Drinking While Pregnant - Illegal?

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Danoff

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Should it be illegal to drink substantial amounts of alcohol while pregnant? On the one hand, you have what constitutes abuse/disfigurement/induced retardation for the child. On the other hand, you have a difficult precedent that could lead to laws regarding who is allowed to procreate.

Your thoughts...
 
:odd: What!? How?! How does this have to deal with WHO procreates?! Isn't it a proven fact that drinking while pregnant will **** up the fetus's development?

On the other hand, you have a difficult precedent that could lead to laws regarding who is allowed to procreate.

I guess other than being selfish about their addiction, I don't understand this statement.
 
:odd: What!? How?! How does this have to deal with WHO procreates?! Isn't it a proven fact that drinking while pregnant will **** up the fetus's development?

I guess other than being selfish about their addiction, I don't understand this statement.

Well, if you say that one baby is genetically inferior to another and that genetic defects (in this case, caused by alcohol) are to be prevented by law - you could justify laws saying that people with certain genetic defects are not allowed to procreate.
 
This one is tough. One thing's for sure, though: it shouldn't be mandated by the federal government.

Sending the mom to jail would be stupid. Rehab for 9 months would be better.
 
This one is tough. One thing's for sure, though: it shouldn't be mandated by the federal government.

Sending the mom to jail would be stupid. Rehab for 9 months would be better.

I'll put you down for "legal".
 
:odd: What!? How?! How does this have to deal with WHO procreates?! Isn't it a proven fact that drinking while pregnant will **** up the fetus's development?



I guess other than being selfish about their addiction, I don't understand this statement.
This is simple. Why would you make drinking while pregnant illegal? Because it can cause birth defects, but is not 100% guaranteed, and the effects can range from uneven ears to full-fledged deformations or infant deaths.

Now, what if someone with genetic disorders wants to procreate? You know they have a 50% chance of passing it on, and if their mate has a similar disorder, as people seem drawn to others much like themselves, the risk increases. Can you tell them they can't have a child because they have a high risk of creating a child with deformities?


Of course, the other precedent is that some people who have had past issues may still cause issues with their baby even if they have stopped now. And since we are worried about outside influences creating problems do we also outlaw smoking, eating fish, eating fatty foods, walking through industrial zones, working in industrial facilities, etc. How many harmful to the fetus things can we outlaw? Where do you draw the line between negligence and lifestyle choice? A woman puts the fetus at additional risk the moment she gets out of bed. Can we mandate 9 months bed rest?
 
Well, if you say that one baby is genetically inferior to another and that genetic defects (in this case, caused by alcohol) are to be prevented by law - you could justify laws saying that people with certain genetic defects are not allowed to procreate.

Ok, I see you're point but ok... There's a law saying you can't drink and drive. Soo... shouldn't there be a law for being pregnant too? (without thinking the obvious no you shouldn't drink while pregnant, duh...)
 
Ok, I see you're point but ok... There's a law saying you can't drink and drive. Soo... shouldn't there be a law for being pregnant too? (without thinking the obvious no you shouldn't drink while pregnant, duh...)

Some of us might say that drinking and driving should be legal. You should attempt to justify this independently.
 
legal, certainly. But if it can be proven, then she shouldn't be able to get the free (taxpayer subsidized) healthcare and what not during or after her pregnancy.

Drinking/Smoking while pregnant(when they know they are pregnant) to me is willfully hurting the child. It's a biological fact that the baby comes first as far as what the mother consumes. With smoking, of course it's whatever gets to the blood stream.

Anyway, it's stupid, but yeah let it be legal.
 
Some of us might say that drinking and driving should be legal. You should attempt to justify this independently.

I don't see why I have to because it could be the same as... Would you let someone point a gun at you and pull the trigger?

This is simple. Why would you make drinking while pregnant illegal? Because it can cause birth defects, but is not 100% guaranteed, and the effects can range from uneven ears to full-fledged deformations or infant deaths.

Now, what if someone with genetic disorders wants to procreate? You know they have a 50% chance of passing it on, and if their mate has a similar disorder, as people seem drawn to others much like themselves, the risk increases. Can you tell them they can't have a child because they have a high risk of creating a child with deformities?


Of course, the other precedent is that some people who have had past issues may still cause issues with their baby even if they have stopped now. And since we are worried about outside influences creating problems do we also outlaw smoking, eating fish, eating fatty foods, walking through industrial zones, working in industrial facilities, etc. How many harmful to the fetus things can we outlaw? Where do you draw the line between negligence and lifestyle choice? A woman puts the fetus at additional risk the moment she gets out of bed. Can we mandate 9 months bed rest?

Thing is though the risk from drinking is unnecessary and preventable by simply not drinking while the risk from genetic defects is (for the lack of a better word) Natural, meaning there's no control of what happens. Yes, ANYTHING will harm the baby once the mother steps outside but there are degrees and while even eating bad food isn't great there are a lot of people that were born "normal".
 
I don't see why I have to because it could be the same as... Would you let someone point a gun at you and pull the trigger?

Tons of assumptions there. If drinking during pregnancy is equivalent to murder you first have to establish that alcoholic consumption during pregnancy results in a dead fetus. Then you'd have to claim that the fetus has the same rights as an adult. Finally, you'd have to claim that the act of drinking is just as much intentionally killing as pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is. Lots of work to do there. I look forward to reading it.

Thing is though the risk from drinking is unnecessary and preventable by simply not drinking while the risk from genetic defects is (for the lack of a better word).

