Drifting / Oversteer & Steering Wheels

[paulie_b]

Hi All,

Long time GT player, and oversteer enthusiast

Have been trying since release of Gt Sport to get my drifting dialled in. I have a G29 and no matter what car, set-up, track e.t.c e.t.c I just cannot seem to get nice clean oversteer in this game in the same way as I can in Assetto Corsa, which seems to have a much more realistic and manageable drifting.

It seems as soon as the car (any car) breaks into oversteer, it will just end up spinning out.

Is this a G29 issue? or can someone please advise if there is a setting in a sub-menu I can try.

Any/All help appreciated so I can get my smoke on!

 

[JacksHerer]

+1 for oversteer, that's what I love about driving games using a wheel. Feels so good when it goes good, feels thankful to be in a game when it goes bad.
I found drifting fun and natural in driveclub vr, but I had to practice the game in GTS.

I did the million points drift award using the road 911 car, initially I started with comfort tires. When I came back to it, I forgot to change tires and just used the stock ones with equal effect.
I used the nurb GP track as I like provoking and catching drifts when driving on that track.

Drifting in PSVR is lovely in the cobra

 

[cogz]

A have a question in the same vein as OP. How is oversteer ffb supposed to feel? I have G29 and I experimented different ffb values in a wide 180 degree turn (on 3rd gear), and increasing throttle until back end started slipping. There was zero effect on the steering wheel at the moment when the back tires started slipping and resulting in oversteer. I thought the ffb would give some warning signs before losing grip. Am I expecting too much?

 

[JacksHerer]

I think I feel the wheel go loose, but it might be my ears and eyes telling my brain that I've lost grip and I'm reacting to that.
I use default settings for wheel and sound and race music off so I can hear my tyres. I use the invisible car view, so my visual queue might be the scenery start to go sideways instead of coming at me.

 

[FerrellJ]

A lot of this might be down to the simple fact that minute modulation of the throttle is artificially difficult in GT Sport because of the pedal linearity, or rather, non-linearity.

Beyond that, the FFB isn't quite as nuanced/detailed as in some other games so feeling and adapting your steering inputs is also something of a guessing game.

 

[cogz]

I think I feel the wheel go loose, but it might be my ears and eyes telling my brain that I've lost grip and I'm reacting to that.
I use default settings for wheel and sound and race music off so I can hear my tyres. I use the invisible car view, so my visual queue might be the scenery start to go sideways instead of coming at me.

Thanks, that is how it goes for me too. In my little test I found there really are only the visual and audio cues . The wheel has the same force on it throughout the turn, also just before and after the rear tires loose traction.

I hope I did not sidetrack this too much from your drifting question paulie_b. I thought it was relevant to drifting and people always say not to make unnecessary threads on forums. :I

 

[JacksHerer]

apparently pedals have an option in wheel setups now, I forgot to look when I was on earlier.


Yeh - I never land on the throttle in the perfect place, I constantly giving slightly more or slightly less throttle, I think I was even dropping gears to stop from spinning when trying to deliberately drift.

 

[paulie_b]

So seems a pretty common problem, with apparently no solution!?

There are plenty of YouTube videos managing drifting to much greater success than I can achieve.

What's the secret! ?

As original post, I have mastered it in assetto corsa, but in GT I spin out pretty much every time.

 

[BreakerOhio]

+1 for oversteer, its what makes driving a rwd enjoyable and challenging.

I dont think GTS wants to favor the drifting and oversteer physics. They've chosen not to reward that style by not implementing how maximum grip is obtained when you carve a corner with a small amount of slip angle. Research it.

I know they can do oversteer right, they had it right in GTHD, GT5 Prologe, and GT5.

GTS 1.08 has one racecraft: follow the leader and dont oversteer or countersteer or you will lose pace. Theres a point when too much slip angle crosses a threshold of maximum tire grip and falls of to be slippery, but right now it's just all bad for any oversteer, which is not realistic tire modeling.

Currently I'm favoring PC2 3.03 build as they are improving this.

 

[BreakerOhio]

I found drifting fun and natural in driveclub vr, but I had to practice the game in GTS.

