Does Infiniti have a future?

[GranTurNismo]

Spent a lot of time thinking about this. As we all know, Infiniti is in quite a mess. Sales have been steadily declining for years, and its entire lineup, even it's newest CUV, looks and feels very outdated. Being that Nissan is entering a "rebuilding" phase and how poorly Infiniti has been doing in both North America and Europe, it makes many wonder if this marque will be around in the future.

I think it's time for Infiniti to call it quits. The brand is in too deep of a hole for it to truly be saved, and it's best that Nissan stops throwing money at it and instead focuses on bettering its own, vanilla lineup. Sadly, a pivotal reason why Infiniti has been so unsuccessful as of late is because of the laziness on Nissan's part. For whatever reason, Infiniti refuses to release any new products, and update their existing lineup. The Q70 and QX80 date back to 2011, the Q50 and QX60 date back to 2013, and the two newest arrivals, the QX30, and QX50 (both introduced in '17) have been poorly received, and do not feel fresh or modern. And all of the aforementioned models have received no major updates since their releases. There's been a bunch of Infiniti concepts that seem exciting and interesting released in the past few years, yet nothing has come of them, suggesting Infiniti has no plan. It's not as if Nissan is too small or poor to keep Infiniti relevant and regularly update its lineup. They're just inept and neglectful. In a free market, this is how you get forced out.

There are a plethora of other reasons why Infiniti has been doing so badly, aside from Nissan's lack of care for it. The model naming system is terrible and beyond confusing. Why make everything Q? The letter "Q" seems arbitrary and meaningless, as it has nothing to do with Infiniti or its models. The old naming system (G, M, Q, EX, FX, QX) worked much better. Not to mention, Infinitis of today simply aren't good looking. Their exterior styling is overly jagged, with origami-like creases, and the interiors feel old-fashioned and not differentiated enough from those of Nissans. The CVT transmissions are atrocious and have no place in a luxury vehicle. The engines also aren't modern or of quality, and their MPG figures are quite poor.

It's very evident that Nissan has gone down the "cheap price" rabbit-hole, and as such, Infiniti has greatly suffered. They have squeezed every last bit of juice out of this brand without doing anything meaningful to feed it since 2009-2010. They now have the oldest line-up of platforms of any comparable brand. Fifteen years ago, there was actually an effort to make Infiniti a true BMW or Lexus competitor. The G35, Q45, and FX45 were competitive enough of a product, and also a good value. Nowadays, who would buy a Q50 over a 3-Series, a Q70 over a 5-Series, or a 55k CUV with a CVT over an X3 or X5? And it's not even like Infinitis are decently priced, unlike Nissans. You're basically paying almost as much as you would for a BMW or Mercedes-Benz for a car that looks and feels like a 2011 model. Hell, even Cadillac and Acura are in a much better spot as a whole, and that's really saying something.

After all this, I wonder, what good is there in an Infiniti product? One can simply get a much better and more modern car from basically any other luxury brand.

tl;dr Infiniti sucks. Time to just scrap it altogether.

So, what is the community's thoughts about this? Should Infiniti stay or go?

 

[Grandea GTR]

OK. Was this needed?

Lemme ask you this:

Have you been in one, or driven one? At all?

Because the current ones are of pretty solid quality, and can hold their own pretty well in the market, like the QX60 and the new QX50.

 

[GTV0819]

Wew.

 

[Aphelion]

I actually personally like infinity more than base Nissan. Their styling has pretty much always been appealing to me, whereas Nissan has always looked cheap. However, I too am not sure I see why they exist in this day and age. They would need a full brand makeover to make them feel special again.

 

[GranTurNismo]

OK. Was this needed?

Lemme ask you this:

Have you been in one, or driven one? At all?

Because the current ones are of pretty solid quality, and can hold their own pretty well in the market, like the QX60 and the new QX50.

That was probably an attempt to “roast” me or disprove what I wrote, and the answer is yes, I have. I’ve ridden in my friend’s mom’s ‘18 QX60 many times. It was certainly nicer than my moms Grand Cherokee. But I’ve also ridden in a Lexus RX that’s a few years old, and I thought that one was more refined.

 

[CarGuru]

They always had amazing concepts like the Essence and the Emerge-E. The brand has so much potential, they have always been good on power. No doubt they will still be around, just needs more effort put into them.

