Driver Ra(n)ting

[zzz_pt]

Heyho,

I opened this thread to share my experience so far with the DR system and to open a discussion about it, provided people care about DR and how it's implemented of course.

On the first day of the daily races (last Tuesday), I went to sport mode for my usual races, after a decent period of time doing qualifying laps to know the track. I chose Lake Maggiore reverse with the Gr.4 cars and my Citroen VGT. Started on pole but on my first corner, I touched the grass on the ouside or the corner entry and spun. Finished the race in 5th or 6th, can't remember. My DR progress went back to where it was a bunch of races before (at least 4). I got pretty frustrated with this but still found some motivation to go back on track and won the 2 following races. The DR progress bar barely moved. 1 pixel or 2 per win, max.

I came to GTP to put into words my annoyance and ask if anyone had the same experience. I wondered why we couldn't get back the progress form a small mistake if we could win the following race, for example...

Now, 4 days later and this happened again. I entered the Gr.3 race at Lake Maggiore. I started on pole (best time in Europe atm) with the BMW M6. Made a small mistake - went wide but didn't crash into anyone or went off track - on corner 6 and drop to 3rd. Then, on lap 5, last corner, I touched the grass on the outside and spun. Didn't hit anyone or anything again and managed to keep the car on track and got out of the racing line. Dropped to 5th. Raced until the end, without any mistake. Finished 4th. Got a blue SR.

My DR progress though decreased by a lot. A huge chunk was taken back. This is the second time it happens in a week (my second mistake in a week...) and I think it's just too damn harsh. Every progress I made in the previous 3 races (that means 3h since we only get 1 race per hour) just got wiped out because of a spin.

It really sucks that because of a small mistake, the progress you made during 3 or 4 races just disappears. This means hours of racing clean and fast. I had just won 2 or the 3 previous races, with poles and fastest laps for example, against really fast people. But because of a spin those results were simply washed away. If it wasn't for this 2 times I got this "punishment", I would be DR S or very close to it. Really frustrating that a small mistake can cost you so much.

Here's a gif of my DR progress for today (5 races, all at Lake Maggiore, Gr.3):


after the spin, I got to the exact same stage I was yesterday

Basically in order to progress your DR you can only make a mistake per 4 races. If you have a mistake every 3 races, you'll go down.

Does any of you know if this happens on lower DR rankings? Is it just as harsh or can you make a few mistakes without impacting your DR at all?


On a side note: the BMW M6 sucks with tire wear. Over 2 sec a lap slower than qualifying on average... It's just stupid. With the VW Beetle I get consistent laps on 1:57 and the tire wear is barely noticeable. Oh, I use TCS so it's not like I'm burning off tires.

 

[rono_thomas]

I wonder if quallied 5th finished 5th if it would change at all?

 

[zzz_pt]

I wonder if quallied 5th finished 5th if it would change at all?

I don't know. :/ On the race I spun and finished 5th I started on pole.

 

[rono_thomas]

I don't know. :/ On the race I spun and finished 5th I started on pole.

But surely this is showing DR working as it should its going to increase until you reach your plateau? Eventually racers skill levels will group them with people that they wont always beat, so a DR increasing and decreasing around a point would be normal?

 

[zzz_pt]

But surely this is showing DR working as it should its going to increase until you reach your plateau? Eventually racers skill levels will group them with people that they wont always beat, so a DR increasing and decreasing around a point would be normal?

Yes, that's how it should work and how it's working afaik.

My post was more to the point of the penalty you get for a small mistake, compared to the progress you make with steady races, wins, poles and fastest laps. It looks pretty harsh of a DR penalty to me. But It's only my opinion. Maybe others think it's OK as it is.

I wonder if the penalty is the same on lower DR rankings.

 

[rono_thomas]

Yes, that's how it should work and how it's working afaik.

My post was more to the point of the penalty you get for a small mistake, compared to the progress you make with steady races, wins, poles and fastest laps. It looks pretty harsh of a DR penalty to me. But It's only my opinion. Maybe others think it's OK as it is.

I wonder if the penalty is the same on lower DR rankings.

How many races have you done in total BTW?

 

[praiano63]

I have spun 2 time today on maggiore , always in the left right lleft right corners succession. All this because of driving a bit difficult different car and no tuning option .
This is really bad. If you can t tune cars , you are condemned to be slow , or spin. The only option is to take one of the few fast car that the standard tune will match and turn it THE winner car. Stupid. Today i am A- S no more but A-A now and the tendency is to go down because this let me very 🤬

 

[zzz_pt]

How many races have you done in total BTW?

