Do You Really Care About Little Details?

[JohnBM01]

Someone in the past made a thread called "What would make GT4 Perfect for you?" I didn't have a legitimate answer because there are several ways to make GT perfect for everyone. I wanted to see some, but the idea of cars rolling over and stuff will not be implemented in GT4. I'd especially want that for if I wipe out in a rally race. Either that, or if you run into the grass after the final chicane at Trial Mountain.

Of course, these certain questions either come out of curiousity or concern over what I read from other GTP members. This is more of concern here. So why do you think a lot of people make such complaints and such for what should be in GT4? Maybe I see everything, so that one person's opinion about a game is totally different from someone else's. For example, when G4TechTV show "X-Play" gave Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3 a "2 out of 5," they recommended "Need for Speed: Underground," which received a 4. Then the show "Judgment Day" from the same network said that while it was a close one, "Rallysport Challenge 2" is better than "Colin McRae 04." And I mean, I'm on the premise that GT can be enjoyed by everyone. It just pains me if someone sees a game this good can't be appreciated for someone who wants car damage, flipping out of control, or whatever else. What if someone says that "GT4's online play is nothing compared to XBOX Live (which will debut EA Sports online play this year)?" I mean, there is enough coming out this year in GT4 that almost everyone can appreciate even if they don't like racing or the GT series. So my question would be, why do you think people make such a big deal out of little details as such?

 

[j8mie]

...So my question would be, why do you think people make such a big deal out of little details as such?

At the end of the day, people want to be able to drive real life cars fast. 99% of us can't do that. So we have to do the next best thing...........in this case, play a GT game. We want real life physics, real life graphics, real life sounds, fully animation pit crews with all the trimmings. And not forgetting, life like opponents who make it fun and challenging to race against. The more and more of these little details there are in the game, the more like real life it will become.

Take exhaust flames. Will the game play any better with them in? Nope!. So why would you want them in the final game? Because you get them in real racings. Because someone decided that they should be in the game, because they make it more real to the player. Someone sat there animation them, and someone else took the time to decide when they should occur. That's why I think people want all these little details.

Maybe I'm just ramblining on again, but that's why I think people focus on those details so much.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[Uncle Harry]

There is a car show on cable TV called 5 from the UK.
They tested the new X3 BMW.
What did the tester dislike? The fact that it had no drink holders.
You may think that this no big deal, but it is rather like the subject in question.
Something very good can be let down by the smallest omission.
However each person will percieve the omission with a different level of importance.
To me the GT games have all "felt right" and small omissions do not worry me.
Sure I would like a better way to arrange my garage than GT3 offered.
Sure I would better AI and etc,etc,etc......
The most important thing will be how the game feels and I am sure PD will get it right for GT4 so I can spend the next 3 years pretending to myself that I am the worlds best driver as I have done for the past 6 years.
Please dont write in to say that you are better than me and challange me to proove it, as it is only in MY MIND that I see MYSELF as the BEST in this MAKE BELIEVE escapist world that the GT games have given me. I am sure lots of people out there are faster, better drivers than myself and I wish you all the best for future quests in GT4.

 

[JohnBM01]

It would be stupid if a game reviewer said that the Nurburgring Nords isn't the full length, since it was told to be within 5 seconds of the actual circuit. And when I played Le Mans 24 Hours, the circuit looked pretty complete. I'd love to see a GT4 rendition, even if only 6 cars race around there. You would think the game's memory capabilities don't make the game a slouch at certain areas of GT4. I mean, it's like when I watch "Sports Car Revolution" at the end. I mean, Kaz is obviously a muscle car guy. But give him something other than pure muscle, one of his complaints would be "if only it were in black..." And he said the same thing about that gray Honda CRX tuner car with the flamboyant looks. I mean, people have their reasons, but if you don't like a car or a game for one big reason, don't get into it. I mean, that would be like me saying that Le Mans 24 Hours would have been better if it had realtime reflections and more vibrant graphics. But you know how old that game is? It reflects on the Le Mans race of 2000. Even Ridge Racer V had non-reflecting mapping. I'm playing Gran Turismo 3, and the reflection mapping is there most of the time. Almost anything reflects in GT3 as you drive by. If your car is clean, you know what you're reflecting off of your car as you drive by. It's more realistic in GT3 compared to "Pro Race Driver," where the reflections were kind of off-key.

Anyhow, silly little details. I mean, I don't care about car damage. I don't care about pile-ups (would be more interesting). And all in all, I don't care about any forgotten aspect of a game. I mean, if you want that missing detail in a racing game, find one that you actually care about and leave us GT heads alone. Next!

 

[Eagle]

And when I played Le Mans 24 Hours, the circuit looked pretty complete.

On the version I played, my best lap time was in the 1:40 range, the real circuit should take 3:30 minimum.

That's a pretty big detail though, crushing the ratio of the entire circuit by 1:2 is pretty noticable. Missing the camber by a few degrees on one of the Nordschleife bankings won't be. Glaring mistakes, those are bad. Subtle errors, those happen.