 

[GTV0819]

They always had amazing concepts like the Essence and the Emerge-E. The brand has so much potential, they have always been good on power. No doubt they will still be around, just needs more effort put into them.

Yup, they just have to be maybe more aggressive in the competition.

At least they're still far from being like Mitsubishi, a brand which doesn't have any modern performance car nor a full-size SUV and what more since there's a lot missing in their current lineup, which is very different compared to their past offerings in the market.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I keep forgetting that the brand exists. Not many are sold in Australia and I personally don't think it has a future. It simply cannot compete with BMW and Mercedes, who are dominating the luxury sedan segment. Same with the SUV's. The brand name isn't familiar to many people, and that's probably for a good reason. I guarantee that most people, including myself, would buy a C Class Mercedes over an Infiniti Q50. In fact the Camry and the Mazda 6 would be considered before they'd even get to Infiniti.

 

[VXR]

I have seen maybe 5 of the small hatchbacks based on the Mercedes architecture here in the UK. I can easily see 5 each of the A3/1-series and A-Class on my hour commute each way.

They are totally nothing in the UK and I would suspect, the European market.

 

[CodeRedR51]

New stuff coming. QX60 in the next year or two. New version of the QX50. They, like many, are transitioning to electrified platforms. Unfortunately that takes time.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I have seen maybe 5 of the small hatchbacks based on the Mercedes architecture here in the UK. I can easily see 5 each of the A3/1-series and A-Class on my hour commute each way.

They are totally nothing in the UK and I would suspect, the European market.

We get the Mitsubishi, Nissan and Renault models instead, the company has covered pretty much all bases with those. Infiniti is a rare brand here. Can you even get them from the M/N/R dealerships or are they all personal imports?

 

[VXR]

We get the Mitsubishi, Nissan and Renault models instead, the company has covered pretty much all bases with those. Infiniti is a rare brand here. Can you even get them from the M/N/R dealerships or are they all personal imports?

Available from Nissan dealers, although I expect most are sourced as PCP from a central buying pool.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Does Infiniti have a future? - Of course. It will be around until Nissan stops producing their upper market cars in Japan.

The brand is in too deep of a hole for it to truly be saved, and it's best that Nissan stops throwing money at it and instead focuses on bettering its own, vanilla lineup.

Nissan isn't throwing any money at Infiniti - its just rebadging its higher end cars that are sold as Nissans in Japan and shipping them here.

For whatever reason, Infiniti refuses to release any new products, and update their existing lineup. The Q70 and QX80 date back to 2011, the Q50 and QX60 date back to 2013, and the two newest arrivals, the QX30, and QX50 (both introduced in '17) have been poorly received, and do not feel fresh or modern. And all of the aforementioned models have received no major updates since their releases.

That's a Nissan thing, not an Infiniti thing. And the QX30 is very modern - its a MB GLA.

There's been a bunch of Infiniti concepts that seem exciting and interesting released in the past few years, yet nothing has come of them, suggesting Infiniti has no plan.

The Q60 is identical to its concept car. Same with the QX50.

There are a plethora of other reasons why Infiniti has been doing so badly, aside from Nissan's lack of care for it. The model naming system is terrible and beyond confusing. Why make everything Q? The letter "Q" seems arbitrary and meaningless, as it has nothing to do with Infiniti or its models. The old naming system (G, M, Q, EX, FX, QX) worked much better.

Fine, Q is arbitrary, however their new naming system works perfectly fine. Q are their sedans/coupes, and QX are their high-chassis cars. The bigger the car, the larger the number after the Q(X).

Their exterior styling is overly jagged, with origami-like creases,

You can say that about a bunch of other brands - Lexus, BMW, Honda, Acura, etc.

The CVT transmissions are atrocious and have no place in a luxury vehicle.

CVT transmissions provide smooth acceleration. Smoothness is a key factor in luxury.

The engines also aren't modern or of quality, and their MPG figures are quite poor.

How are their engines not quality or modern? The VQ35 has the longest record of being on Ward's best engines. The VR30 is based off the engine in the GTR. Their variable compression VC-Turbo engine is one of the most advanced engines on the market. The VQ has bad MPG because it was designed to meet 2000's gas prices - you can still get 12L/100km out of it for 300hp.