Ok, it is unnecessary, does that mean we should strip that right from people? Just because it isn't necessary, does that mean we can tell the mother that she can't do it? It's not necessary for me to go to the movies either, but if you made it illegal you'd be infringing on my rights. Better have a damn good justification for that.
 
Thing is though the risk from drinking is unnecessary and preventable by simply not drinking while the risk from genetic defects is (for the lack of a better word) Natural, meaning there's no control of what happens. Yes, ANYTHING will harm the baby once the mother steps outside but there are degrees and while even eating bad food isn't great there are a lot of people that were born "normal".
I can point out plenty of people whose mothers drank while pregnant and are at least as normal as their parents are. Most of them are pretty stupid, but I chock that up more to nurture than nature, unless they are just genetically stupid.

Have you ever read one of those pregnancy guide books? There are entire lists of things not to do because they can increase the risk of a million different things. They even have lists of things not to do months before getting pregnant. Can we make all of that illegal too? None of them are necessary for teh mother to live a normal life, so doing any of them and creating that risk is unnecessary.
 
:odd: What!? How?! How does this have to deal with WHO procreates?! Isn't it a proven fact that drinking while pregnant will **** up the fetus's development?

No, it's not a proven fact. Certainly it may, but none that I know of that it will. In fact there's plenty of evidence to the contrary; ie, women who drank while pregnant who had normal children.

Personally, although I think it's a dumb thing to do, it shouldn't be illegal. A major concern is, where do you draw the line? If you make it illegal to drink while pregnant, what's next? Laws requiring you to use an oxygen mask when the ozone index is too high? Laws forbidding you from wearing high heels, since you're more likely to trip and harm the fetus?
 
Drinking and Driving is illegal, why should drinking and carrying a baby to term be legal?
 
One problem I have with making drinking while pregnant illegal is that the fetus doesn't have rights - so why should we be making a law that protects it, and where do such laws stop?

I'd say that it is completely legit for the child to press charges for disfigurement if it can be proven that the disfigurement was caused by a neglectful parent - but not until the child actually exists. If a pregnant woman drinks heavily and then aborts, no harm has been done.
 
I think the fetus has rights and that changes my perspective on the situation. This of course opens another debate. In light of this, I will leave this thread up to other's opinions.
 
One problem I have with making drinking while pregnant illegal is that the fetus doesn't have rights - so why should we be making a law that protects it, and where do such laws stop?

I'd say that it is completely legit for the child to press charges for disfigurement if it can be proven that the disfigurement was caused by a neglectful parent - but not until the child actually exists. If a pregnant woman drinks heavily and then aborts, no harm has been done.

Except for the fact that you just killed a human being. Fetuses, as human beings of independent genetic data, do have rights. Who are you to say that they don't, anyway? That's why I said this was a tough one.

If the mom gets sloshed and the kid turns out fine, no harm no foul. So, I don't think the act of drinking should be illegal, but redress for an afflicted child should be and is available through the courts. Innocent until proven guilty...
 
Drinking and Driving is illegal, why should drinking and carrying a baby to term be legal?
It's legal to drink and drive where I come from, if you remain under the legal blood alcohol limit anyway.

As for making drinking whilst pregnay illegal well I would be against that. Same with smoking (cigarettes and other stuff). I had the odd glass of alcohol (and other substances) whilst pregnant and my kids turned out fine (mostly :)).

It would be pretty hard to police something like this. To start with you can be a few months pregnant before you even know. You can be 4 - 5 months pregnant before anyone else can tell so how would a bar tender know not to serve you with alcohol. Would also be pretty embarrassing to refuse to serve someone you assumed was pregnant but in reality they were just fat.
 
My friend had no idea she was pregnant until she was six months gone. Being in her twenties at the time, she would regularly go on weekend drinking and smoking binges.
As soon as she discovered she was pregnant, she stopped the bingeing...her baby was born as a totally normal little girl and has had absolutely no health issues at all.
Her second daughter was born with epilepsy and has had issues with her breathing and brain function...this was a 'textbook' pregnancy with no drinking or smoking as it was planned.

I personally disagree with mothers drinking and smoking during pregnancy as there is evidence that it can harm the foetus but there is not enough evidence there to be able to create an official policed ban, making it illegal. There is evidence to suggest that the odd glass of alcohol whilst pregnant does no harm whatsoever, so where do we draw the line?
 
I think the fetus has rights and that changes my perspective on the situation. This of course opens another debate. In light of this, I will leave this thread up to other's opinions.

If a foetus has Human Rights, isn't being pregnant classed as False Imprisonment?
 
If a foetus has Human Rights, isn't being pregnant classed as False Imprisonment?
Since the child is breaking decency laws by being nude in public, that's okay. It's a Citizen's Arrest.
 
Except for the fact that you just killed a human being. Fetuses, as human beings of independent genetic data, do have rights.

I love how you glossed over about 20 pages of discussion...

Human Fetus = Human Being
Genetic Data = Rights

Done. End of story. Unfortunately I've come to a different conclusion entirely

Human Fetus != Human Being
Genetic Data != Rights

Done. Now what?
 
I love how you glossed over about 20 pages of discussion...

Human Fetus = Human Being
Genetic Data = Rights

Done. End of story. Unfortunately I've come to a different conclusion entirely

Human Fetus != Human Being
Genetic Data != Rights

Done. Now what?

You're confusing Human Being with Person. The beginning of Personhood is a philosophical argument, but I believe the law applies to human beings.

I won't argue it further. Not in this thread, anyway.
 
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