Endless Energy!! Hydrogen Fusion in the "near" future.

  • Thread starter GT4 genius
  • 43 comments
  • 3,631 views

When will a nuclear fusion plant power your home?

  • 10-25 years

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • 25-40 years

    Votes: 12 34.3%
  • 40-50 years

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • 50+ years

    Votes: 9 25.7%
  • Never

    Votes: 6 17.1%

  • Total voters
    35
1,883
Ireland
Ireland
GT4genius or GTP_...
We've all known about this type of energy for a while. It promises to make all traditional power plants pointless and absolutely no need for giant pylons on land and sea, or mirrors across the deserts or walls spanning the width of huge rivers. It claims to have no downsides, an endless source of fuel and no hazardouz by-products. Yet when will we see this mericle? I seen a short program about it today and it believed that it would be common within 50 years.
What do you think, will we even see it within our lifetime??

PS: The poll choice c is actually 40-50, a small error sorry, is it possible to change it?
 
Considering Nuclear fushion requires 144,000 degrees C to occur, not to mention shed loads of pressure. To my knowledge it only happens in stars, and in some nuclear bombs (hence the immense heat created).

Perhaps I need a little more info, my facts may be wrong of the top of my head.

Fisson? well thats another matter entirely but no where near as efficient. Nuclear fushion is about effecient as it gets, turning pretty much all its energy into kinnetic...I think.
 
Considering Nuclear fushion requires 144,000 degrees C to occur, not to mention shed loads of pressure. To my knowledge it only happens in stars, and in some nuclear bombs (hence the immense heat created).

Perhaps I need a little more info, my facts may be wrong of the top of my head.

Fisson? well thats another matter entirely but no where near as efficient. Nuclear fushion is about effecient as it gets, turning pretty much all its energy into kinnetic...I think.

Fusion, not Fushion. Regardless, they have achieved I believe in some limited tests, but the input energy exceeds outputs and the stability is non existent from what I recall.

The key difference in Fission and Fusion, to the majority, is the waste product. Fusion is immensely clean, resulting in only Helium as a waste product. Fission, well, thats the classic nuclear waste deal. Both are immensely efficient in comparison to fossil fuels and the likes, but the typical myths of doom and destruction result in the public being less than thrilled about their development.

I'm with Danoff on this, despite what I may hope.
 
The Feds have to approve first, then they have to spend the money. We'll see...
 
I've been wondering, what's the worst that could happen? could we create a huge killer death black hole, or Antimatter, that could destroy the earth similarly? speaking of which, what does Antimatter do when it touches matter?
 
I've been wondering, what's the worst that could happen? could we create a huge killer death black hole, or Antimatter, that could destroy the earth similarly? speaking of which, what does Antimatter do when it touches matter?

e = mc^2 sums it up best

Anti-matter reacts with matter by converting directly to energy.

Its impossible for anti-matter or a black hole to be the by product of a fission experiment. Unless its a super collider experiment, in which case we have already made anti-matter in those environments. And stored it, thanks to crazy containers that are vacuums and magnets and all sorts of madness.
 
PS: The poll choice c is actually 40-50, a small error sorry, is it possible to change it?

No. :D

I put never, but only because there isn't a 50+ option.

No you didn't. ;)

Considering Nuclear fushion requires 144,000 degrees C to occur, not to mention shed loads of pressure. To my knowledge it only happens in stars, and in some nuclear bombs (hence the immense heat created).

Perhaps I need a little more info, my facts may be wrong of the top of my head.

Fisson? well thats another matter entirely but no where near as efficient. Nuclear fushion is about effecient as it gets, turning pretty much all its energy into kinnetic...I think.

We can create fusion conditions. There are 17 fusion reactors currently in use worldwide, with a further three due to start up soon.

The problem is that it requires more energy to run the things than you get back out of them. In actual fact, all forms of electricity generation require more energy to make the fuel than we get back out of them, but with fusion it's a little more obvious - we need electricity we've already generated to start the reaction. Still, JET (Joint European Torus) managed to generate 16.1MW - 65% of its input power - which isn't a bad effort.

JET's replacement, ITER (originally "International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor", but now just "Iter" since people didn't like the connection of the words "thermonuclear" and "experimental") is under construction and designed to produce 500MW for up to 8 minutes at a time. ITER should theoretically generate net energy, though it won't be used to power turbines for electricity generation.


