Driver Rating question.

[Odysseyhal900]

OK for weeks now I've been stuck on Driver Rating C, with consistent Sportsmanship S. I plugged away getting better times, further up the grid etc, a few poles, finally some podiums and some wins. Lo and behold few days ago my driver Rating goes up to B.
Yahoo!!! So understandably, my times that would get me say 3rd or 4th on the grid as a C driver, only good enough for like 12th or 13th on grid once I'm matched against B drivers. So once again I plug away, sometimes staying mid pack, sometimes improving a few spots. I try to be careful and sporting, get a few minor penalties for cutting track, but no major collisions other than being completely punted off by other drivers!! 🤬. I keep working,improving,placing higher, qualifying better. Then today actually qualify on pole. Unfortunately in the race, which I lead all the way, I get pipped at last corner. All clean, fair and square I come 2nd. In the very next race my DR has dropped back to C.
Why?????? On the whole I've improved, not caused any major carnage, and come 2nd from being on pole. Why has my DR dropped?? Any ideas??

 

[Famine]

Why has my DR dropped?? Any ideas??

A few.

First of all, in any given race you gain DR from every driver you beat and lose it to every driver who beats you. How much is gained or lost is not fixed; it depends on the difference in your raw DR score (which GT7 no longer makes available, but appears to be identical to GT Sport).

If your DR is considerably higher than someone you beat, you don't gain much by beating them. However if your DR is considerably lower than someone you beat, you gain quite a lot from beating them. That also works the other way round - have a DR considerably lower than someone who beats you and you won't lose much, but if it's considerably higher you'll lose a lot.

This covers every position in the race, so if you finish first in a 16-car lobby, you will gain DR from 15 other players and lose it to no-one. If you finish last in a 16-car lobby, you will gain DR from no-one but lose it to 15 other players. Finish in 8th and you'll lose DR to seven other players and gain it from eight. This will probably result in a very small increase or decrease in your raw DR score (without knowing everyone's DR score beforehand, it's hard to say).

That means that there is effectively a zero net change in DR from all the players in the lobby - outside of special circumstances where a player cannot gain any more DR, or lose any more DR, in some extreme edge cases with massive DR mismatches, or the other circumstance I'll mention in a minute - because all the people who gain it gain the exact same amount as the people who lost it lost.

It is possible to finish second and lose DR, even though you only lose it to one player and gain it from 10/14/18 others. That can happen if every other driver in the lobby is considerably lower ranked than you; the driver who wins takes more DR from you than you gain from beating the 14 others (which can be zero). It's unusual, but possible.


However the other circumstance is more important: your SR score limits and can reset your DR score.

Your SR rating won't allow your DR rating to rise above it. If you are SR C and have a high enough DR score to advance to DR B, you will not advance; you will remain as DR C until your SR improves to at least B.

It doesn't entirely function the other way round. Drop to SR C and you can remain as DR B if you have the score to do so... until a certain point. If your SR falls two levels and - I think - five more points below your DR rating, your DR will reset to a score in the middle of the DR range that matches your SR.

That means that if you are DR B and your SR falls to 15 (five points below the top of D at 20), your DR will reset to 2,000pt and you will become DR D.


I don't see this latter situation being applicable to your situation as you've described it, as you've fallen from DR B to DR C - if you were reset from DR B you'd fall to DR D right away.

What I suspect is you fell to DR C the race before you noticed that you did with all those midpack, 12th/13th finishes. Either you didn't notice, or the game didn't update it correctly for some reason.

 

[Odysseyhal900]

A few.

First of all, in any given race you gain DR from every driver you beat and lose it to every driver who beats you. How much is gained or lost is not fixed; it depends on the difference in your raw DR score (which GT7 no longer makes available, but appears to be identical to GT Sport).

If your DR is considerably higher than someone you beat, you don't gain much by beating them. However if your DR is considerably lower than someone you beat, you gain quite a lot from beating them. That also works the other way round - have a DR considerably lower than someone who beats you and you won't lose much, but if it's considerably higher you'll lose a lot.

This covers every position in the race, so if you finish first in a 16-car lobby, you will gain DR from 15 other players and lose it to no-one. If you finish last in a 16-car lobby, you will gain DR from no-one but lose it to 15 other players. Finish in 8th and you'll lose DR to seven other players and gain it from eight. This will probably result in a very small increase or decrease in your raw DR score (without knowing everyone's DR score beforehand, it's hard to say).