Minor details are all about subtlety, and as Harry said, will be perceived differently by everyone. Why are they important to some people? Because being able to notice subtle things is what sets apart a real fan of something from someone with a passing interest, and to be able to pick those things is often rewarding in the knowledge not everyone else knows what you do. It's another aspect of personlisation really, it's something that makes you feel one step closer to the game if the creator has taken the time to include something subtle and you notice it - it shows you and he share the same love of details and the same knowledge of whatever the thing in question is.

 

[Lethalchem]

So my question would be, why do you think people make such a big deal out of little details as such?

Because we're all chomping at the bit to get at this game, and we're running out of things to talk about...so we focus on the small stuff.

When this game comes out, I have a hard time believing that any one of us on this board will say, "I KNEW they wouldn't put skid marks in! I just knew it! That's it, I'm selling my copy!" I think we're all going to love this game, regardless of whether the small details are in there or not. It's just going to have so many good points, I'm betting we'll all "suffer" through any perceived faults just fine, .

 

[Leo_Straight6]

The small details do matter. They always do in every situation. Even in car design! Those lovely dials staring at you that tell a story, maybe they were carried over from the previous model? They arouse memories of that, maybe the gear stick gate marked on the top lights up at night?

These are all nice touches

And I do care about these nice touches in GT4.

One that I would like to mention is this:
For those who are using DFP, if you have been playing GT Concept (not sure about GT3, might be the same!), if you do happen to spin out and you need to reverse, you do this, by pressing the triangle which has no pressure sensors!
(gas pedal not used!)

So you're always reversing at full throttle! Not good in a RWD car ay? I hope for GT4 that you will be able to shift downwards from *1* to *R*. Or make it pressing it twice to get *R* so people don't accidentally spin out during the race for changing down too many times, lol

 

[Greyout]

I mean...I mean...I mean...I mean...I mean...I mean...

your posts are always so entertaining...

why don't you tell us what you really mean?

 

[incubusnb]

Details are important in a Racing game, a Detail can shave an 1/8 of a second off your lap time, a detail can make or break how enjoyable something is to run in

Graphically, i don't care much, it looks good enough now, Gameplay, give me every detail possible, i want to forgt that this is a game because everything is so real and true to life, cars using gas, and different octane levels, different Oil types, things that go boom, the ability to actually work on your engine(ok, i'm going overboard now, but you get the point)

a Detail is an important thing, i like details, i notice details

 

[JohnBM01]

You could have ranted on me for something else, but decided to chain up my "I mean"s? Want to rant on me, just look at Code_kev. How many more people I have to put on my Ignore List?

Eagle, when I talked about LM24 hrs, I was talking about the PS2 version I played. The PS1 Le Mans version had lap times of more than 1:30.000 and less than 2:00.000. The PS2 version is between 3:30.000 and 4:00.000 in lap times. And when I played Ridge Racer V, I even noticed very low-res textures on the cars. But that didn't matter because technology wasn't that advanced at the time. So, even if EVERY car was low-res, I'd still love the damned gameplay.

And here's another math lesson:
gameplay > graphics

 

[code_kev]

I seem to be the target of Johns aggression for not kissing his ass , guess I don't qualify for the "much respect to" sig bw ahahahhaha. Anyway, why the attack on me? I guess it's because I see flaws.

 

[Eagle]

Who cares? Stick to the topic, the three of you.

 

[DevilGTx]

I think this is a useless discussion.
GT4 is all about the details.
Maybe the biggest thing GT3 lacked was...details.

So, yeah, I definitely care about the details.
Kaz and his gang didn't make hundreds of thousands of photographs of cars and tracks just to ignore the "little details."

Realism is the name of the game...that's what the details are for.

 

[R390 Lover]

i think thatt these little details make a game like GT4 nearly perfect.Without these details it wouldn´t be a hole game

 

[T5-R]

Well to me, the little details is like the icing on the cake. Without it the cake is nice, but with it mmm tasty

I think a good example (albeit a film) is Terminator 2, a great film by all means but to me atleast its the little details that make it special. For example when the T-1000 is walking through the cell door in the mental hospital & although he is 'liquid metal' his 9mm Pistol clinks on the railing

Details really just add to the experience, atmosphere & in some cases memorability (Hmmm bet thats spelt wrong, if its even a word...) of a game.

Every time i do a reverse maneuver in a GT game, normally when im messing or do a fun 'accidental ' 360 degree spin, the lack of reverse light just spoils it in replays/external cam. Just look @ the S2000 test replay in prologue.

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya!

Well to me, I would really care about the little details if it would really dissapoint me. Some of the little details such as the walls seem to have graphically "riggered" edges, I would get picky over it. Little details by now should be improved in my opinion. Everyone I am sure is expecting the graphical improvement from GT3 to GT4, even it its just a tiny tini improvement. But then there is me myself trying to pick off things that should have been fixed or put in or added. Like for example:

1. When the cars are being rubbed against the wall. Sparks should be flying.

2. I would like more lighting effects for the courses at night. More like MORE special effects plz!

3. Cardboarded crowds are so quiet....YEA! why not have sound clips of people cheering

hmmmm I feel like wut I call wanted to be done sounds more like BIG details instead of little details dont ya think!?