The timeline sketched out by the IAEA is for ITER to be replaced with a facility called "DEMO" which will be used to generate electricity with a start-up time of 2033.

I just hope it isn't being built by PD.
 
I am right in thinking that Fusion power = Hydrogen atom thrown at another Hydrogen atom, which gives a Helium atom and lots of energy. Or is that Fission?
 
More or less. It's really heavy hydrogen nuclei thrown at each other to make helium nuclei.

Fission is the splitting of very large atoms - like uranium or plutonium - to smaller atoms - like lead.
 
I just hope it isn't being built by PD.

:lol:

Thanks for the info; I wasn't aware they had 17 functioning at this point, nor about the ITER project. Its good that they plan to have a producing DEMO plant in the next two decades, but that still makes me think it would be several more till we have fusion power being pumped into the grid.
 
The thing that surprises me is that there is so little news about this. I wonder if there was more news and more documentaries about it would there be more funding and faster progress. Or is it a case that they already have unlimited funds.

Also Stig method that it may create black holes. It wont but we are chancing fate with a different experiment at CERN that may well produce "small" black holes. There is a Large Hadron Collider being switched on there next May and some scientist believe it will create black holes on earth!! But the people working on it say that Hawkings theory on black holes proves that the will just run out of energy within a second, lets hope that he was right or we may never see GT5!!
 
Sorry to drag up old threads, but I thought some of you may be interested in this. Its the biggest news about fusion in a long time, but should produce some good results, it should at least prove the theory.

BTW; how wrong was I about May '08 for CERN's switch on in my previous post. :P
 
I saw a Horizon episode called something along the lines of, 'can we make a star on earth?', by professor Brain Cox (a favourite presenter of mine). It showed a few main methods of Hydrogen fusion. The Laser fusion experiment in California looked promising. The turn on came sooner than I was expecting.
 
Ah, Brian Cox... Formerly of D:Ream and particularly famous for the quote:

"Anyone who thinks CERN will destroy the planet is a 🤬."

A guy who loves his physics and his plain-speaking :D
 
Last edited:
Often happens with young lads, Steve ;)

Completely agree, that was a very good horizon episode.
 

"Anyone who thinks CERN will destroy the planet is a 🤬"

Think I've said that a few times too! :lol:
The main stream media really annoyed me when it was initialising starting before the problems, they just blatantly lied to make it sound dramatic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Think I've said that a few times too! :lol:
The main stream media really annoyed me when it was initialising starting before the problems, they just blatantly lied to make it sound dramatic.

The media? Exaggerate things in order to make money? That's maaaadness!


Personally, I think if it does happen it'll be well over 50 years into the future. I still don't entirely understand this whole process, but the idea of Money Energy For Nothing doesn't quite sit right for me.

If this does eventually become a reality, it'll be interesting to see how the world starts behaving with regards to energy. Right now we're all panicking about wastefully heating up that extra 12ml of water in the kettle, and ensuring we conserve energy by flicking the lights off when we blink - will these eco idiosyncrasies stick around if/when energy is in abundance again?
 
and ensuring we conserve energy by flicking the lights off when we blink
I know you were just making an overly exaggerated point, but that would actually use more energy due to inrush. :)

As with any new technology, it'll take a while to perfect, prove that it's safe and economical enough to mass produce. How long all of that will take, or if it even works to begin with, will be interesting to follow.
 
TB
I know you were just making an overly exaggerated point, but that would actually use more energy due to inrush. :)

Thats what I was thinking of last week when there was that hour when everywhere was suppose to switch everything off. Surely the drop in energy demand caused problems for generation stations as well as a huge amount of energy to try and bring it back to normal an hour later?

As for the whole idea of the 'power of one', I think it is fundamentally flawed. Even if we all bring our CO2 levels down from say 8 ton to 6 ton the exponential growth of developing populations will do much more than wipe out those savings.

As for in the future electricity will still cost money, therefore people will not be too wasteful of it. Unless of course a yearly tax is just put on energy, in which case we could use as much as we wanted too, within the possibilities of the grid network. This may sound absurd and wrong but the energy from Hydrogen fusion is so great by the time we ran out of it here, we'd probably have seen a few economic crises on Mars!