That means that there is effectively a zero net change in DR from all the players in the lobby - outside of special circumstances where a player cannot gain any more DR, or lose any more DR, in some extreme edge cases with massive DR mismatches, or the other circumstance I'll mention in a minute - because all the people who gain it gain the exact same amount as the people who lost it lost.

It is possible to finish second and lose DR, even though you only lose it to one player and gain it from 10/14/18 others. That can happen if every other driver in the lobby is considerably lower ranked than you; the driver who wins takes more DR from you than you gain from beating the 14 others (which can be zero). It's unusual, but possible.


However the other circumstance is more important: your SR score limits and can reset your DR score.

Your SR rating won't allow your DR rating to rise above it. If you are SR C and have a high enough DR score to advance to DR B, you will not advance; you will remain as DR C until your SR improves to at least B.

It doesn't entirely function the other way round. Drop to SR C and you can remain as DR B if you have the score to do so... until a certain point. If your SR falls two levels and - I think - five more points below your DR rating, your DR will reset to a score in the middle of the DR range that matches your SR.

That means that if you are DR B and your SR falls to 15 (five points below the top of D at 20), your DR will reset to 2,000pt and you will become DR D.


I don't see this latter situation being applicable to your situation as you've described it, as you've fallen from DR B to DR C - if you were reset from DR B you'd fall to DR D right away.

What I suspect is you fell to DR C the race before you noticed that you did with all those midpack, 12th/13th finishes. Either you didn't notice, or the game didn't update it correctly for some reason.

Ok thank you, that starts to make a certain amount of sense to me now. Another possibility based on what you've said, in one race I qualified 2nd on the grid while my DR was still B. I got punted into the barrier flat out on the first lap and sustained heavy damage. Rather than rage quit, I thought I'd just carry on as you gotta take the rough with the smooth. I limped round but predictably finished dead last. That incident alone probably damaged my DR more than anything else based on what you've said. Although the system seems somewhat flawed if I'm penalised for a poor finish after so obviously been punted off from behind 🤷‍♂️.
Incidentally, my SR has never dropped from S since I swapped over from GTS.I make evert effort not to punt people, even running off myself to avoid them if I screw up. It happens occasionally when a car careers into your path from another incident without ghosting, or they massively over brake.
Although the other day I did get confused about exactly where I was on track and missed my braking point entirely, pushing another player off track, who I'd actually been having a good dice with (we were P 7 &8 or something with no one around us). After race everyone left b4 I had chance to put up a message, but I felt so bad I remembered his ID and I messaged him with a friend request and apologised for bumping him, and that I'd totally screwed up my braking point, 100 % my fault. He was totally cool about it said no worries m8 it happens. Accepted my friend request also!! Every cloud and all that!! 👍👍😁

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It seems the game doesn't show the change in DR and SR after the race, it simply shows what you entered with. So unless you look at your profile page first or pay attention to what it says before the race starts, it might look like you lost DR or SR during the next race.

Another quirk (which probably isn't applicable here) is when you quit a race and already start a new race, before the race you quit finishes, your drop from quitting that race won't be updated yet.

Anyway it's really annoying the game doesn't give any feedback on DR/SR gains/losses anymore. Can't tell where or why you lost the CRB either. Can't even see your FL after the race. What kind of sport works like that

 

[Odysseyhal900]

It seems the game doesn't show the change in DR and SR after the race, it simply shows what you entered with. So unless you look at your profile page first or pay attention to what it says before the race starts, it might look like you lost DR or SR during the next race.

Another quirk (which probably isn't applicable here) is when you quit a race and already start a new race, before the race you quit finishes, your drop from quitting that race won't be updated yet.

Anyway it's really annoying the game doesn't give any feedback on DR/SR gains/losses anymore. Can't tell where or why you lost the CRB either. Can't even see your FL after the race. What kind of sport works like that

CRB and FL?
What are these please? 🤔👍

 

[Hazel]

CRB and FL?
What are these please? 🤔👍

Clean Race Bonus and Fastest Lap.
Also agree that not having the DR/SR up/down indicators alongside your sector times is annoying; was always nice to get that ping with a purple or blue sector and SR up...😎

 

[Odysseyhal900]

Clean Race Bonus and Fastest Lap.
Also agree that not having the DR/SR up/down indicators alongside your sector times is annoying; was always nice to get that ping with a purple or blue sector and SR up...😎