I agree. The ffb and oversteer handling with a wheel in Driveclub feel the best and natural. With my t300rs wheel I can drift in it instinctively and the tires carve the corners with grip accurately.

In GTS the drifts all want to push wide and the tires lose grip almost immediately all around once the oversteer begins.

When sliding on edge, the tires should be gaining grip due to the slip angle, not unless you over do it and go for huge drifts should the tire grip fall off so much like in GTS.

I still go back to playing Driveclub for its better ffb steering wheel implementation.

 

[Amaru]

Hi All,

Long time GT player, and oversteer enthusiast

Have been trying since release of Gt Sport to get my drifting dialled in. I have a G29 and no matter what car, set-up, track e.t.c e.t.c I just cannot seem to get nice clean oversteer in this game in the same way as I can in Assetto Corsa, which seems to have a much more realistic and manageable drifting.

It seems as soon as the car (any car) breaks into oversteer, it will just end up spinning out.

Is this a G29 issue? or can someone please advise if there is a setting in a sub-menu I can try.

Any/All help appreciated so I can get my smoke on!

I am yet to test my G29 for drifting due to not owning the gearshifter yet (bought G29 week or 2 ago because my T500RS is almost dead, lol).

As soon as i can get into GTS, i'll Grab you my GRMN '86 drift setup (i used to do nothing but drifting back in GT5).

One of the most important things to change on your settings will probably be your FFB settings where i find the default 0/5/5 FFB & steering controllers settings are beyond horroble for drifting - when i drift i use 7 for controller sensitivity, 8 for FFB torque and 2 for FFB sensitivity (7/8/2).

These FFB settings will give you a much more realistic feel to the "load" (weight-transfers) when the weight of the car switches between front & rear axle.

I used a T500RS with TH8RS shifter to create a drift setup which I find almost identical to my previous GT5 drift setups, as soon as my game allows me to connect to the servers, I'll grab you my setup.

I agree. The ffb and oversteer handling with a wheel in Driveclub feel the best and natural. With my t300rs wheel I can drift in it instinctively and the tires carve the corners with grip accurately.

In GTS the drifts all want to push wide and the tires lose grip almost immediately all around once the oversteer begins.

When sliding on edge, the tires should be gaining grip due to the slip angle, not unless you over do it and go for huge drifts should the tire grip fall off so much like in GTS.

I still go back to playing Driveclub for its better ffb steering wheel implementation.

Honestly, you probably have not played around with GTS setup's options long enough.

GTS is epic for drifting - more epic than GT5 - on the condition that you have set up your car & your FFB settings correctly. I am yet to test the G29 but the T500 w/ shifter handles exactly the same as GT5 & AC.

After 10minutes of fiddling around with a car setup, you can recreate GT5's drift-feeling.

Edit: in case you're online in GTS atm -I still can't connect- I have a replay shared to public of Suzuka East in a Toyota 86' GRMN where I do a complete lap with T500RS/clutch using my setup, if you can view it it'll give you an idea of what's possible in GTS until I can connect and fetch my setup lol. (In case anyone searches for the replay, player ID is Amaru-HeavyRain).

 

[BreakerOhio]

Honestly, you probably have not played around with GTS setup's options long enough.

GTS is epic for drifting - more epic than GT5 - on the condition that you have set up your car & your FFB settings correctly. I am yet to test the G29 but the T500 w/ shifter handles exactly the same as GT5 & AC.

After 10minutes of fiddling around with a car setup, you can recreate GT5's drift-feeling.

Maybe not long enough, but I have played around with the tuning.
I have been able to recreate the handling with downforce and LSD tweaks, but the stock cars should not have to be tinkered. That is still the difference from GT5. I even booted up GT5 again to compare, all the mission races and licenses feel better in GT5 and those cars are untuned.

 

[GTP_Remo]

If you are just grinding points for the 1million, head over to rally tracks.

 

[Amaru]

Maybe not long enough, but I have played around with the tuning.
I have been able to recreate the handling with downforce and LSD tweaks, but the stock cars should not have to be tinkered. That is still the difference from GT5. I even booted up GT5 again to compare, all the mission races and licenses feel better in GT5 and those cars are untuned.

There is a really simple explanation for this.

