Elite driving skills and its impact on career gameplay.

[sk8er913]

We have a lot of really fast drivers on this forum...

In GT5 prologue I was a bit of a noob. I had an interest in cars and played several other simcades and Arcade racers. But I was young and inexperienced. And I was excited for GT because they are always high quality products. (In comparison to NFS and many other racers)

Then in 2010 with GT5 I was still a bit of a noob. Mostly because I was only as good as the AI required of me which generally is not much. As usual I progressed through career and found online which made me a significantly better driver. I would probably be a D6 or D7 driver in Snail towards the end of it.

Finally GT6 came, by this time I was a skilled racer and quickly progressed through career mode and had some fun with it and went to online mode for events like our GTP ES. I became a very advanced player. I placed 32nd in GTAcademy USA.



Now we are waiting for GT7 and I am a very advanced player as many of us are after years of playing GT. Im curious of how it will impact my enjoyment of the game. Of course I'm going to enjoy the enhanced realism. But it just feels like career mode is going to be a complete bore no matter what they do to it. I am just too fast for the AI. And 2 lap races are not fun at all. Is there such a thing as too good at a game? Because if there is such a thing, we are in this forum.


Do you think career mode can be enjoyable for everyone? Or is it just tailored towards the average person. Do you think PD will take steps to broaden their targeted audience for career mode this year since they are attracting more and more drivers that they train to be professionals?

</end rant>

I think this is the longest post I have ever made...

 

[JoaoSilva]

if they manage to improve the AI and gives some decent events / event creator , then yes , i think that it could be enjoyable.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Provided they add an option to change the quality of the AI so it can be configured to suit more people.

They did it in GT PSP so it can be done.

 

[JoaoSilva]

Provided they add an option to change the quality of the AI so it can be configured to suit more people.

They did it in GT PSP so it can be done.

The problem is the good drivers , the AI can't keep up on the "hardest" difficulty , the AI doesn't suit those players.

 

[sk8er913]

The problem is the good drivers , the AI can't keep up on the "hardest" difficulty , the AI doesn't suit those players.

And they are usually all exactly the same and never even try to pass, and the events are too short... maybe something like what Fora 5 did would work... does any here have Forza 5, how are the adaptable AI?

 

[Thomas__633]

The Forza 5 AI would still be easily beatable for you. I play on the second hardest difficulty with only aids being ABS and Driving Line and reguarly win, and I can barely gold GT Academy. FH2 is the same but worse because of shortcutting and the physics being too forgiving (I made a BTR replica with the 3.3 Turbo, and to get it handling like a BTR I had to give the car 550 hp. And it was still pretty easy to drive.)

 

[Johnnypenso]

With the ability to adjust the power limiter and change tires, this is really a non-issue in the GT series if they are able to get the AI speed up to par with other games like Grid Autosport, Project Cars etc. Even if you are so good you find yourself a second or two ahead of the best AI, you can adjust your power limiter down a couple of points and start mid-pack if you want a challenge. So long as the AI is adjustable to an unbeatable level for 99% of the players that are not aliens, all will be well in GT land.

 

[Thomas__633]

Make the AI so someone like me just loses on max difficulty like Forza does. Then Forza lets you use substandard cars so say you can use a Z8 against an M5.

 

[FS7]

PD needs to include options that have been available in other games for years in offline races: mechanical damage, fuel/tyre wear, corner cutting/collision penalties, as well as setup all AI opponents to use competitive cars that are as close as possible to the performance limit of the event, include the option to adjust AI difficulty (pace & aggressiveness) so that it's somewhat close to the player's skill level, and include realistic race weekends with free practice, qualifying, and either standing starts or realistic rolling starts, not that catch-the-rabbit bs they have right now.
The way offline races are setup right now they only cater to beginners, including more options in offline races should make them more enjoyable to everyone.

 

[Sick Cylinder]

I'm an enthusiastic driver, but will never be fast enough to trouble advanced players - whatever they do it needs to be adjustable in some way to suit a wide ability range.

I think there are several things that need to change in order to create a great career mode:

Yes the AI need to be faster, but the AI in the new Expert Seasonal are fast, but there is no Intelligence in the AI. The AI need to be intelligent enough to alter their line or braking point slightly depending on your cars position relative to theirs. PD have upped the speed of the AI in some seasonals, but they just bash into you so in the end I just stop playing out of frustration after being nerfed for the 10th time.