Ah thank you, I should of been able to work that out!!! 😆😆👍👍

 

[Odysseyhal900]

Grrrrrrrrr......so in todays sport race I'm on pole. First lap car behind does a crazy kamikaze overtake attempt, I'm already braking hard, he comes flying past no way he'll make the corner, gets it completely sideways in front of me, I've nowhere to go but into the side of him.
I get 5 seconds penalty "forcing another car off track". Race ruined. Ffs!!!! What kind of logic does that follow??????
And no doubt DR affected 🤬

 

[Met Entso]

Grrrrrrrrr......so in todays sport race I'm on pole. First lap car behind does a crazy kamikaze overtake attempt, I'm already braking hard, he comes flying past no way he'll make the corner, gets it completely sideways in front of me, I've nowhere to go but into the side of him.
I get 5 seconds penalty "forcing another car off track". Race ruined. Ffs!!!! What kind of logic does that follow??????
And no doubt DR affected 🤬

this is why i no longer to dailies, just do them in the lobbies. B forever.

 

[Odysseyhal900]

The lobby, what is it?
Its a place where people meet to race, but that's not important right now. 😁😆

 

[Odysseyhal900]

So after today's debacle as detailed above, I gave up. Just logged back on this evening, my DR is back up to B!!! 🤷‍♂️🤣🤣

 

[danthespam]

So after today's debacle as detailed above, I gave up. Just logged back on this evening, my DR is back up to B!!! 🤷‍♂️🤣🤣

Both DR and SR used to be a lot easier to track in GT Sport. Not only did you get visual hints for clean sectors (at some point this was introduced in gt Sport, I have no idea if it remained) but also 3rd party web sites such as kudos prime allowed you to see exactly what your Sr and Dr scores were, you could literally track them from Race to race to figure out how well or not you'd done. Sadly it appears as though sony/polyphony have stopped the ability for those sites to pull the data from the game to show that info so we're pretty much in the dark at this point, hopefully at some point we get some way of viewing this, it would be an excellent (and relatively simple I think) addition to the game..

 

[Comat0sed]

Grrrrrrrrr......so in todays sport race I'm on pole. First lap car behind does a crazy kamikaze overtake attempt, I'm already braking hard, he comes flying past no way he'll make the corner, gets it completely sideways in front of me, I've nowhere to go but into the side of him.
I get 5 seconds penalty "forcing another car off track". Race ruined. Ffs!!!! What kind of logic does that follow??????
And no doubt DR affected 🤬

Had a similar experience in race B today. Final corner, guy gets it completely wrong, loses the rear and flies across the track on a collision course with the inside barrier. Cuts straight across the front of me, didn't even see him coming and I get a 4 second penalty for forcing someone off the track???? Shame, cause up till that point I was having a great day of it.

 

[Odysseyhal900]

Both DR and SR used to be a lot easier to track in GT Sport. Not only did you get visual hints for clean sectors (at some point this was introduced in gt Sport, I have no idea if it remained) but also 3rd party web sites such as kudos prime allowed you to see exactly what your Sr and Dr scores were, you could literally track them from Race to race to figure out how well or not you'd done. Sadly it appears as though sony/polyphony have stopped the ability for those sites to pull the data from the game to show that info so we're pretty much in the dark at this point, hopefully at some point we get some way of viewing this, it would be an excellent (and relatively simple I think) addition to the game..

One wonders why they remove/ block/ inhibit features that add to the game and our understanding/ enjoyment of it??
It's like a backwards step. Same with the micro transaction fiasco. It's like "we want you to love this game, and enjoy all of its features, but only in the way we want you to love and enjoy it" 🤷‍♂️🙄🤨

Had a similar experience in race B today. Final corner, guy gets it completely wrong, loses the rear and flies across the track on a collision course with the inside barrier. Cuts straight across the front of me, didn't even see him coming and I get a 4 second penalty for forcing someone off the track???? Shame, cause up till that point I was having a great day of it.