It's very evident that Nissan has gone down the "cheap price" rabbit-hole, and as such, Infiniti has greatly suffered. They have squeezed every last bit of juice out of this brand without doing anything meaningful to feed it since 2009-2010. They now have the oldest line-up of platforms of any comparable brand.

They've squeezed every bit of juice out of fantastic car platforms from the 2000's (Front Midship, etc.) that they invested millions in, and done rightfully so. They offer the best lease rates among their competitors and have their own place in the market.

The G35, Q45, and FX45 were competitive enough of a product, and also a good value. Nowadays, who would buy a Q50 over a 3-Series, a Q70 over a 5-Series, or a 55k CUV with a CVT over an X3 or X5? And it's not even like Infinitis are decently priced, unlike Nissans. You're basically paying almost as much as you would for a BMW or Mercedes-Benz for a car that looks and feels like a 2011 model.

Why would I buy a Q50 over a 3-series? Because I plan on purchasing the car and not leasing it. Once that warranty is over, the Q50 is not gonna cost me an arm and a leg like the BMW will. I won't need to pay +$100 for a simple oil change. I don't need the fancy technology in the 3 series.

Also, Infinitis are not the same price as a BMW or a MB. Please check your facts before you misinform the public. A base Q50 runs $43,500 CAD, while a base 330i runs $50,000 CAD. The Q50 also has 50 more hp. The biweekly lease rates are on average lower by $100 CAD for an Infiniti. Same goes for the monthly finance rates.

Hell, even Cadillac and Acura are in a much better spot as a whole, and that's really saying something.

No they are not. Cadillac, Acura, and Infiniti sold similar amount of cars in 2018 (within 10,000 units). If anything, it is shameful that Acura and Cadillac are selling as many newly released cars as a brand which is selling "the oldest line-up of platforms of any comparable brand.".

After all this, I wonder, what good is there in an Infiniti product?

Value. No frills. Reliability. Maintenance costs. Technology (somewhat). Quality fit and finish.

So, what is the community's thoughts about this? Should Infiniti stay or go?

Infiniti stays. You go away for a bit while you do some more "research" on your friend's mom's Infiniti and come back when you realize that each car brand has its own valid business strategy. There's a reason why people do this stuff for a living.

 

[Joey D]

No they are not. Cadillac, Acura, and Infiniti sold similar amount of cars in 2018 (within 10,000 units). If anything, it is shameful that Acura and Cadillac are selling as many newly released cars as a brand which is selling "the oldest line-up of platforms of any comparable brand.".

2019 is a different story though. YTD, Infiniti is down 17% between '18 and '19. It also had a horrible September, which while already bad for the industry, was especially bad for Infiniti. On top of that, Infiniti as a whole is doing rather poorly in the US thanks to mismanagement from the top down (see Ghosn) according to Nikkei. Although, Nissan, in general, is in pretty bad shape and back in May, Hiroto Saikawa stated the company has "hit rock bottom".

While it's certainly fine to like Infiniti and even be a fan of its products, it's in no way doing well and is in real danger of folding completely in the US.

 

[VXR]

CVTs are smooth? Maybe on a flat road. It certainly doesn't sound smooth or drive smoothly in the Honda Jazz.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Infiniti's future hope is directly proportional to how much money Nissan is willing to throw at it. That seems like not much lately. They certainly won't survive on their brand alone, that's for sure. They were nothing before the G35 and have been pretty much nothing after it.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Not many are sold in Australia

Hence why they are pulling out of Australia.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Nissan isn't throwing any money at Infiniti - its just rebadging its higher end cars that are sold as Nissans in Japan and shipping them here.

That's only in the case of the Q50 and Q70. And even still, this can't always be the Infiniti works if it hopes to stay afloat. If Nissan is going to quit offering luxury sedans in Japan, then Infiniti should build sedans specifically for the US market. A bargain-priced, FWD Lexus ES competitor wouldn't be a bad start.

That's a Nissan thing, not an Infiniti thing. And the QX30 is very modern - its a MB GLA.

The QX30 may be newer but it is not competitive enough. It is significantly cheaper than the GLA, yet the GLA outsells it 3:1. Last year, 24k GLAs were sold while only 8k QX30s were sold. This speaks volumes about what the consumer would rather have.

CVT transmissions provide smooth acceleration. Smoothness is a key factor in luxury.

