Digital Foundry interviews SMS

  • Thread starter boxox
  • 13 comments
  • 1,159 views
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-under-the-bonnect-shift-2-part-1

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-under-the-bonnect-shift-2-part-2

Fortunately:

A great many thanks go to the following Slightly Mad staff for their extensive help in putting this feature together: Andy Tudor (Design Lead), Ged Keaveney (Lead Programmer), Tim Mann (PS3 Lead), Jan Frishkorn (Vehicle Lead), Andreas Moll (Art Director), Doug Arnao (Physics Lead), Dr Stephen Baysted (Audio Lead), Rob Dibley (Render Lead), Peter Nicholls (Render), Stephen Viljoen (COO), Suzy Wallace (Producer).

... it's actually SMS people talking rather than canned talking points at a presser or through EA. Some good info :)
 
Yeah, it's 8 pages long and gets answers from the specific person at SMS relevant to each question. Gibz/DF/Eurogamer aren't a spam farm. However to quote some of the more obvious forum-bait... :)

Andy Tudor: [...] I wouldn't hire anyone with less than 20,000 Xbox gamerscore [...]

For SHIFT the analysis is very clear - other racing titles are 'car owning' games; they're about the grind for cash to then collect the car catalogue available. When it comes to the actual racing we feel they're lacking (cars never deviating from the racing line, unrealistic damage, lacklustre sensation of speed, feeling of 'loneliness' when driving due to a lack of atmosphere etc) so those are the areas we continue to pioneer in; the second-to-second core gameplay rather than the menus around it. The Helmet Cam, Night Racing, and Autolog speak specifically to that and are all either the best or first in their category.

[...]

At the core it has a detailed mathematical simulation of the physics forces involved, and layered on top it has the first-hand expertise and knowledge we get from real-world drivers and our own track day experience. There's no deliberate decision to 'dumb it down' here at all - the maths are accurate and the emotion is authentic. If it feels raw and fast and fun when racing then you have to question why you feel other titles are 'more realistic' when every tool we have at our disposal is saying otherwise.

[...]

Q: Forza and GT are 360 and PS3-specific of course, while SHIFT targets all the HD platforms. How does this add to the technological challenge?

Tom Nettleship: It was important to us that we achieve an equivalent game experience across all three platforms. While we do use a lot of platform-specific code to maintain a high frame-rate on the consoles, our dedication to cross-platform equivalence means that a feature we'd only be able to implement on one of the platforms couldn't be included. The only major exception to this was anti-aliasing, where we used the SPU-based MLAA approach on PS3, and more traditional MSAA on 360 and PC.

Q: Handing in a technologically advanced game these days requires an ability to get the most out of the unique architectures of the Xbox 360 and PS3. Both SKUs are very close to one another - what's your approach in dealing with the two consoles?

Tim Mann: We basically looked at what the required output was - be it damage, motion blur, HDR etc, and then at the initial source data for that stage. How we then got from one to the other was left to the platform-specific teams since (due to using completely different techniques on each platform) certain things took longer to process on one than the other; damage for example is a breeze on an SPU but takes longer on a 360 core. On the other hand, the 360 has a much quicker GPU in general so some graphical items had to be processed on SPU on PS3.

We didn't really impose any restrictions on the techniques that could be used, be it SPUs on PS3 or threads on 360 - just use what you have available.

[...]

Doug Arnao: The physics model is a full 3D scope engine capable of creating the car dynamics based on parameters taken from the specs of the real-life car - those provided by manufacturers directly and those provided from extensive research. Chassis, suspension, aerodynamics and tyres all generate their forces in 3D in real time. We run these models and recalculate the car state at 400 times per second which makes for a very convincing experience as nothing is left to guesswork.

The chassis model in itself is pretty extensive (approximately 150 parameters). Basics include weight and CG heights and positions and we model the weight and inertia of the sprung and un-sprung masses separately along with spin inertias of the un-sprung items (wheels, brake discs etc). There are 3D suspension geometry parameters for all inner/outer points of a double wishbone along with the tie-rod and damper placements.

The dampers themselves have slow and fast parameters (n/mm/sec) with adjustable switchover points and bump stops with their own stiffness settings. Differentials are the standard 'Salisbury' type with accel/deccel lock settings and visco electronic diffs are also modelled along with inputs for spring rate. Brake torque and brake heating are monitored on a per wheel basis in order to get the heating right for brake pad fade and disc glows.

The tyre model is based on the 'brush model' slip curve generation. Core parameters here include: cornering/braking/self-aligning stiffness, load and camber sensitivities, heating parameters, rolling resistance and base grip of the rubber in longitudinal/lateral directions. The tyre model therefore is class leading (if not the best) in the sim industry.

Finally, the engine model uses a standard rpm/torque curve lookup in 250rpm increments. Some parameters are: rotating inertia, accel friction drag, deccel drag, heating. Turbos are modelled as separate components with their own separate physics and can be bolted on to directly effect it as in the real world.

Once the physics are input, intensive testing takes place and the upgrades and final audio are balanced. All in all the complete production of one car takes two months (dependent on the number of visual upgrades and complexity) with usually two artists working on it from start to finish. The tools used are Autodesk 3DS Max for the 3D work, Photoshop for textures and our own proprietary toolchain for exporting, physics input, and functionality tweaking.

Q: In recreating the circuits, what kind of raw assets do you have access to? How do you go about making a track as mathematically precise as possible? Would you ever consider tweaking reality to make for a better playing game?