GTS does not have any stock cars in the way GT5 had. On a stock car in GT5 you have its stock "real-life-based" suspension with a balanced 1/1 anti-roll bar setup.

In GTS every single car -even road cars- have been given 'stock' racing suspensions that do NOT represent the "real-life-based" suspension of that car.

Every single car in GTS has this racing suspension with the very annoying understeer-happy 7/4 anti-roll bar.

This is why default suspension setups do not work as they do in GT5.

In GT5, I didn't need to tune my cars at all to drift them (given they had enough grunt).

Some footage from GT6 with a stock Ferrari 599 on CH: (I can't drift in GTS like this with a stock GTS car, the 7/4 anti roll bars kill it mid drift.)

 

[BreakerOhio]

There is a really simple explanation for this.

GTS does not have any stock cars in the way GT5 had. On a stock car in GT5 you have its stock "real-life-based" suspension with a balanced 1/1 anti-roll bar setup.

In GTS every single car -even road cars- have been given 'stock' racing suspensions that do NOT represent the "real-life-based" suspension of that car.

Every single car in GTS has this racing suspension with the very annoying understeer-happy 7/4 anti-roll bar.

This is why default suspension setups do not work as they do in GT5.

In GT5, I didn't need to tune my cars at all to drift them (given they had enough grunt).

Interesting theory, I like the theory. But...
I would think the stock cars from the dealership should reflect their stock form and handling characteristics.

My theory: I think more it is PD limiting or should I say normalizing the handling to be understeer favor because the game would collect better clean online racing data if everyone were to drive in a confined and structured way. They made is so that oversteering in GT Sport mode is to be discouraged, so you just spin out once at the limit, no balancing on the limit and backing off and back on. The GT Sport races online would look better without the cars driving on edge, less complaints from controller users saying wheel users have advantages, because to drive on the edge like in GT5, you need a wheel.

Proof of this? remember GT5 Prologue and GT5 leaderboards, all top drivers use wheels. I don't remember seeing controller drivers on par with wheel drivers.

Hopefully once they have collected enough data, and enough users have their levels rated for matching, the can correct the handling with a new patch. I have felt glimpses of it in the prior patches. But with the numerous patches, it keeps changing.

 

[Amaru]

I would think the stock cars from the dealership should reflect their stock form and handling characteristics.

I totally agree

My theory: I think more it is PD limiting or should I say normalizing the handling to be understeer favor because the game would collect better clean online racing data if everyone were to drive in a confined and structured way. They made is so that oversteering in GT Sport mode is to be discouraged, so you just spin out once at the limit, no balancing on the limit and backing off and back on. The GT Sport races online would look better without the cars driving on edge, less complaints from controller users saying wheel users have advantages, because to drive on the edge like in GT5, you need a wheel.

Proof of this? remember GT5 Prologue and GT5 leaderboards, all top drivers use wheels. I don't remember seeing controller drivers on par with wheel drivers.

Hopefully once they have collected enough data, and enough users have their levels rated for matching, the can correct the handling with a new patch. I have felt glimpses of it in the prior patches. But with the numerous patches, it keeps changing.

I can debunk this theory for GTS; ever since the closed beta -even with tuning allowed in setups for the daily races- pad users have been right up there competing with wheel users and also taking the #1 spot, I have some of them in my friends list.

I have a different theory of why there are fixed setups in daily races; when tuning was allowed there was a major bug that not always happened -it could happen that your setup did not work in the daily race when not participating in the warm-up pre-race and you'd be left with a car that didn't drive as it should at all.

By forcing fixed setups, this bug was removed/fixed.

Why forcing 7/4 anti-roll bars is a mystery to me but it does change GTS to understeer Turismo sport imo

 

[BreakerOhio]

I can debunk this theory for GTS; ever since the closed beta -even with tuning allowed in setups for the daily races- pad users have been right up there competing with wheel users and also taking the #1 spot, I have some of them in my fiends list.

What you mention supports my theory rather than debunk it.

The fact that you can see in GTS the pad users are just as competitive as wheels users is evidence of my point.

 

[Amaru]

What you mention supports my theory rather than debunk it.

The fact that you can see in GTS the pad users are just as competitive as wheels users is evidence of my point.