Are you kidding me? A CVT transmission belongs nowhere else but in a low-priced car like the Versa, Note, Sentra, Rogue, etc. Not in an Infiniti. A CVT would instantly make it uncompetitive against its rivals. Nissan's CVT is neither smooth or reliable, yet they still seem to stand by it. Also, Infiniti's engines (as well as in the Maxima and Murano) have too much torque for a CVT to perform adequately.

How are their engines not quality or modern? The VQ35 has the longest record of being on Ward's best engines. The VR30 is based off the engine in the GTR. Their variable compression VC-Turbo engine is one of the most advanced engines on the market. The VQ has bad MPG because it was designed to meet 2000's gas prices - you can still get 12L/100km out of it for 300hp.

Because they're old, simple as that. I never said they were bad engines, but they are no longer modern or competitive. It isn't 2009 anymore.

They've squeezed every bit of juice out of fantastic car platforms from the 2000's (Front Midship, etc.) that they invested millions in, and done rightfully so. They offer the best lease rates among their competitors and have their own place in the market.

And that is exactly the problem. By not investing in new platforms, sales will suffer, as platforms age, they increasingly become less competitive. This is not a sustainable approach. "Old GM" used to do this all the time. Take the Buick Park Avenue for example. The G-body was released in '95 and the PA came out in '97. In '97, it was a decently modern car, but by the mid-00s, without receiving any facelift or major upgrades, it was very dated compared to other cars in its class and sales tanked, bigly. This is ultimately a reason for GM's decline in the 2000s. Infiniti sadly seems to be going down this route.

Value. No frills. Reliability. Maintenance costs. Technology (somewhat). Quality fit and finish.

Current Infiniti products are by no means good value. "No frills" is the opposite of what one would want in today's luxury car market. If you're going to pay tens of thousands more dollars to buy a luxury-branded car, you're going to expect the most up-to-date tech, and for it to look and feel luxurious. This is part of the reason why Infiniti is failing. "Technology (somewhat)" says it all. You're even admitting that Infiniti products are lagging behind when it comes to tech.

Infiniti stays. You go away for a bit while you do some more "research" on your friend's mom's Infiniti and come back when you realize that each car brand has its own valid business strategy. There's a reason why people do this stuff for a living.

Sounds to me like this is more of a difference of opinion between us rather than you being more "informed" than me. I'm as informed as I need to be about this topic. Everything I have said can be backed up through data. I have made no sweeping generalizations nor have I said anything misleading. Infiniti products are simply not competitive anymore and I'm sorry this upsets you. Each car brand may have its own strategy, yes, but in a free market, only those with the best strategies survive and the weaker ones die out. This is what's happening with Infiniti, as well as dead car brands like Mercury, Lancia, Saturn, Rover, etc. They were priced out of the market because they weren't competitive.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The QX30 may be newer but it is not competitive enough. It is significantly cheaper than the GLA, yet the GLA outsells it 3:1. Last year, 24k GLAs were sold while only 8k QX30s were sold. This speaks volumes about what the consumer would rather have.

Well it's going away so..

Also, Infiniti's engines (as well as in the Maxima and Murano) have too much torque for a CVT to perform adequately.

I think it works best on a V6 to be honest. It needs the extra torque to not feel gutless. Also, chain type CVT preferred over belt type.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Quirks and Features just put out a video claiming Infiniti won't be around in the near future. I think he hits the nail on the head.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Nissan just moved Infiniti's headquarters back to Japan so they can concentrate on making the cars better. I doubt they would do that if they felt that the company wouldn't be around much longer.

 

[Tornado]

Or so they can concentrate on cutting costs further as the bloodbath at Nissan's corporate level continues.

 

[Liquid]

Infiniti will probably be confined to being a Japan-only marque like Mazda's Efini and Eunos. There is a unique culture in Japan in which these highly fractured and distinct marques all have an accepted place with their own tailored dealership and part networks.

I doubt it will last in other major markets though.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Infiniti will probably be confined to being a Japan-only marque like Mazda's Efini and Eunos. There is a unique culture in Japan in which these highly fractured and distinct marques all have an accepted place with their own tailored dealership and part networks.

I doubt it will last in other major markets though.

