Exactly, what is so bad about the NSX when compared to the old NSX?

[furryboy96]

It seems that the new NSX is really hated while the old NSX is loved by everyone. Exactly why is that? I hear price is one things but are there more problems? Personally, I love both the new NSX and the old NSX. They are both great cars.

 

[homeforsummer]

Off the top of my head, these are the usual complaints:

1) Too heavy
2) Too complicated
3) It's a hybrid and hybrids are bad for some reason
4) Something to do with the styling
5) New cars are all rubbish

I've driven both (that's me in the red car). Both would probably have a spot in my lottery garage. New and old are good at different things and appealing for slightly different reasons, but they're both fantastic cars.

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Price is a bit of a red herring complaint. Factor in inflation and the very first NSX all the way back in the early 90s (at $60k) would be a $110k car today. Less than the current $150k admittedly, but hardly a car for the people.

 

[Danoff]

New and old are good at different things and appealing for slightly different reasons, but they're both fantastic cars.

I quite like that actually. Honda didn't feel constrained by the original to one-up it at its own game. They moved on. I wish Hollywood would make sequels that stood on their own like that.

 

[VXR]

I saw a white NSX inside a dealership last weekend - somewhere between Blackburn and Darwen in the Ribble Valley - and it looked fantastic.

I don't get the hate.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I've warmed to the new car quite a bit. I originally thought it looked too much like an R8, but seeing it in person, its a rather unique thing. I'd like to drive one.

 

[sparkytooth]

I think it's a gorgeous car just like the original was for its time, the "fans" seem to hate it because it's not exactly the same as the original New Sportscar Xperimental.

 

[McLaren]

Most of the time, the complaints seem to come from people who've never driven it. Once they have, the flavor changes, and people like it. Those same people also usually end up with a conclusion similar to @homeforsummer's in that they do different things, but they do them very well. It would appear to me that on paper, the biggest reason for the new to share the name is because of how it drives next to the old one.

 

[FT-1]

I think the hate comes from keyboard warriors who expect modern supercars to still weigh under 1.5 tonnes, use a naturally aspirated ICE with 8 cylinders or more and have a manual gearbox and the new NSX is too technologically advanced for said haters to cope.

Given the "eXperimental" part of the name, I think the new NSX is more than worthy of the name since it uses cutting edge innovation to provide hypercar technology for supercar money. Look at what it does to a Mercedes-AMG GT-R in a standing drag race:

 

[TenEightyOne]

I think the hate comes from keyboard warriors who expect modern supercars to still weigh under 1.5 tonnes...

Surely one could expect that to be a given?

 

[FT-1]

Surely one could expect that to be a given?

With cars powered by internal combustion engines alone being phased out, I would imagine that weight would be harder for sub-£200k hybrid supercars to achieve if they want to achieve 0-60 times in less than 3 seconds.

 

[lbpomg95]

I personally love the way it looks, but at the same time, I can't help but wonder - would it have been any worse off if it was exactly the same as it is, but with no electric motors, a manual gearbox option, and a lower price point? I mean, would it be any less fun to drive without the insanely fast electric assistance? From a technical view the car's amazing either way though.

Though I'm still salty they never made an HSV road car, because noise.

 

[homeforsummer]

I personally love the way it looks, but at the same time, I can't help but wonder - would it have been any worse off if it was exactly the same as it is, but with no electric motors, a manual gearbox option, and a lower price point? I mean, would it be any less fun to drive without the insanely fast electric assistance?

Probably not, but that wouldn't have been very "Honda".

Making something conceptually no different than they did in 1990 isn't a forward step for a company that prides itself on engineering, any more than giving the Civic an air-cooled engine because the 1300S had one would be. If someone wants a car like an old NSX, they can buy an old NSX (and for now at least, that's still cheaper than buying a new one).

The electric components do add weight, but they also add a bunch of neat abilities that have objective improvements to the way the car drives - like incredibly quick responses to the accelerator pedal, torque vectoring, engine-off low-speed running, all-wheel drive traction without the need for a heavy mechanical all-wheel drive setup etc.

I do love people keep mentioning the price though, as if they'd be any more likely to buy a say, £100k supercar than a £150k supercar...

 

[lbpomg95]

Probably not, but that wouldn't have been very "Honda".

