from?"
- I didn't think the Pontiac GTO would look so similar to the Monaro, but I could swear all they did was swap grilles and badging. Not that that's a bad thing, but that's not a true GTO.
- The Aston DB AR1 looks sweet. I liked the DB7 Zagato, so the convertible version is an easy sell on me.
- The supercharged Thunderbird is the one that should have come out first. Without good thrust, the Thunderbird is just another pigeon.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Hooligan
Further explanation: The E36 M3 still looks good today. The original Lotus Elise still looks good. The virtually unchanged Jaguar XJ still looks good after more than 20 years! The Fiat coupe looked dated (and odd) in three years.

Got it yet?

But it wouldn't look dated had Fiat continued with the way they were designing cars. Also, I personally don't find it dated or anything near it.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Hooligan
- VW R32 on sale in the US? Ford should be ashamed of themselves even more. The Focus RS would be a great competitor to the R32. They're losing market share as I type.

I find this absurd also -- I can see why the RS Focus is UK only, but when it has direct competitors overseas, I don't see why Ford shouldn't be asking... why not?

By the way, until the January issue of 'car,' I had no idea what a Golf R32 was, and now, suddenly, it's to be for sale in the United States? Did Volkswagen truly do it this discreetly, or did I miss a lot?

Mercury as a brand is dead. The whole division is redundant. Everything either looks better one line up, or is cheaper one line down.

Oldsmobile is dead. Plymouth is dead. All of Mercury's formerly loyal customers are dead. Why won't Ford just kill it? Of course, that then begs the question 'why won't GM kill GMC and Buick?' As much as I like GMC, it's redundant also. Upmarket, but so is Mercury (the Mountaineer is better). Everything GMC sells is also a Chevrolet. And I don't get the point of Buick. Could someone explain it to me? Until the Rendezvous -- a minivan, despite Buick's insistence otherwise -- Buick sold four sedans, sharing two platforms, and none which did not have a at least three other GM vehicles also sharing the platform. Talk about redundancy.

 

[-Fred-]

Ford won't bring the RS over here, simply because the Zetec engine won't be used much longer. Not to mention you'd get a Mustang GT performing-alike car for thousands less than a Mustang.

There are plans of a 225hp, turbocharged Mazda engined Focus to come out sometimes this year, or in 04.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by PunkRock
Ford won't bring the RS over here, simply because the Zetec engine won't be used much longer. Not to mention you'd get a Mustang GT performing-alike car for thousands less than a Mustang.

But it'd be a totally different car for a very different market. The Mustang will get quite a lot of older customers, mostly interested in the muscle car-era leftover. The Focus appeals to younger buyers, thinking that a "sport compact" with a little more power is the best car in the world. The sales are here, just waiting to be picked up.

There are plans of a 225hp, turbocharged Mazda engined Focus to come out sometimes this year, or in 04.

Um, what? That doesn't make sense to me. Did Ford really have that much trouble getting 200HP+ out of the Zetec without relying on 97-octane gas? Did they really need to "outsource" the engine? Someone needs to fire all of Ford's small-engine engineers.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
By the way, until the January issue of 'car,' I had no idea what a Golf R32 was, and now, suddenly, it's to be for sale in the United States? Did Volkswagen truly do it this discreetly, or did I miss a lot?

I knew about the R32 (via EVO, but earlier issues) coming to the UK, and I was envious of yet another non-US-market great car. But the fact that it was coming stateside was totally new to me as of two days ago.

Oldsmobile is dead. Plymouth is dead. All of Mercury's formerly loyal customers are dead. Why won't Ford just kill it? Of course, that then begs the question 'why won't GM kill GMC and Buick?' As much as I like GMC, it's redundant also. Upmarket, but so is Mercury (the Mountaineer is better). Everything GMC sells is also a Chevrolet. And I don't get the point of Buick. Could someone explain it to me? Until the Rendezvous -- a minivan, despite Buick's insistence otherwise -- Buick sold four sedans, sharing two platforms, and none which did not have a at least three other GM vehicles also sharing the platform. Talk about redundancy.

Buick I can sort of see. If they really can bring back cars like the Roadmaster, then I see Buick as being a better Cadillac than Cadillac. (BTW, could you tell I liked the '49 Roadmaster? ) That, and they need Zagato or Callum to do something...nice for a Buick skin.