The Career itself needs to be looked at and follow a logical path - maybe you could choose from a range of options at the start according to your preference e.g. Nascar, Rally, single seaters, touring car, historic etc and have multiple career paths.

An event creator is needed to extend playability and offline - preferably using cars from your garage and you would be able to adjust those e.g. on top speed to give yourself good races.

A lot more thought needs to go into the car list so that the career paths and event creator would make sense. At the moment the cars seem to be chosen at random without any thought as to what they can or will race against in the game. This is particularly true with the Historic cars - for example we get a Ferrari 250 GTO, but where is the Jaguar E Type lightweight or the 289 AC Cobra which raced against it? I was stunned by the pathetic Historic career in GT6 - after 2 events in GT5 I expected more than 2 events in GT6! Especially as they had added a load of great cars!

 

[Lion-Face]

The AI is as difficult as you make them. GT isn't about the slider from easy - difficult, as that has a finite amount of possibilities. No matter how hard AI is, it is designed to be beaten. But in GT, you can take whatever car you like into whatever event and detune to your liking. You can bring your car down to the AI level, you can make it impossible for yourself to win, or anywhere in between. It's the ultimate sandbox, but most players don't realize this, take a car that is max pp and smash the AI then complain it's too easy.

It's like Project Cars, you can enter the race, set the laps to min, set AI to min and smash them, then complain it's too easy.

The AI do race you, if you race them and respect their position on track. The AI isn't bad at all, sure it's not the best or up with some games, but given half a chance they will race you, give you racing room and race side by side.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The AI is as difficult as you make them. GT isn't about the slider from easy - difficult, as that has a finite amount of possibilities. No matter how hard AI is, it is designed to be beaten. But in GT, you can take whatever car you like into whatever event and detune to your liking. You can bring your car down to the AI level, you can make it impossible for yourself to win, or anywhere in between. It's the ultimate sandbox, but most players don't realize this, take a car that is max pp and smash the AI then complain it's too easy.

It's like Project Cars, you can enter the race, set the laps to min, set AI to min and smash them, then complain it's too easy.

The AI do race you, if you race them and respect their position on track. The AI isn't bad at all, sure it's not the best or up with some games, but given half a chance they will race you, give you racing room and race side by side.

If many players can't have a competitive race with the AI using the same car and specs, then the AI isn't fast enough. The option to nerf your car will always be there no matter what, but an AI difficulty slider combined with good AI coding, offers the most options to the most people. Being forced to go through experimenetal detuning over and over to get a competitive race is a gigantic waste of time for many of us. Other games have no trouble with this concept, there's no reason for GT to have a problem with this on the PS4 either.

 

[Bancroft]

The AI is as difficult as you make them. GT isn't about the slider from easy - difficult, as that has a finite amount of possibilities. No matter how hard AI is, it is designed to be beaten. But in GT, you can take whatever car you like into whatever event and detune to your liking. You can bring your car down to the AI level, you can make it impossible for yourself to win, or anywhere in between. It's the ultimate sandbox, but most players don't realize this, take a car that is max pp and smash the AI then complain it's too easy.

I remember in GT2 that when going into the Event Synthesizer Race you could do up any car to the max(Well not any car) and have a real good battle with the AI. The only thing is that you had to be sure that your car was set up to a degree where you could challenge for the lead. GT4 was kind of similar in normal event races depending on which tyres and you would use and BHP that you set for each of your cars.

It would be nice if they could again incorporate that in GT7 once it's released, and I think it would've been very good in GT5 & GT6. Hopefully they will look back to GT2 and implement these features.

 

[Lion-Face]

If many players can't have a competitive race with the AI using the same car and specs, then the AI isn't fast enough. The option to nerf your car will always be there no matter what, but an AI difficulty slider combined with good AI coding, offers the most options to the most people. Being forced to go through experimenetal detuning over and over to get a competitive race is a gigantic waste of time for many of us. Other games have no trouble with this concept, there's no reason for GT to have a problem with this on the PS4 either.

Experimental detuning is the same as a difficulty slider. When you jump into a new game, you try a certain difficulty, if it is too easy or too hard, you go adjust the slider. Often difficulty levels are restricted to about 5 presets. The same can be done in GT, where after the first couple of races, you get a feel for how much you need to detune your car for a competitive race. When I was doing career in GT, after the early few races, I knew I could detune about 100pp for a close race. So that became my default difficulty.