I'm not sure. Efini and Eunos are not exactly great examples for successful premium branding. Eunos lasted just 7 years during Peak Japan, and Efini even less. I don't think there is enough economy in Japan, especially now, to support Infiniti when all Infiniti does (practically) is re-badge higher-tier Japanese market Nissans in the first place. Even Eunos at least had bespoke models. I don't see Infiniti succeeding anywhere else but the US...and I don't see it succeeding in the US. If they ever had USP, it's long gone.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Infiniti: Hey, look at us! We have this cool new Eau Rouge concept car!

The Public: That looks interesting, when are you going to produce it?

Infiniti: Haha, No!

Also Infiniti: Why does nobody care about us!?

 

[GranTurNismo]

I think that if Infiniti does choose to stay, its first task must be to completely overhaul its crossover/SUV lineup. Out of all of the premium brands, Infiniti has the most abysmal lineup in this sector, without a doubt. There's the mid-size QX50 crossover, introduced 2017, which was been quite poorly received by reviewers, and then the larger QX60 and QX80, which aren't bad vehicles, but dated; the former is seven years old while the latter is nine years old. The sales figures for these cars show that most customers wouldn't mind spending a little extra for a much better vehicle overall.

Next, but less important, are the sedans. Infiniti should focus most of its energy on crafting a truly competent, RWD compact sedan, the successor to the Q50, especially since the Lexus IS is going to be discontinued soon without a replacement. In 2003, Infiniti had proven that they were able to give the BMW 3-Series a run for its money with the G35, so why can't they do it again in 2020? This is a product that needs to be meticulously designed and not half-assed, and its first goal is to be as stylish as possible. Unlike a BMW, no ridiculously large grille or anything like that. I'd say hold off on a true performance badge for now, but offer a sporty package in the same way Genesis is doing with the G70.

This may sound controversial, but I think it would be smart for Infiniti to go down the Lexus route and have their mid-size sedan be a value-priced FWD car that's based on the Nissan Maxima or maybe Altima. The Lexus ES is a strong seller, since it's a good-looking, well-equipped car priced at only $40-50k, and none of its buyers can even tell it's just a more luxurious Toyota Avalon.

 

[ScottPuss20]

In 2003, Infiniti had proven that they were able to give the BMW 3-Series a run for its money with the G35, so why can't they do it again in 2020? This is a product that needs to be meticulously designed and not half-assed, and its first goal is to be as stylish as possible. Unlike a BMW, no ridiculously large grille or anything like that. I'd say hold off on a true performance badge for now, but offer a sporty package in the same way Genesis is doing with the G70.

Well when you have arsehats at the helm of the company who cannot manage their own books, it's not possible for them to invest in a genuine competitor now.

 

[Prince.M5]

Will Infiniti be around in the next 10 years? Maybe, depending on how Nissan is doing. Do they have great cars? No, good cars yes but not exactly great. I've only been in the Q50 2.0 Turbo as a passenger some 2 years ago and I'll be honest, I do have soft spot for it. It's comfortable, build quality is decent and quite well equipped. For sure I don't know how it feels to be behind the wheel.

The problem starts here, in Malaysia at least. At MYR230,000 for a base model Q50, it's hard to compete because it's literally not much different to a Toyota Camry, Honda Accord or even Mazda 6 here which are cheaper. People here still look at it as just some slightly upmarket, more expensive but same 'ol Japanese car. And around that price, you can also get a base model 3 Series or a C Class. Even then, they're even losing to a much, much refined Lexus IS which strangely is far more expensive than the Q50. Something is wrong somewhere, and to be frank I don't know how they're going to do it especially when Nissan themselves are digging their own hole.

 

[Liquid]

I'm not sure. Efini and Eunos are not exactly great examples for successful premium branding.

I didn't say they were, they're just examples of Japan only marques, which I think could be where Infiniti is heading.

 

[Tornado]

Think an even better question is what is Nissan's future ten years from now. I mean the Japanese government would of course step in if things get particularly dire just like they did when Renault attempted to force the merger between the two. While I don't know their situation in Europe, Nissan sales in the US were in free fall even before the entire company's upper management collapsed, nevermind when the pandemic hit (of which Nissan seems to have been one of the hardest hit so far).

Nevermind Infiniti: Does Nissan USA as a whole escape from this on top of their general slide into "the brand you go to when even the domestics won't finance you" without reverting to a skeleton lineup like Mitsubishi has?