Do you avoid collisions?

[Bulldozer]

OK, I was going to ask this in another thread, but I already went off-topic twice so I thought I'd start a new one.

Background: I'm pretty new to GT3 and still learning to drive. But I found the two cheap shortcuts to victory - blow them away with horsepower, or run them off the road. Now the instructions that come with the game say something about braking later to overtake your opponent in the turns. Of course if you brake too late you end up smacking into a wall, lose almost all your speed and 4 cars blast by.

On the other hand, if there's an AI car in front of you, running into that doesn't slow you down nearly as much, in fact usually just enough to make the turn. Meanwhile the AI car has been knocked off their line, maybe into the wall, and loses a lot of time. If you're lucky or evil enough, you can cause a multi-car pile up and jump 3 or 4 positions.

It's just too easy to do, and - I have to confess - kind of fun. But it feels dirty and eventually I'd like to be able to win through skill instead of dirty tricks.

So, the Poll - What's your philosophy on "unfriendly driving?"

A) By Any Means Necessary. Just call me Stuntman Mike*
B) I'll fight dirty occasionally, if I'm behind in the last couple laps and that's what it takes.
c) I try not to, but sometimes the AI cars drive so badly they cut me off, and they should be punished accordingly.
d) I'm just trying to get a good line through the curves, I'll adjust to avoid a collision if possible, but a slightly bent fender isn't the end of the world.
e) I'll never hit another car. Ever. If they cut me off I'll brake to let them get by.

 

[Bulldozer]

*Stuntman Mike is the psycho driver in the "Death Proof" car in the second half of the movie "Grindhouse."

P.S. Feel free to share your philosophy on aggressive driving, how to outcorner the AI without colliding, how much I suck at GT3, how bad real-life drivers are in your city, or how much a real death-proof car would weigh - I'm thinking 4,250 kg.

 

[Duke]

On the other hand, if there's an AI car in front of you, running into that doesn't slow you down nearly as much, in fact usually just enough to make the turn. Meanwhile the AI car has been knocked off their line, maybe into the wall, and loses a lot of time. If you're lucky or evil enough, you can cause a multi-car pile up and jump 3 or 4 positions.

The thing I've found in GT3 and GT4 is this: If the AI hits you, you lose. If you hit the AI, you lose. Either way, they seem to recover immediately while I end up spinning or otherwise losing lots of time. And even if the guy I hit doesn't recover right away, somebody else passes us both from behind.

So, the Poll - What's your philosophy on "unfriendly driving?"

D) I'm just trying to get a good line through the curves, I'll adjust to avoid a collision if possible, but a slightly bent fender isn't the end of the world.

I try to avoid collisions. If I've legitimately taken the preferred line, and the AI driver turns into my door, I don't reset the race or try again. But by the same token I'll never deliberately ram the AI. I also don't do the late-braking divebomb pass - even though you can technically stake out the inside line before they do, I consider that shady at best. I prefer to hang back at the corner entry. Then, when the AI inevitably runs wide and does their cute little mid-corner-brake-adjust, I squirt past and make the pass on exit.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

It's just too easy to do, and - I have to confess - kind of fun. But it feels dirty and eventually I'd like to be able to win through skill instead of dirty trick

Hey at least you're honest! Not only that, but you got the right attitude towards the game if you eventually want to learn some skill! There's a reason why real-life race drivers and car enthusiasts of all types flock to Gran Turismo and Colin McRae rally...it's because they feel the way the cars in these games respond and drive are most life-like with no BS.

Anyways, I'll be the first to tell you in my early days I was way more obsessed with learning how to virtual-drive rather than slamming other cars out of my way. My fault was I would usually get as much horsepower as I could afford and blow the sims away. But eventually (after 2 or 3 months) I began to get bored by this. The rush was gone, essentially. I've always been a fan of car-racing so I began to attempt to make my game "closer". Instead of racing ahead of the Ai, I would travel with them till I got a break (or a "brake" ha ha) that put me ahead.