I remember in GT2 that when going into the Event Synthesizer Race you could do up any car to the max(Well not any car) and have a real good battle with the AI. The only thing is that you had to be sure that your car was set up to a degree where you could challenge for the lead. GT4 was kind of similar in normal event races depending on which tyres and you would use and BHP that you set for each of your cars.

It would be nice if they could again incorporate that in GT7 once it's released, and I think it would've been very good in GT5 & GT6. Hopefully they will look back to GT2 and implement these features.

I don't remember that in GT2, I will have to go back and give it a run. But what you described in GT4 is the same here. If you are running worse tires and limiting your BHP to make a close race, that's the same as detuning your car to bring it down to a level where the racing is competitive.

 

[FS7]

Experimental detuning is the same as a difficulty slider.

It isn't.
Taking a car, detuning it, and using lower grade tyres it so it has less power and worse handling is one thing. Driving a car in its stock form and increasing the AI difficulty so that their pace when using the same car is close to mine is quite a different experience from detuning my car. That's how it works in pretty much every other racing game there is. This whole "use a worse car" talk is usually something that comes from people who only play GT and have no idea how difficulty works in other games.
If other games have had option to adjust AI difficulty for the past decade why is it so difficulty for PD to do the same?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Experimental detuning is the same as a difficulty slider. When you jump into a new game, you try a certain difficulty, if it is too easy or too hard, you go adjust the slider. Often difficulty levels are restricted to about 5 presets. The same can be done in GT, where after the first couple of races, you get a feel for how much you need to detune your car for a competitive race. When I was doing career in GT, after the early few races, I knew I could detune about 100pp for a close race. So that became my default difficulty.

As @FS7 says, no it isn't, in fact it's completely different. For truly competitive, exciting racing offline, you need to be on the same pace as the AI throughout the course or as close as possible. Nerfing your tires and/or hp so you arrive at the finish line at the same time as the AI is not even close to what a competitive race with the AI is really like. You should be able to set the difficulty slider once in your career and be able to race with the AI from beginning to end with the same car, with only minor adjustments here and there.

 

[sk8er913]

As @FS7 says, no it isn't, in fact it's completely different. For truly competitive, exciting racing offline, you need to be on the same pace as the AI throughout the course or as close as possible. Nerfing your tires and/or hp so you arrive at the finish line at the same time as the AI is not even close to what a competitive race with the AI is really like. You should be able to set the difficulty slider once in your career and be able to race with the AI from beginning to end with the same car, with only minor adjustments here and there.

Well said. I hope they add options for damage and tire wear too, and race lengths... in exchange for a small bonus in credits of course... I think Forza 3s system and Sports Car GTs are both pretty good in this department.

 

[Alex Pepe]

We have a lot of really fast drivers on this forum...

In GT5 prologue I was a bit of a noob. I had an interest in cars and played several other simcades and Arcade racers. But I was young and inexperienced. And I was excited for GT because they are always high quality products. (In comparison to NFS and many other racers)

Then in 2010 with GT5 I was still a bit of a noob. Mostly because I was only as good as the AI required of me which generally is not much. As usual I progressed through career and found online which made me a significantly better driver. I would probably be a D6 or D7 driver in Snail towards the end of it.

Finally GT6 came, by this time I was a skilled racer and quickly progressed through career mode and had some fun with it and went to online mode for events like our GTP ES. I became a very advanced player. I placed 32nd in GTAcademy USA.



Now we are waiting for GT7 and I am a very advanced player as many of us are after years of playing GT. Im curious of how it will impact my enjoyment of the game. Of course I'm going to enjoy the enhanced realism. But it just feels like career mode is going to be a complete bore no matter what they do to it. I am just too fast for the AI. And 2 lap races are not fun at all. Is there such a thing as too good at a game? Because if there is such a thing, we are in this forum.


Do you think career mode can be enjoyable for everyone? Or is it just tailored towards the average person. Do you think PD will take steps to broaden their targeted audience for career mode this year since they are attracting more and more drivers that they train to be professionals?

</end rant>

I think this is the longest post I have ever made...

We are the exact same! I was 26th for US this year. I felt while reading this post like someone was writing it about me!

 

[sk8er913]

We are the exact same! I was 26th for US this year. I felt while reading this post like someone was writing it about me!

Well it looks like we both missed the cut which to my knowledge was 24th.