Driving technique question from a semi-newb

[Braddock]

Gotta question here. I searched around a bit before posting, But really couldnt find exactly what I was wanting to ask.
Outside of being a racing fan & logging butloads of hours on GT4 and whatnot, I really have no real life experience driving a car in a race environment. My question is this:
The Shelby Cobra 427 is a rather fun car to drive on GT4. But, It has a fantasci amount of oversteer. Im assuming from the power and low weight of the vehicle. Ive been logging a bunch of time at Tsukuba trying to get a handle on this car. Ive noticed, That while downshifting going into corners and popping the accelorater at the same time, It eliminates a lot of the oversteer and helps me carry much more speed through out the corner and out. In a racing terms, What exactly am I doing? Am I just balancing the car a bit more so that it doent get loose and spin out? Ive really reduced my lap times using this techniqe. Most cars dont have such a bad oversteer problem like the Cobra, So I really havent tried it with any others. Anyways, Just wondering and learning. Thanx

 

[gregc]

I'm no expert, but it sounds like you're combining heel & toe and left foot braking. In effect what I think is happening is that you're balancing the light back end (caused by weight transfer under braking) with some throttle. So yeah - you probably are balancing the car with the gas.

It's a pretty effective technique with light, powerful cars - another one that might be worth trying this with is the Caterham, I'd guess it will have similar characteristics.

Interesting question, I'm sure those with more knowledge (Scaff for one ) will have plenty to add

 

[Braddock]

I thought Ive seen all the cars, But refresh my memory. Which one is the Caterham?

 

[Greycap]

The Caterham is the small odd-looking frame-bodied British car.



(The shot is courtesy of TVR&Ferrari_Fan, not mine, I just used it to illustrate the car.)

- R -

 

[samj_13]

Well, it does sound like you're balancing it out quite well. I've seen similar effects with the Cobra, downshifting into corners and such. I think it's just called corrective shifting

 

[Bram Turismo]

So, when you brake and shift down in a corner, you get much more grip?

Then only I know about this is weight balance, but others will come and give you all the answers you're looking for 👍

 

[marsipulami]

because of the down shift the motor's power is also working as a brake.
This wil releve the tension on the brake disd and therefor balance out your car it works a bit as an ABS.
You also balance because in this way the weight shift is less, because of the rev changes and smoother brake

excuse my bad Englisch I'm dutch

 

[Luca]

It sounds like you're just shifting the weight to the back of the vehicle, which should reduce oversteer. By downshifting, you ensure that the engine stays in the powerband even as you slow for the corner. If you didn't downshift, your engine would be revving too low and thus wouldn't be pulling very hard.

This definitely isn't heel-toe braking. Heel-toe braking involves pressing both the brake and gas at the same time in order to reduce turbo lag. You really have to be trying really hard to use that technique in GT4, especially with the DS2 controller.

 

[the Interceptor]

I think what you're experiencing is this. When you approach a corner, a car can get instable, because you're braking and steering, thus lifting weight of the already loose back and, at the same time, putting on forces in different directions. Now, when you downshift, there will be no more power on the back wheels as long as you, or rather the computer, press the clutch. When you've shifted and engange the clutch, you connect the back wheels to the engine again. But as you don't have any power put on (in a normal case, not in this one), the tires try to rev the engine up to match the engines rpms to the tires rpms (given the correct gear ratio linkage of course). This means that you put the propelled tires under even more forces in a very short period of time, because the engine kind of "stalls" the wheels. That can make a car spin out when you shift down without any gas applied, with the engine literally blocking the wheels, especially in a powerful car like the Cobra.

If you do press the accelerator while shifting, also known as "heel and toe", you match the engines revs to the wheels revs before engaging the clutch again. Therefor, there will be no additional force applied, and the car will remain as stable as it was before.

I hope that was understandable, I did my best!

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Braddock]

Well, Ive kind of misled yall on what i was doing. I am in a way heel -toeing the car. As I approach a tight corner, I begin braking...As the back end starts to get loose, With my foot still braking, I start popping the accelerator while continuing to downshift (unless Im already in the correct gear). Im basically braking & accelerating at the same time & it seems to help balance out the car and carry a lot more speed through the corners. I thought heel-toe technique was more of just matching engine speed with wheel speed to ensure smoother shifting and quicker times through the corners.

 

[Duke]

All you're doing is counteracting the forward weight transfer of the braking with some acceleration from the gas.

You could get the same effect by simply braking less, though the left-foot braking is letting you get on the gas a little earlier.

 

[Braddock]

Thanx, But thats a given. All I wanted to know was this a real world application technique? Or am I just developing a bad habit that has noplace in driving?

 

[Scaff]

This definitely isn't heel-toe braking. Heel-toe braking involves pressing both the brake and gas at the same time in order to reduce turbo lag. You really have to be trying really hard to use that technique in GT4, especially with the DS2 controller.

Uhh Left-foot braking is the use of the throttle and brake together, and is the technique used to keep turbo's spooled up under braking (as commonly used with group B rally cars). It can also be used to help balance a car that suffers from understeer when cornering.

Left-foot braking is (with a wheel) easy to use in GT4 and very effective.

Heel and toe is not required in GT4 as downshifts are automatically heel and toed for you.



@Braddock

More info and a full reply can be found in the left foot braking thread

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2484301&posted=1#post2484301

I'm locking this one so we only have one discusion on the subject.

Regards

Scaff