Yep I feel you!! That sounds pretty much exactly what happened to me, when a car careers across the track at right angles in front of you, you've nowhere to go!!!
Surely the game is sophisticated enough to be able to analyse the dynamics of the incident?? I mean it gives detailed feedback when u go over a rumble strip, it knows if u get one wheel slightly on the grass. But it doesn't know the difference between you smashing a car off track from behind and a car coming past you, crashing, and coming back on track sideways in front of you??? Seriously???
I'm not very tech minded, maybe someone who is can explain why this isn't within the scope of the game's abilities 🤷‍♂️👍👍

 

[danthespam]

One wonders why they remove/ block/ inhibit features that add to the game and our understanding/ enjoyment of it??
It's like a backwards step. Same with the micro transaction fiasco. It's like "we want you to love this game, and enjoy all of its features, but only in the way we want you to love and enjoy it" 🤷‍♂️🙄🤨

Couldn't agree more. I don't like to complain too much about any game, as I know just how many people will have poured their heart and Soul and plenty of late nights into a title like this despite the end result, but this doesn't seem like a reasonable step and isn't helping anyone...

 

[Comat0sed]

But it doesn't know the difference between you smashing a car off track from behind and a car coming past you, crashing, and coming back on track sideways in front of you??? Seriously???

You'd think it could figure that kind of thing out, yet, here we are!

 

[MC5372]

Clean Race Bonus and Fastest Lap.
Also agree that not having the DR/SR up/down indicators alongside your sector times is annoying; was always nice to get that ping with a purple or blue sector and SR up...😎

Is this the "FL" we're talking about (next to M. McEwen)? So, he had the fastest lap at 4:34.800? How is that possible, when my first lap was 4:32.361?

 

[Jewel Runner]

First lap doesn't count.

 

[Odysseyhal900]

Yep, first lap is never recorded as it includes the grid or rolling start, presumably 👍

 

[B80]

Is this the "FL" we're talking about (next to M. McEwen)? So, he had the fastest lap at 4:34.800? How is that possible, when my first lap was 4:32.361?View attachment 1157523

May be wrong on some circuits, positions on grid, but I'd imagine its pretty unusual for 1st lap to be fastest in the race, in general.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

May be wrong on some circuits, positions on grid, but I'd imagine its pretty unusual for 1st lap to be fastest in the race, in general.

It is in GT7 in offline races since the timer starts late. Depending on your position you've already rolled past the start before the race starts. Rolling starts start much further up in GT7 compared to GT Sport.

Actually it's the same in online races. In the Daytona race half the field is already past the start/finish line before the race starts. The first lap isn't counted for FL.

We've also had races without FL entirely. 2 laps on N24 with mandatory pit stop. An in and out lap, no FL, unless you took the 1 minute penalty for ignoring the regulations.

 

[Talon16]

So it seems like starting position vs ending position doesn't matter (aka, positions gained/lost) rather it's just how you finish vs other drivers plus how your rating compares to theirs and is weighted as such.

I thought that - and lets assume the exact same other drivers in the lobby for comparison sake - if you started 5th and finish 1st you'd get more DR than if you started 1st and finished 1st.

There is a lot less involved there than what I had though... which makes it easier to track. Well, kinda since we can't see others' scores as much as a letter. Makes getting a good quali lap that much more important.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

So it seems like starting position vs ending position doesn't matter (aka, positions gained/lost) rather it's just how you finish vs other drivers plus how your rating compares to theirs and is weighted as such.

I thought that - and lets assume the exact same other drivers in the lobby for comparison sake - if you started 5th and finish 1st you'd get more DR than if you started 1st and finished 1st.

There is a lot less involved there than what I had though... which makes it easier to track. Well, kinda since we can't see others' scores as much as a letter. Makes getting a good quali lap that much more important.

The details are all in here

Unravelling the Mysteries of GT Sport's Driver Rating System (and How To Improve Yours)

Whether you're new to GT Sport or you've been playing it a while, you'll likely be aware of the Driver Rating (DR) system. It's a scoring system the game uses to rank drivers according to ability. DR is a significant part of GT Sport's esports focus; you'll see your own DR score in the top-right

www.gtplanet.net

Except PD ditched the door numbers (which were buggy anyway)

And yep, qualifying is half the work if you want to gain DR. The shorter the race, the more your starting position matters.

You can see everyone's DR now, check their progress bar on their profile page.
The easiest way to gain DR is simply to win every race

 

[incredirog]

ditching door numbers was the single best thing they did for the livery editor and using created liveries online

 

[NikNakTobasco]

The easiest way to gain DR is simply to win every race

So that‘s what I’ve been doing wrong! 😁

 

[Slammer0909]

So thanks to all, I understand that there will only count which Place you reached at the finish line.
Are there any other tips?

1) If I get a time penalty, will that effect my DR points? Ore only the SR?