As for how it works, I'll try and explain it briefly but there is some good links in this thread. Basically you get 2 Hydrogen isotopes blast them with an enormous amount of energy and then they fuse together forming a Helium atom and one lone neutron and releasing a colossal amount of energy.
We have already preformed this several times in H-bombs. A normal atomic bomb can be used to give the initial energy to start the fusion. But in the lab this reaction obviously has to be controlled and the initial energy has to be a minimum to start the reaction otherwise the released energy is less than the input and its also tricky to keep the reaction going without it runing away or stopping.
 
I've put 25-40 years, because I believe that the technology is nearly ready now, and that it will only be a matter of years until fusion reactors are capable of producing a sustainable net gain in energy... however, it will be a few decades until fusion energy becomes commonplace, and even then, they won't replace fossil fuels or existing nuclear energy for alot longer.

That said, I think it is inevitable that nuclear fusion will become the dominant source of energy eventually, so the only option I definitely wouldn't choose is "never"...
 
Personally, I think if it does happen it'll be well over 50 years into the future. I still don't entirely understand this whole process, but the idea of Money Energy For Nothing doesn't quite sit right for me.

Well, its no more 'free energy' than petrol is 'free energy'. Hydrocarbons could be considered free energy, because the energy they give out is a net gain, despite all the mining and refining. So while its free energy, its running out so we won't have 'free energy' for much longer, and that's before the potential adverse climate effects of combusting the stuff are considered.

All we are doing is releasing potential chemical energy stored in the hydrocarbon molecules bonds, to power the world. In much the same way, hydrogen fusion is releasing heaps of energy of hydrogen nuclei, stored as mass.

You have probably heard of the famous E=mc^2 equation. It tells us that energy and mass are directly interchangeable. Well that's exactly what happens in hydrogen fusion. Mass can be considered as an extremely dense form of energy, fusion turns all that mass into energy. The energy release is several orders of magnitude greater than the energy release of hydrocarbon combustion. I seem to remember reading that one gram of mass would release the energy equivalent of Tsar (or some other large nuclear blast) and we don't exactly have a shortage of hydrogen on our planet.

Hydrogen fusion is the reason the sun shines, if we could harness a fraction of that energy, that's our energy problem solved (for now :sly:). So that's all we have to do, easy.

Except as I stated earlier in this thread (when I didn't know much about the topic), fusion needs around 144 000 degrees celcius before it can occur, and containing that much heat isn't easy, also harnessing that energy into usable energy isn't easy either. Currently it takes more energy to initiate, contain and sustain fusion than we can currently get out of it. With further refining of the technique, and greater research, the process may actually yield a net gain of energy, once there is a a net gain we do have 'free energy' all we loose is a bit of the planets mass. Plenty to go round though :dopey:.

Interesting fact, the sun losses 40 million tonnes of mass per second due to fusion :scared: hopefully our apatite for energy will be a little more satiable.

{edit} I put 40-50 years last year, after reading up a bit, I am optimistic that we are only around 30 years away. I suspect greater funding will greatly improve the rate at which we progress, and a potential impending energy crisis will no doubt fuel such progression. There is still a case of if, but things are looking up, the first step is the laser fusion experiment in California, that turns on soon. :)
 
I think Jon's point on free energy was that it wouldn't cost anything financially per unit energy because it would become so abundant. However, set-up and maintenance costs are going to be quite high.
 
I don't think the oil companies would let such a profitable market go away because of small hydrogen plants at every house in the world. Hydrogen Fusion may be good for our environment but it is not good for our wallets.
 
Hydrogen Fusion may be good for our environment but it is not good for our wallets.
I wasn't aware that they had released prices for home installed fusion generators already...

Besides, aren't you willing to take a bit if a hit in the pocketbook to save money long term? I certainly am. Think those wind generators they're building like mad are cheap? Presumably a little closer to home - how about CFL's versus incandescent? Up front they are significantly more expensive, but if you run the numbers, you save money over their life, thus the reason my house is covered with them. If, and that's a mighty big if, fusion generators are sold as home units, you better believe that I'll be crunching numbers to see if it's a viable option over the electric company, just like I did with hybrids when I bought my Civic.
 
Back