Discussions About History: Poll for Week 2

[Schwartz]

Okay, since this is my first attempt at this, I figured I'd just give an outline of what happened and let the discussion go any direction from there. So here goes:

On November 18th, 1978, in Jonestown, Guyana (formally called The Peoples Temple Agricultural Project) between 910 and 920 people commited an act of mass suicide by drinking cyanide laced Kool-aid (or Flavor-aid). What could convince over 900 people to take their own lives? Reverend James Warren Jones, more commonly known as Jim Jones.

The Peoples Temple started as a religious sector, but over time transformed into a cult. The Peoples Temple valued equality between all races and sexes, and were, in a nutshell, very socialist. They supported the communist Soviet Union and even considered moving their whole operation to the USSR.

Jonestown
Jonestown, Guyana (South America) is where the the majority of the People's Temple lived from 1976-1978. Reverend Jim Jones decided to move The People's Temple to Guyana from California after the United States government became suspicious that his religious sector had become a dangerous cult.

Note: I would not suggest Googling images of Jonestown as the results will show many disturbing pictures of all of the dead in the massacre.

 

[Submerged]

I think you need to expand a little bit more on the tipping point that made just over 900 people to voluntarily decide to commit suicide in this sect/cult.

 

[Liquid]

I like how they valued everybody so equally that they all decided to kill themselves and murder five innocents in the process.

 

[Schwartz]

I think you need to expand a little bit more on the tipping point that made just over 900 people to voluntarily decide to commit suicide in this sect/cult.

I didn't expand on it because I was thinking it would come up in the discussion. If I give everyone all of the information it leaves alot less to discuss. But I will expand on the "tipping point" since you asked.

Many people in who live in Jonestown described the condition they lived in as "concentration camp like" while others say it was "the best thing that ever happened to them." Jonestown was pretty much isolated from the rest of the world and citizens were forbidden to have contact with others unless given permission to do so (This cannot be confirmed as fact as some say "I could leave if I wanted to")

Suprisingly Jim Jones agreed to let Congressman Leo Ryan fly down to Guyana to investigate Jonestown. When he got to Jonestown, he was impressed on how happy everyone appeared. However, one night 16 people passed him notes stating that they would like to leave Jonestown and fly back to America with Congressman Ryan. Ryan agreed to take them.

On the day of Ryan's departure with him, a few reporters, and 16 members of the Peoples temple, went down to the airfield to board the plane back to the US. Jim Jones, feeling very paranoid at this time that the word of how bad things were in Jonestown would get out, ordered a few guards to follow all of the departing to the airfield. As they were getting ready to board, the guards popped out of the back of the truck and opened fire (I think they had AK-47's). They killed many, including Congressman Ryan. Some escaped into the surrounding area.

This only event only made Jim Jones more paranoid and afraid the Americans would come in and shut the whole operation down. These are some of the words he used to convince his people to commit sucide:

"Stop this hysterics. This is not the way for people who are Socialists or Communists to die. No way for us to die. We must die with some dignity. Don't be afraid to die, death is just stepping over into another plane. We didn't commit suicide; we committed an act of revolutionary suicide protesting the conditions of an inhumane world."

 

[watermelon punch]

Jonestown,,, I think of this as not so much an historical event as much as one of those embarrassing split moment blips in human subculture... a cautionary tale of stupidity & craziness.

Ooops... did I say that out loud?

 

[Liquid]

Jim Jones snip; "We didn't commit suicide; we committed an act of revolutionary suicide protesting the conditions of an inhumane world."

Then it's still suicide.

 

[phillgt2002]

Crazy. Interesting read though.

 

[a6m5]

The part about the congressman getting shot is like something out of a bad movie. He was right though. If he really did assassinate a U.S. Congressman, it was only a matter of time before the Marines showed up at their doorstep.

 

[W3H5]

I couldn't help myself....

Sorry.

 

[Doth1s]

Let us not forget that there were armed guards to help along some of the more hesitant members of the group.

 

[Schwartz]

Let us not forget that there were armed guards to help along some of the more hesitant members of the group.

That is true. You were injected with poison if you refused or if you were a baby. Only about 30 people escaped if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Schwartz]

I guess nobody wants to discuss? :/ This may not last for a second week.

Or if anyone could be bothered I'll just ask what you would like the topic to be for next week. Because this one obviously didn't capture enough attention.

 

[Dennisch]

I guess nobody wants to discuss? :/ This may not last for a second week.

Or if anyone could be bothered I'll just ask what you would like the topic to be for next week. Because this one obviously didn't capture enough attention.

If it wasn't for this post, I wouldn't understand the existence of this thread.

Maybe you should move this thread to the Opinions forum.
And maybe pick a better topic to discuss, this type of human failure is not really worth discussing.

 

[nascarlemanslmp]

900 people taking their lives O_o

 

[BobK]

Perhaps the reason for the lack of discussion is that the Wikipedia article on it is pretty good and doesn't really leave much left to say.

It was an interesting footnote in history, but aside from the shock when the news first broke about it, it was a pretty minor footnote. At least from my perspective; I didn't know anybody involved, didn't know anybody who knew anybody involved, hadn't really heard much about Jim Jones before this happened. Perhaps we could compare and contrast the group with the Heaven's Gate group?

 

[Schwartz]

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone have any other ideas for next week's topic? Once we have a few more suggestions I'll create a poll.

Also moved to the Opinions/Current Events section.

 

[watermelon punch]

Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone have any other ideas for next week's topic? Once we have a few more suggestions I'll create a poll.

Pony Express (happened in April - and it's interesting considering today's fax phone & internet)

Apollo 13 (happened in April)

LSD discovered April 1943

 

[Ross]

The Sinking of Titanic? It is the 100 year anniversary of it and it happened in April.

 

[Liquid]

The Sinking of Titanic? It is the 100 year anniversary of it and it happened in April.

There are conspiracies behind that. Like, how it was the Olympia was the ship that sunk and not the Titanic.

They've all been pretty much debunked, but it might still be fun to discuss.

 

[Ross]

There is also a Documentary thing about the Titanic here in the UK at the moment. I think it would be a great topic to discuss and I could put forward quite a few points.

 

[Emptyone]

There is also a Documentary thing about the Titanic here in the UK at the moment. I think it would be a great topic to discuss and I could put forward quite a few points.

Add radio 2 to that. They're going to do a talk about it or something from 11pm to 2:30 am ... From when the ship hit the iceberg to when it sank. Fairly apt, but few people will be up.

 

[watermelon punch]

Add radio 2 to that. They're going to do a talk about it or something from 11pm to 2:30 am ... From when the ship hit the iceberg to when it sank. Fairly apt, but few people will be up.

I think that's 6pm for me... is there a streaming version?

 

[Emptyone]

I think that's 6pm for me... is there a streaming version?

I'd hazard a guess there is a streaming version, though I'm not sure which night it is, just heard Evans mention it this morning. 11pm is in 20 minutes in UK

 

[Schwartz]

Here are all the suggestions I've gotten thus far:

Pony Express
Apollo 13
Discovery of LSD
Sinking of the Titanic

Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[Liquid]

Watergate.

 

[Dennisch]

Watergate.

This.

 

[Schwartz]

Great suggestion. Also it would be nice if there are topics that are not only about America but also international so we can attract more than just Americans.

 

[Dennisch]

How about the massacre of the 1972 Munich Olympics?

 

[Schwartz]

Poll created.

 

[Liquid]

Voted Watergate.

It's an interesting topic.