Making something conceptually no different than they did in 1990 isn't a forward step for a company that prides itself on engineering, any more than giving the Civic an air-cooled engine because the 1300S had one would be. If someone wants a car like an old NSX, they can buy an old NSX (and for now at least, that's still cheaper than buying a new one).

The electric components do add weight, but they also add a bunch of neat abilities that have objective improvements to the way the car drives - like incredibly quick responses to the accelerator pedal, torque vectoring, engine-off low-speed running, all-wheel drive traction without the need for a heavy mechanical all-wheel drive setup etc.

I do love people keep mentioning the price though, as if they'd be any more likely to buy a say, £100k supercar than a £150k supercar...

You're 100% right on price, I can't even afford an original NSX that's been wrecked - that's why I drive an old Volvo

But still I can't help but wonder. I still want them to make a Honda Fit/Jazz Type R

 

[homeforsummer]

I still want them to make a Honda Fit/Jazz Type R

I'm hoping, given Honda has confirmed it'll make the Urban EV concept, there may be a kind of Type R version of that - either fossil-fuelled or electric.

 

[lbpomg95]

I'm hoping, given Honda has confirmed it'll make the Urban EV concept, there may be a kind of Type R version of that - either fossil-fuelled or electric.

I don't care what's under the bonnet, as long as it looks like that concept I'm happy

 

[dan0543]

I think managing expectations was never going to go well given the success of the original, but for whatever reason I just think the new one is all about performance and misses the point of the nsx. I know the original was hardly the most affordable car in the world, but the gap in the market which it found was a relatively reasonable price and a pure, lightweight driving experience, of which the new one does neither. New safety regulations and laws mean that designs are always more complex and heavy in the interest of durability and safety, whether or not that fits into the nsx's principles. There are benefits to the new design but also pitfalls, and fans of the old nsx won't find the same spirit in the new one

 

[homeforsummer]

I just think the new one is all about performance and misses the point of the nsx.

It's open to interpretation, but I don't think that's quite it - the NSX is and always was about using technology and engineering to deliver the kind of performance that others did with larger engines, more power and greater expense, but remaining something you could use every day without compromise (and that last bit is particularly important for the NSX).

While it goes about it in different ways (it has to: the bar has been raised significantly since the original car debuted) it effectively has the same purpose - it's a car that can compete against Ferraris and McLarens but is arguably easier to use on a daily basis than either.

And again, not sure about the price thing. For some perspective, a 1990 NSX cost more than a 1990 Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (in the UK, the Honda was £55k and the 911 was £48k) and offered similar performance. Today an NSX competes with cars like the 911 Turbo, rather than the regular Carrera, but is actually slightly cheaper (£143k in the UK compared to £147k). That doesn't seem too bad to me, even if it's stepped up a market segment.

fans of the old nsx won't find the same spirit in the new one

That's more difficult to dispute, though I'm not sure there's a new car and predecessor you couldn't say that about, so it's unfair to level that criticism solely at the NSX. I think it probably doesn't help that people over-hype the original somewhat. Great car, but not quite the second coming of Christ.

 

[Tornado]

The original NSX was a direct shot at the bow of Ferrari, but one borne out and so historic because of the market at the time. The problem that Honda faced with the current one, which is very similar to the one that Toyota is facing with the Supra, is that not only are the Japanese not starting from the position of power that they had in the 1980se; but for the cars they would be competing with the complacency that existed when the Japanese bubble economy was around is gone.

The original NSX competed with the 964, 348 and Lotus Esprit. They were all updated versions of very old cars, controversial mish-mashes of new and old design ideals or brand new cars that happened to be terrible. The NSX, a clean sheet car from a company that hyped up how much of their Formula 1 expertise went into it and spent the decade riding wave after wave of success, was a revelation at the time. But all of those competitors learned their lesson fairly soon; which actually is why Honda's refusal to do anything with it over the next 15 years was such a waste. Within 4 years the 348 made way for the F355, the Esprit was significantly updated again and the 964 was replaced by the 993. Soon after that the Esprit got a V8 and the C5 Corvette dropped. Maybe the NSX didn't drive the segment in that direction like the Internet likes to claim when their only experience with it is Gran Turismo games; but the NSX was the first one in the segment that could probably be called a modern car just like the 300ZX was for the performance segment lower. The current NSX could be a lock for the best car in the segment and it still wouldn't make the waves the original did.