 

[Event]

Shaking Tailpipes would be cool, I would love to see the Zonda's tailpipes each vibrating seperately, more and more when the revs are high.

 

[Jay]

Yeah that would be great.

 

[Eagle]

I seem to be the target of Johns aggression for not kissing his ass , guess I don't qualify for the "much respect to" sig bw ahahahhaha. Anyway, why the attack on me? I guess it's because I see flaws.

I was just randomly looking for a thread on cars we're looking forward to driving, and stumbled across this: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41748. At a guess, I'd say that's one reason John thinks you're an ass, even if he won't come out and say it.

As for crowd noises, we discussed the actual noise a race car at pace generates in response to this idea, because you really won't be hearing much of a crowd a lot of the time, especially if you've made any modifications to lighten the car.

Visible vibrations, now there's an interesting thought. Bring out the detail nuts eh??

 

[Event]

Visible vibrations, now there's an interesting thought. Bring out the detail nuts eh??

Yes, especially on the Zonda! When I first saw the Zonda in GT3 3 years ago, I though that was the emblem! I never would have guessed that that is where the tailpipes were! This level of detail should seperate GT4 from other racin sims (even though there aren't many...)

 

[T5-R]

I bet if you tilted the Zonda 45 degrees @ one end, you could use it as an Anti-Aircraft weapon

 

[kart racer]

This has been a great read.And made me think if the little details are that important to me will I'm racing.During the race,the only thing that I seem to notice is the driving of the other cars,or lack of.The only thing that I would like to see DURING the race is if the al cars had some kind of impact sensor so that they would not put any car of the track or into the wall.Now if you hit them first then the should reply by the same.Rubbing is fine as that is part of racing but a full on hit because they deside not to brake is a no no.Now during the replays,it would be nice to see some of the little things.but to me it is not the end of the world if this dose not happen.

 

[zonekill]

Of course i care about little details!!!, thats why i as car lover like the GT series very much. The people at PD are trying to get almost every detail of driving a car in GT4 👍

When i see a car in real life thats also in GT then i see that PD has also put in that little detail from that car in GT.

It must be a hell of a job to put in so much little details but that makes GT and games in general, stand out from the crowd 👍

 

[35mm]

How about the rubber of the tyres acting like, well, real rubber?

During a corner - with normal tyres at least - the visible layer of rubber on the outside wheels should be thinner.
Sometimes the cars should even be running well on the tyres' side walls, with the rim almost scratching the tarmac.

This should be more pronounced on the front tyres in heavy-nosed FF cars and more balanced between front and rear tyres in MR and/or better sorted cars.

Well, you got the idea... That's something I'd really like to see.
Just my two cents on some meticulous details.

 

[Sprite]

If you all want details then look at the "Bb - Wagon thing " in GT4 and zoom in on the front of the car/wagon, and look at the badge and notice that there are even reflections on that small piece of the car now that is detail but dose it make the game more playable, I doubt it.

 

[Jay]

Maybe when some cars are cornering hard they could pop a back wheel in the air.

On a BM vid there is a Evo 8 corner hard on the first bend at Tsukuba and the rear right wheel lifts in the air a few inches. (not from hitting the ripple strips)

 

[35mm]

Yes! That too! I thought about that several times also.

For example, any Clio (Williams, RS/ClioSport/172, Cup, etc) will do that. Damn, even my Mk3 Golf does that.

If Gran Turismo has most of the physics right (body rigidity, suspension travel, spring rates, etc), some cars have to lift their back wheel!

More details that I would care about?
Continuing my previous post, there's also the variations on wheel camber during a corner as well to be added.


I'd better stop now. I'm obviously getting way too much excited...

 

[Gabkicks]

they coulda just added new tracks and cars. But they've optimised their coding and made gt4 look much better sofar from screenshots.. There are a few little things we all have mentioned we would like to see like reverse lights, backfire, physics, detailing of tracks and cars.. more smoke and lil things like that etc....

but requardless we will love GT4.. Like a ultra hot and frienldy and caring girlfriend missing a pinky finger. you'll be to busy doing other things to notice her Filangi difficiency. and no, i'm not sure if i spelled that right

 

[Dorifto]

"riggered"

At first glance I thought I read something else. 👎

Details are a good thing. The more details leads to a more realistic gaming experience.

 

[Eagle]

Like a ultra hot and frienldy and caring girlfriend missing a pinky finger. you'll be to busy doing other things to notice her Filangi difficiency. and no, i'm not sure if i spelled that right

I'm more concerned by the analogy than the spelling...

Details (mainly irregularities and anomalies) do indeed enhance realism, because as we all know, reality is far from perfectly formulaic.