It is possible to out-corner and out brake the Ai, trust me..I'm not the only one who can do this by any means. To answer this thread, I'll say I never intentionally slam into Ai...but occasionally you can't help rub doors with them or tap their bumper because the first-person view GT3 requires of us means we can't always see another car till it's too late. So when this happens (if I tap or rub another car), I'll do my best to back-off. If I accidentally SLAM into someone, I'll restart the race because I hate sloppy replays!

Finally, I have a personal rule: if I beat the Ai into a corner cleanly (no "dive-bombs" that result in collisions), that's it...I will NOT let the Ai pass me unless they do so cleanly as well. Sometimes what happens is I'll out-corner them, but they'll rub into me. Fine...I usually let them unless they totally spin me or something. When that happens in real-life the race-marshal would hopefully throw a caution. In my game..it's more of a red-flag...RACE RESTART!

 

[Bulldozer]

I'm glad you brought up real races, Parnelli. I was curious about that. You said that the Race Marshall would throw a caution. Is that only if the collision results in someone going off the track or spinning out? Does it depend on whether the guy at fault looked like he was trying to avoid it or not? Do they adjust positions either to penalize the offender or restore a position to the guy who got bumped?

 

[Duke]

They won't throw an actual caution flag (yellow). That's reserved for when there is a collision with wrecked cars, debris, or something spilled on the track that makes it dangerous. What they will do is black flag an offending driver. That may mean he has to pull into the pits for a drive through, or a mandatory consultation, or he may be ejected from the race if he's had a couple of offenses.

 

[KAMKA-Z]

I do want a clean race. I'm not perfect. I've gotten a win or two I'm not proud of. For the most part, I do try to keep a clean line and not use other cars to slow me down for the corners. But like Parnelli says, It's easy to outbrake the AI.
When I was going through Arcade Mode, I was very evenly matched with the Corvette Grand Sport in the Nismo 400r. Several of those races were pretty physical. I traded a lot of paint in the Pro Vitz races too.

In the "special conditions" races in GT4, My Motto is: Anything I can get away with!

I'm glad you brought up real races, Parnelli. I was curious about that. You said that the Race Marshall would throw a caution. Is that only if the collision results in someone going off the track or spinning out? Does it depend on whether the guy at fault looked like he was trying to avoid it or not? Do they adjust positions either to penalize the offender or restore a position to the guy who got bumped?

Having spent lots of weekends in the 80s as an SCCA Flagging and Communications Volunteer, I think I can comment here. In road racing, if a car spins off the track, it is usually covered by a stationary 'local' yellow flag on that corner to inform coming drivers of the caution. If the car is on the track surface or imobile an 'impact area' there is a waving yellow with a stationary yellow at the previous corner. If several cars are involved and there's debris, or the track is partially blocked, it goes full course caution with a pace/safety car.
Corner workers are supposed to inform the Race Control/ Stewards of ANY contact between competitors. The Steward will then ask if it was intentional or if it was "just racing" and will make any decisions based on the reports from the corner stations. If a driver is driving too agressively they might have the Start/ Finish Flagger show a grasped (not furled) black flag to the competitor as a warning. A furled black flag means stop at the stewards stand in the pits next time by. They won't be commenting on your pretty BBS wheels.

 

[BobK]

Generally I'd go with

d) I'm just trying to get a good line through the curves, I'll adjust to avoid a collision if possible, but a slightly bent fender isn't the end of the world.

I don't dive into a turn too fast with the deliberate intention of using the AI as either supplemental brakes or a cornering aid. Nor do I seek retribution if one of them fouls me.

Usually.

Having said that, sometimes it is fun to blast them into the nether regions of the Great Motegi Desert.

 

[daan]

I always start out with the intention of driving cleanly, but if the AI start hitting me, then I tend to hit back...

In the video below, I was in the Speed 12. I got a bit out of shape, which was completely my fault, but then the Mercedes behind me started pushing me sideways. Red mist descends....

The revenge of the 12

I know the video is from GT4, not 3.

 

[barryl85]

Ha ha! Thats exactly like me - i intend to start out with a clean race - but if its getting ugly i'll make sure i get the AI where it hurts.