36 poles
22 fastest laps
84 races
30 wins

I have spun 2 time today on maggiore , always in the left right lleft right corners succession. All this because of driving a bit difficult different car and no tuning option .
This is really bad. If you can t tune cars , you are condemned to be slow , or spin. The only option is to take one of the few fast car that the standard tune will match and turn it THE winner car. Stupid. Today i am A- S no more but A-A now and the tendency is to go down because this let me very 🤬

Exactly... I set my fastest lap with the M6 but I use the Bettle for the race because the BMW sucks with tire rear :/

 

[mirial]

Thought I'd add this here, but there's too many ones using ASM and other assists other than ABS who are racing in amongst us in the A finals...and to be sporting, they shouldn't be because it's for beginners, not those who want all the glory the easy way.

 

[eAxis Patohm]

Dude zzz, im still wondering that nobody knows how this all works?

As we know, GT Sports uses the ELO System. We dont see the numbers, but a progession bar. Higher Rank = Even more Points between the ranks, so progession seems VERY slow...

As you may have seen, very low amount of Players are on your rank. You drive against very strong Players, but if the total Lobby about 20 People avageres at B 20% and you are a A 70 % (Top 20 - 50 in EUROPE) than the Systems expects more from you ^^

The System is working and ist the same for everyone. It is not build to Keep rising for ever! Some time, sonner or later it will stop. Thats your SKILL then. Most People wont even reach "B"..., we just have 1 Player in EUROPE with "S"... so ist getting very though on top.

If you are really interessted how this System works exactly, look it up here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

EDIT PS: Poles, fastest laps etc. doesnt matter at all!

 

[zzz_pt]

I know howcthe system works and that not everyone will reach A or S. But I wonder if the punishment for a mistake is fair, comparing to what you get from a win. Maybe it is. But it's a bit frustrating to see your progress from hard wins being taken back because of a spin. That's my issue, not the fact that I will eventually reach a stable point (might not even reach DR S, who knows).

And yep, derek reached DR S today he's probably the most consistent guy I've seen on track and he has done tones of races too. Most of the times I race him,I finish second to him.

@mirial I only use TCS in GTSport because it lacks tire / wheelspin / oversteer feedback. At least on the T300RS. Otherwise I would drive with ABS only, as I do usually.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Now after reading the wiki page the rating system makes a lot more sense in how competition levels and advancing or retreating positions during a race affects your score overall.

Honestly as long as there are enough players racing that are among your same level of qualifying time and SR rating to fill a lobby then what your DR ranking as far as having good races has nothing to do with great racing. The SR level is what does more as far as grouping drivers together on their habits of racing in a clean non contact manner.

 

[eAxis Patohm]

other oberservations:
- the System is a little inflationary... so even if real "SKILL" is met, if you stop playing, other People will catch you up. This is due to the reason, everyone is starting at the bottom. When noobs get beaten, more Point will be created into the System, because the noobs will not lose Points, the winner will be given points ^^
- please note, that the difference in between B and especially A is veryyyyy big. A low A is WAY lower than a high A.
- the same systm is used in IRacing BTW, just there you got numbers:
Starting Point: 1.350
Noob: 800 (E?)
Avarage: 1.500 (D?)
Good: 2.000 (C?)
very good: 3.500 (B?)
WC Material: 5.500 (A?)
World Leader: 9.900 (S?)

 

[Sloppy Shades]

I'm at the low end of B DR. Hasnt risen for ages. I need at least 5 more seconds to win a race per lap, cant see it happening don't have skills or time to get that much better. I'm almost scared to race as after 10 races in B with 5th my best, the shunting is getting so bad on some tracks (any Tokyo track) that I'm starting 5th and finishing 12th from cheating alone, so I will be back down in C soon. Win 2 races get back up and the cycle continues. I see lots of SR A players with no problem barging through when there's a wall to keep them on the track.
Lobbies look way more interesting from now on.

 

[Jarismatti]

Heyho,

I opened this thread to share my experience so far with the DR system and to open a discussion about it, provided people care about DR and how it's implemented of course.

On the first day of the daily races (last Tuesday), I went to sport mode for my usual races, after a decent period of time doing qualifying laps to know the track. I chose Lake Maggiore reverse with the Gr.4 cars and my Citroen VGT. Started on pole but on my first corner, I touched the grass on the ouside or the corner entry and spun. Finished the race in 5th or 6th, can't remember. My DR progress went back to where it was a bunch of races before (at least 4). I got pretty frustrated with this but still found some motivation to go back on track and won the 2 following races. The DR progress bar barely moved. 1 pixel or 2 per win, max.