Andreas Moll: For existing tracks we mainly use GPS and CAD data which contain the track layout/width/elevation, armco placement and style, and gravel bed/kerb/tyrewall positions. Because many tracks are constantly changing in real life however, we then proceed to get the very latest reference data from photoshoots and research also in order to ensure the most up-to-date version of the track is recreated meticulously.

Of course we set out from the beginning to be as authentic as possible. However, what we found is that what is 'mathematically' correct in-game doesn't always necessarily 'feel' correct when playing due to the different field of view you are viewing the action from. Take Eau Rouge at Spa for instance - one of motoring's most iconic stretches of tarmac. Originally we input the CAD data and modelled the elevation change exactly as it is in real life. But when we came to play it it just didn't feel like the terrifying climb that it is in reality, mainly because you don't get the same physical feedback you have racing it in real life when lounging at home playing on the sofa.

In reality Eau Rouge is brutal - hitting the bottom of the climb makes your stomach lurch and your neck compress - all sensations that tell you of the elevation change and that can't be conveyed to the player via Dual Shock. So similar to other areas of the game where we simulate physical experiences (g-force head movement, crash dynamics) we enhance the technically correct data in order to recreate the real-world sensation. So in this case, we increased the elevation change, playing around with differing values until the game yielded the true feel - making Eau Rouge back into one of motorsport's most demanding and exciting corners. Of course, such enhancements are used sparingly only for cases where the 'emotional' experience is not being recreated by the maths - the 'Fuchsrohre' at Nordschleife and Bathurst for example.

[...]

Q: On the one hand you have real-life driving, on the other you have your simulation. What is the process of ensuring that your game is as close to the real thing as possible, while retaining the essential fun factor? Did you test drive every single car you put into the game?

Andy Tudor: I think the devil's in the details - SHIFT is a 'racing' game, not a 'driving' game. Therefore the feeling you may have had screaming down the motorway or hurtling down a particularly nice country road in a stock/factory car are very different to competitively and aggressively attacking a racing circuit in an upgraded/race-spec vehicle. The sounds are all different, the acceleration is much more intense, the weight of the car is lighter but the grip is better, the consequences for pushing too hard are dire, and there's a focused mental state you need to be in whilst your body is being punished by continual movement and adrenaline. This is the experience when you actually go and do it yourself in race-spec vehicles - which the team does at multiple points during the development process.

Simply playing other games or watching it on TV is not an option here as they will both give you false readings.

We always start therefore with real data that the car manufacturers give us and then plug it into our physics engine to give us a solid base. This is non-negotiable - there's nothing to interpret here or opinion to give, this is accurate to the manufacturer-spec. So you know when you're racing that it's the real deal. Through the process of creating the car, knowing what the engine is capable of, the sounds being recorded and getting out there to race it in real life the whole picture starts to be built up. Then we put it in the hands of real experts - both the insight of real-life racing drivers and community days where players get hands-on sessions.

Testing and iteration and further hands-on sessions occur using multiple platforms and gaming setups (wheels versus pads versus the infamous D-Box chair versus multiple-monitor setups etc) to get it to a place where we're confident we're delivering an authentic yet accessible experience.

It doesn't stop at cars either. Again, that idea of an 'X' helps here when it came to the feature of 'track degradation' and how the circuit gets chewed up over the course of a race. On TV, an incidental detail like the chunks of tire rubber thrown up by cars hardly ever show up (even in HD) but the feedback from the drivers was that those things are extremely prominent - and significant - to a driver since they have the potential to lose your grip on that portion of the track. When drafting an opponent in front too, they often bounce off the hood and hit the windscreen with a particular sound causing a distraction.

This kind of feedback is invaluable therefore since it gave our track artists a deeper sense of how prominent the black tire marbles should be against the gray tarmac compared to in-car and TV footage also being used as reference. It also gave a neat gameplay bonus too - now there was a risk/reward mechanism for drafting an opponent. Sure, you'll get a minor speed advantage but there's also the potential to be caught in a wake of his tires kicking up both gravel and tire rubber meaning a distraction as they hit the windscreen and a potential momentary loss of grip.
 
Very interesting that they took the mathematics from real cars and plugged into their physics model. Also like that they have tire models with the ever important tire temps which is crucial to car setups.

I have to agree with them that they have nailed the "racing" experience.
 
What's also interesting is that neither the interviewers nor the developers have mentioned the game's most notable feature: Input Lag. Even after the 1.02 patch, it has yet to be fixed, and despite the game's impressive tech, the game itself is essentially nonexistent with that lag intact.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=205159

Theres a rant thread and you should take it there... it wasnt enought that you had to open your own thread on the subject you also had to post your rant here...
Funny enough theres a couple of people that say the lag wasnt improved against alot of people that say it was...
 
Sorry tribolik but he is right. I still experience the lag, too. 0.3-0.5 sec. After patch 1.02, after resetting the DFGT, after everything.

So this, besides the freezes and the lost content/liveries issues, would also be a question I would personally like to see adressed to the devs. Its hurting the game a lot, I still cant drive very fast cars or very tricky cars because of it.
 
we believe that you get lag, (and its frustrating), and you must believe others dont... but its not going to help, just venting frustration.


lets try a poll, to see, if it is particular wheels...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=205213

if that doesnt work, then try to think of something else that is 'different'.

software is predictable stuff, but certains combinations of hardware, or actions can lead to undesirable behaviour.even SMS and thier QAs will struggle if they cannot reliably reproduce... so help them out, otherwise it is just a rant.
 
I definitely feel like the input lag has been resolved. Perhaps I am just used to the controls now? I have over two days time put into the game so perhaps that has more to do with my opinion.
 
Back