2) Are there possibilities to know „how many points“ you can get?

Since kudos prime has the new „sports tracker“ I habe tracked my Last 2 (very poor) races in A+

In Nations Cup I was last and lost 1000 points.
In manufacturer Cup I was P3, then ran out of fuel and was on the Last Position P14. I have lost 2500 points.

3) may it be, that in the beginning screen in the Daily Race lobbys tge sorting from top to botton is sorted by the DR?

Thanks for your answers if you have more Details.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

@Slammer0909

1) Time penalties only affect SR.
A time penalty for ignoring track limits negates the positive SR you would have gotten for that sector (about 0.4 SR per clean sector)
A time penalty for punting someone off can cost you up to 10 SR but I suspect it is lower now in GT7. However you can still get SR deductions for contact with another car that does not result in a time penalty.

2) The formular is 80 +/- (DR difference / 500) with min 1, max 160 points exchange per player.
The max gain/loss depends on the number of people in the room
12 players: max 1,760 (avg 880)
16 players: max 2,400 (avg 1,200)
20 players: max 3,040 (avg 1,520)
When your DR letter changes you gain/lose an extra 1,500 DR.

3) Sometimes it screws up, showing a different order. Not sure if it's on DR or just a bug. But normally (and after the glitch fixes itself end of warm-up) it's sorted on qualifying time with the non qualifiers sorted on DR.

 

[Slammer0909]

@Slammer0909

1) Time penalties only affect SR.
A time penalty for ignoring track limits negates the positive SR you would have gotten for that sector (about 0.4 SR per clean sector)
A time penalty for punting someone off can cost you up to 10 SR but I suspect it is lower now in GT7. However you can still get SR deductions for contact with another car that does not result in a time penalty.

2) The formular is 80 +/- (DR difference / 500) with min 1, max 160 points exchange per player.
The max gain/loss depends on the number of people in the room
12 players: max 1,760 (avg 880)
16 players: max 2,400 (avg 1,200)
20 players: max 3,040 (avg 1,520)
When your DR letter changes you gain/lose an extra 1,500 DR.

3) Sometimes it screws up, showing a different order. Not sure if it's on DR or just a bug. But normally (and after the glitch fixes itself end of warm-up) it's sorted on qualifying time with the non qualifiers sorted on DR.

Thank you, perfect answer. One more question. There must be a difference in points to gain between daily race b and daily race c, and of course the manufacturer races?
Longer races gain more points ore not?

Thx.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Thank you, perfect answer. One more question. There must be a difference in points to gain between daily race b and daily race c, and of course the manufacturer races?
Longer races gain more points ore not?

Thx.

There are more people in the race to exchange points with, hence the 12, 16, 20 break down. (In GT7 max is always 16, GT Sport has 20 players in race C and had 24 in the superstar FIA events)

The point exchange per player is always the same, yet in race B and C you can lose to max 15 others while you can only lose to max 11 others in race A. (Actually race A doesn't track DR/SR anymore, so just B and C for DR gains/losses)

The championship points are calculated differently, separate from DR gains and loses. In those the total amount of points you can get depends on the total DR available in the room (Total and average DR in the room stays the same since DR is a zero point exchange).

Chart of the Gran Turismo Sport FIA points system

[Update: The points chart has been updated because of the new 100000 DR ceiling. Having watched Tidgney's and Kie's streams tonight (April 24), the points are seemingly calculated the same way as before.] I have made a model of the new FIA points system based on data found in posts by...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[Slammer0909]

There are more people in the race to exchange points with, hence the 12, 16, 20 break down. (In GT7 max is always 16, GT Sport has 20 players in race C and had 24 in the superstar FIA events)

The point exchange per player is always the same, yet in race B and C you can lose to max 15 others while you can only lose to max 11 others in race A. (Actually race A doesn't track DR/SR anymore, so just B and C for DR gains/losses)

The championship points are calculated differently, separate from DR gains and loses. In those the total amount of points you can get depends on the total DR available in the room (Total and average DR in the room stays the same since DR is a zero point exchange).

Chart of the Gran Turismo Sport FIA points system

[Update: The points chart has been updated because of the new 100000 DR ceiling. Having watched Tidgney's and Kie's streams tonight (April 24), the points are seemingly calculated the same way as before.] I have made a model of the new FIA points system based on data found in posts by...

www.gtplanet.net

Many thanks.