I came to GTP to put into words my annoyance and ask if anyone had the same experience. I wondered why we couldn't get back the progress form a small mistake if we could win the following race, for example...

Now, 4 days later and this happened again. I entered the Gr.3 race at Lake Maggiore. I started on pole (best time in Europe atm) with the BMW M6. Made a small mistake - went wide but didn't crash into anyone or went off track - on corner 6 and drop to 3rd. Then, on lap 5, last corner, I touched the grass on the outside and spun. Didn't hit anyone or anything again and managed to keep the car on track and got out of the racing line. Dropped to 5th. Raced until the end, without any mistake. Finished 4th. Got a blue SR.

My DR progress though decreased by a lot. A huge chunk was taken back. This is the second time it happens in a week (my second mistake in a week...) and I think it's just too damn harsh. Every progress I made in the previous 3 races (that means 3h since we only get 1 race per hour) just got wiped out because of a spin.

It really sucks that because of a small mistake, the progress you made during 3 or 4 races just disappears. This means hours of racing clean and fast. I had just won 2 or the 3 previous races, with poles and fastest laps for example, against really fast people. But because of a spin those results were simply washed away. If it wasn't for this 2 times I got this "punishment", I would be DR S or very close to it. Really frustrating that a small mistake can cost you so much.

Here's a gif of my DR progress for today (5 races, all at Lake Maggiore, Gr.3):


after the spin, I got to the exact same stage I was yesterday

Basically in order to progress your DR you can only make a mistake per 4 races. If you have a mistake every 3 races, you'll go down.

Does any of you know if this happens on lower DR rankings? Is it just as harsh or can you make a few mistakes without impacting your DR at all?


On a side note: the BMW M6 sucks with tire wear. Over 2 sec a lap slower than qualifying on average... It's just stupid. With the VW Beetle I get consistent laps on 1:57 and the tire wear is barely noticeable. Oh, I use TCS so it's not like I'm burning off tires.

It's just a game, I try not to take it so seriously, or personally

 

[Tekku]

The progression is nothing more than a small bar on the screen. What you should really pay attention to is the level of competition when you race. If you feel challenged by fast and fair players then the system is doing its work. If that's not the case then it's time to start complaining.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Another question is since the "Sport" mode is locked regionally and you are only competing against drivers within your region then what may have you in a DR C rating in your home region that racing in a different region could have you with a DR A rating in that region just because of the difference in numbers possible in drivers across the different ratings?

A region with a lot of low level "C" ratings for instance would make it easier for a faster "D" to gain the positions against the low level C racers which would boost his DR ranking versus a driver where there were more high level "C" getting ready to break into a "B" ranking and few low level C racers with lap times closer to his own.

This same numbers game would be the same across all of the different levels.

If this is how the system works then a "B" rating in one part of the world may only be equivalent to a "C" rating in another part of the world.

So other than matching within your region for races the rating system may not be an accurate indicator of a players skill level on a world leader board type of scenario.

 

[PorscheHD]

I think the system is good and it must be there see Forza 7 but yesterday i played Tokyo and there went my rating from S to B, also the group 3 races where bad for my with the b rating.

I still find it strange that when i get a car in my back or when someone spins me i get all negative ratings.....

Every race when i got to B i get out the way at the start and wait untill i was last place the i fight back to 10th place but even then if you touch a car only for a bit without somebody even feels it my rating gos down... i pass 16th place driver dont likes it trys to get me of track my rating goes down....

It would be nice if cars ghost a bit sooner

But at the end of the day, today i do some races in last place without driving for places and its S again and when S its allot better when your not on tokyo haha

 

[Studentdriver]

Another question is since the "Sport" mode is locked regionally and you are only competing against drivers within your region then what may have you in a DR C rating in your home region that racing in a different region could have you with a DR A rating in that region just because of the difference in numbers possible in drivers across the different ratings?

A region with a lot of low level "C" ratings for instance would make it easier for a faster "D" to gain the positions against the low level C racers which would boost his DR ranking versus a driver where there were more high level "C" getting ready to break into a "B" ranking and few low level C racers with lap times closer to his own.

This same numbers game would be the same across all of the different levels.

If this is how the system works then a "B" rating in one part of the world may only be equivalent to a "C" rating in another part of the world.

So other than matching within your region for races the rating system may not be an accurate indicator of a players skill level on a world leader board type of scenario.

With the massive population of this game it's incredibly unlikely that there's a statistically significant difference between regions.