 

[Bulldozer]

Thanks for the info Duke and Kamka-Z.

daan, that video is great. Justice is Served! 👍

Now is it just me or is the craziest AI driving on the Amateur German Touring Car challenge? At first I thought they were just ignoring other cars and driving wherever they felt like. After playing a few more times through, I'm convinced they were trying to crash - especially into me! And at Laguna they were overshooting turns, sliding into the sand, smashing into barricades, just going nuts! I wonder if PD is commenting on German drivers?

It'd be funny if they programmed the AI to attack any non-German cars in that series. If you enter with a Mercedes, BMW, Opel - no problem. If you enter a Japanese car - Watch your butt!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Thanks for the info Duke and Kamka-Z.

daan, that video is great. Justice is Served! 👍

Now is it just me or is the craziest AI driving on the Amateur German Touring Car challenge? At first I thought they were just ignoring other cars and driving wherever they felt like. After playing a few more times through, I'm convinced they were trying to crash - especially into me! And at Laguna they were overshooting turns, sliding into the sand, smashing into barricades, just going nuts! I wonder if PD is commenting on German drivers?

It'd be funny if they programmed the AI to attack any non-German cars in that series. If you enter with a Mercedes, BMW, Opel - no problem. If you enter a Japanese car - Watch your butt!

Yes the German car challenge is one I remember as being tight-knit. The Opels and Mercs all have similar power so they tend to stick together and can beam you pretty good if you're not careful. GT3 is supposed to be the first of the series to incorporate "aggression" into the Ai's scope of behaviour...i.e. if you ram into them they will "remember" and try to get you back. I have noticed this. Also, I have noticed that if you drive cleanly, it seems the Ai also tries not to get into it with you. Could be my imagination, though.

 

[GT_Jim]

I almost always drive clean, because I want my win perfect. There are times I leave the event and race it again, because I collide into other cars or walls. There are many times of course that I collide, but it is always bad luck. To be honest, in GT4 I collide more often than in GT3.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I didn't look good at first and clicked "hell yea I'm a menace"

I'm not, I always avoid collisions, I just screwed up.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I almost always drive clean, because I want my win perfect. There are times I leave the event and race it again, because I collide into other cars or walls. There are many times of course that I collide, but it is always bad luck. To be honest, in GT4 I collide more often than in GT3.

I think I collide less in GT4 because I usually use the "partial" view as I drive (you know...the view that lets us see the car's hood but not the entire car). In GT3 you get 2 views: the first-person (you only see gauges) or third-person (you see the entire car as you drive but it is so damn BIG...) so I use the first-person since it has the cleanest cornering.

In Gt2 you can drive with a choice of 3 views...I would always choose the smaller 3rd-person one...this way I could see my entire car as I drove (your view follows the rear of the car) and this makes it easy to see what's going on around you....therefore I had the least collisions by far in GT2, as well as the best drifts. 💡

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Agreed, I love the "far" view in GT2. Wow PD really messed up. I avoid collisions sometimes, but when the AI pisses me off, theres more than just a little contact going around.

 

[Duke]

I can't drive from outside the car. I end up swerving back and forth like a drunken Parisian in a 2CV.

 

[Wolfe]

I'm pretty much option D -- I don't try to hit the AI, but I don't really care either.

When it comes to online racing in other games, though, I lean a bit more towards E, mostly for courtesy, but also because I love doing a bit of extra braking on the outside of corner entry, letting my inept opponents dive on the inside, and then watching them slam into the wall as I duck behind them and zip through the corner unscathed. Works really well in Project Gotham Racing.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I can't drive from outside the car. I end up swerving back and forth like a drunken Parisian in a 2CV.

I know...isn't that weird? First car in GT3 was a PT Curser. Try driving that lunk with a full-car view! I don't see how anyone can do it! Even little cars like Elises or Minis...every time I try and use 3rd-person
I wind up with higher lap times.

 

[Bulldozer]

It makes me wish there was some way to hook up extra TVs or monitors for peripheral views. Then you could stay in first person view and still see other cars through the corners of your eyes. I read an interview with one of the guys working on Forza 2 and their test system is set up that way. Apparently it'll be a feature that home users can take advantage of also - providing they have 3 TVs and 3 XBox 360s. Kind of extravagant, but I'm sure a few people will go for it.