No it doesn't, GT5 & 6 also had pad users in top leaderboards

 

[BreakerOhio]

No it doesn't, GT5 & 6 also had pad users in top leaderboards

I don't recall pad users in the top percent of the fastest drivers in GT5 or GT5 Academy. You might have a few anomalies, but the top drivers are using wheels. We are seeing more pad drivers being competitive in GTS because advanced steering wheel techniques that require lateral grip / oversteer/ trail brake / slip angle / slight steering corrections to balance at the limit have been nerfed to normalize the playing field and allow pad users to be competitive. I understand why it is happening for the sake of the game and accessibility.

The theory is GTS is trying to be more accessible for the GT Sport part, so they have sacrificed the handling to behave a certain way that allows on the edge driving wheel techniques and pad techniques to be near equal. This means nerfing the racecraft techniques of driving with slip angle. You see, back in the GT5 physics the slip angle did not destroy your times, there is an optimal slip angle to extract the maximum grip from the tires, laterally in the corners, it is science and proven if you watch the best drivers operate the wheel. However to drive this way with a pad would be very difficulty if the front tires mirrors the pad stick, because you need to steer in and out at this limit. It is best done with a wheel and why wheel users dominate the leaderboards when this tire physics is implemented accurately back in GT5.

 

[Amaru]

I don't recall pad users in the top percent of the fastest drivers in GT5 or GT5 Academy. You might have a few anomalies, but the top drivers are using wheels. We are seeing more pad drivers being competitive in GTS because advanced steering wheel techniques that require lateral grip / oversteer/ trail brake / slip angle / slight steering corrections to balance at the limit have been nerfed to normalize the playing field and allow pad users to be competitive. I understand why it is happening for the sake of the game and accessibility.

The theory is GTS is trying to be more accessible for the GT Sport part, so they have sacrificed the handling to behave a certain way that allows on the edge driving wheel techniques and pad techniques to be near equal. This means nerfing the racecraft techniques of driving with slip angle. You see, back in the GT5 physics the slip angle did not destroy your times, there is an optimal slip angle to extract the maximum grip from the tires, laterally in the corners, it is science and proven if you watch the best drivers operate the wheel. However to drive this way with a pad would be very difficulty if the front tires mirrors the pad stick, because you need to steer in and out at this limit. It is best done with a wheel and why wheel users dominate the leaderboards when this tire physics is implemented accurately back in GT5.

Jann Mardenborough - GT Academy winner, was a pad user when he qualified for GT Academy finals...

That's just one example. I have seen them throughout every online GT in every top leaderboard mixed in between wheel users. Time trials & drift trials.

I understand what you mean but I don't think it's the case at all. They've (pad users) always been there (top leaderboards).

 

[BreakerOhio]

Jann Mardenborough - GT Academy winner, was a pad user when he qualified for GT Academy finals...

I think he was interviewed he used a ffb wheel
At the competition phase that was filmed, all the stations have wheels, no?

No point to argue that you can find an exception. Anomalies will exist.

 

[Amaru]

I think he was interviewed he used a ffb wheel
At the competition phase that was filmed, all the stations have wheels, no?

Final stage they all used wheels, but the qualifiers at home he used a pad, I've seen an interesting documentary about him somewhere, he was also using a pad there (PS3, GT6 I think he was playing).

 

[Sojiira]

Ive been struggling to get drifting down with the g29 but I've have been watching this guys drifting videos for motivation. His control is really good and he shows his tuning as well.

 

[BreakerOhio]

Don't mistake the above discussions to say that drifting is not possible. It certainly is possible.
My discussions revolve around the theory of what PD is trying to do with GT Sport when they have abandoned the better GT5 handling physics.

I'm afraid not everyone will understand what I mean by normalizing the field. Here is an analogy:
You and I are competing in some form of sport or competition, you are ambidextrous and can take advantage of both sides of your limbs. I am not so PD makes it normalized by disabling one side of your limbs in our competition so that we can only exploit use of one side of our limbs in what ever we are in sport in. Basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc... hope that makes sense what I mean by normalizing. It can be applied to tricks or skill moves, which would relate a bit better with driving techniques being nerfed.