I wonder if GT5 will have that function. Of course, the only thing worse than buying 3 XBoxes would be 3 PS3's.

Also, we get more of a sense of speed from the side views than from the front - scenery whipping past, all that stuff. I read that on the forums here, but I'm not sure who posted it.

 

[daan]

It makes me wish there was some way to hook up extra TVs or monitors for peripheral views.

You can. You just need 3 PS2s, 3 TVs and 3 copies of GT4, a switch and some network cables.

 

[Bulldozer]

You can. You just need 3 PS2s, 3 TVs and 3 copies of GT4, a switch and some network cables.

Really!? Hmm. Let me add this up...

Used PS2's are about $75.
I have a switch and cables.
I've got a couple of old 19" monitors but I'd need to buy a couple VGA converters ($50 each).
GT4 is down to $20.

I could actually do this for... 💡 $300!!!

The harder issue is spousal approval, "Honey, can I turn the guest bedroom into a gameroom with 3 screens? Oh and a bucket seat, steering wheel, and OOH! a 10,000 watt subwoofer 'cause I hate it when the muscle cars sound all whiny, and..."

I'd probably lose my copy of GT4 in the divorce settlement.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Having spent lots of weekends in the 80s as an SCCA Flagging and Communications Volunteer, I think I can comment here.

Forgot to comment on this the other day. That's awesome, I didn't know you were involved in r/l racing (or were involved). You'll be my go-to guy when I need to ask a question in the future on this subject. 👍

Really!? Hmm. Let me add this up...

Used PS2's are about $75.
I have a switch and cables.
I've got a couple of old 19" monitors but I'd need to buy a couple VGA converters ($50 each).
GT4 is down to $20.

I could actually do this for... 💡 $300!!!

The harder issue is spousal approval, "Honey, can I turn the guest bedroom into a gameroom with 3 screens? Oh and a bucket seat, steering wheel, and OOH! a 10,000 watt subwoofer 'cause I hate it when the muscle cars sound all whiny, and..."

I'd probably lose my copy of GT4 in the divorce settlement.

Just buy your wife a copy of "Sims 2". After a few hours of virtual interior decorating maybe she'll be buying extra gear!

 

[ilovethescudo]

avoid a collision? hell no. sometimes in the formula 1 test track tace, i like to drive backwards and slam into the other cars.

 

[Bulldozer]

Gotta admit, I did that once too. Got bashed around by AI, got , and mostly I just wanted to see what would happen.

Just a loud bash, some cars bounced around, and that was all. I don't know what else could happen. Once was enough.

 

[Duke]

Yeah, it's just not as much fun with no damage. When I used to play NASCAR98 on my computer, I would start a speedway race without qualifying so I was at the back of the grid. I'd run half a pace lap, then do a bootleg turn and run wide open back the other way so I met the field head on right about the start/finish as the green flag dropped and they were all bunched up and travelling fast. Although the graphics were not great, there was plenty of damage!

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Yeah, you guys should see this. That is so me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY0dK2_9Qbc

 

[Bulldozer]

Ha! Great video! He gets some good air with those old Beetles and hatchbacks. Nice ricochet action too.

 

[BobK]

Yeah, it's just not as much fun with no damage. When I used to play NASCAR98 on my computer, I would start a speedway race without qualifying so I was at the back of the grid. I'd run half a pace lap, then do a bootleg turn and run wide open back the other way so I met the field head on right about the start/finish as the green flag dropped and they were all bunched up and travelling fast. Although the graphics were not great, there was plenty of damage!

My sons and I used to do something like that in GT1. We'd enter the spot race on High Speed Ring with a maxxed out GTO or some such. First lap we'd go to the last turn or thereabouts, do a bootleg turn, then come back and do a head on crash with each of the AI cars. You then had to do another bootleg to get heading the right way then catch them all again and win the race. Not too hard, actually, with a bit of practice. The key thing was, though, you had to head-on all five of the AI cars or it didn't count.

 

[Wolfe]

I think every racing-game fan has done a "turn around backwards and hit the AI at full speed." It's just what you do when you're either bored or frustrated.