So Honda chasing the same targets with the new car doesn't really make much sense. Especially after Audi spent a decade parking the R8 in that exact market; never going more than two auto reviews without having the words "Modern Day NSX" pop up in there somewhere. For how underwhelming that sort of thing would have been for Honda to release in 2016, see what happened when the second generation R8 came out and was met with a collective shrug. It's a shame the NSX is such a lardass and sucks that Honda benchmarked cars and then put it into development for so long to make sure it comprehensively beat them that it launched after their successors dropped; but the modern NSX is still a culmination of Honda's best and brightest engineers working for nearly a decade on a worthy followup car. That is more then can be said if they had shoved the HSC out in 2004 with a hotted up Honda Odyssey engine or whatever, which is presumably is what "should" have been what the next NSX was.

 

[TheCracker]

I can’t say that I’ve come across any hate towards the new NSX. But perhaps there’s a decent level of indifference towards it due to the massively over long and over hyped incubation period. By the time it was actually released everyone had lost interest. No doubt the same will happen with the new Supra. Nothing can ever live up to half a decade of hype. You could say the same with the BRZ/GT86. The conception period seemed so long that it was never going to deliver what the hype surrounding it promised. The difference is that it’s an affordable car so you see plenty around. The new NSX isn’t cheap so you don’t see them around (even available in the UK yet?) so you just forget about them.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I haven't seen hate for it - is it an online phenomenon?

Only seen one in the flesh and it was mesmerising....

 

[homeforsummer]

I can’t say that I’ve come across any hate towards the new NSX. But perhaps there’s a decent level of indifference towards it due to the massively over long and over hyped incubation period. By the time it was actually released everyone had lost interest. No doubt the same will happen with the new Supra. Nothing can ever live up to half a decade of hype. You could say the same with the BRZ/GT86. The conception period seemed so long that it was never going to deliver what the hype surrounding it promised. The difference is that it’s an affordable car so you see plenty around. The new NSX isn’t cheap so you don’t see them around (even available in the UK yet?) so you just forget about them.

The subtext to those long gestation periods is that the manufacturers are working really hard to get the cars right. The Toyobaru has its faults but it's still a fantastic car to drive, and the NSX is excellent too. I can't see Toyota hashing up the Supra too badly either - having spoken to its chief engineer he knows how important the car is to people - but I'm sure you're right and people will complain that it's not as good as its over-hyped predecessor...

 

[TheCracker]

The subtext to those long gestation periods is that the manufacturers are working really hard to get the cars right. The Toyobaru has its faults but it's still a fantastic car to drive, and the NSX is excellent too. I can't see Toyota hashing up the Supra too badly either - having spoken to its chief engineer he knows how important the car is to people - but I'm sure you're right and people will complain that it's not as good as its over-hyped predecessor...

Yeah, i'm sure they are all great cars - but as you've pointed out in the past, manufacturers rarely release lemons these days. I'd have to lay blame on the manufacturers for the hype or over-hype. I'm sure a lot of the time those paparazzi test mule spy-shots have marketing departments behind them. It's like those bikini 'paparazzi' shots of some soap-star that no one gives a damn about appearing in the tabloids organised by their publicist. I'd also partly blame *cough* the motoring press for those early test-mule reviews of a car that isn't even going to see a motorshow for another 18 months. But then i know all too well that those column inches won't fill themselves.

 

[homeforsummer]

That's possibly a little unfair in the case of the NSX (and many others, too) as most of the spy shots of that car were snapped doing perfectly normal things in the same situation as any other car being tested. You can only get so far into development before you're papped at the Nurburgring or in Death Valley and people start talking about a new NSX.

They're not JLR or Ford, in other words, wrapping their test cars in neon with "this is the new XXXXX" written in enormous letters down the side.

I think the bigger problem for the NSX was that Honda made a move at replacing the old car a few times and never quite followed through with it, so the anticipation for another NSX was always high. The over-hype though is I think purely an internet problem - people work themselves into a froth over the replacement of a car that launched decades ago (one they've no doubt built up to insanely high esteem in their minds) and then wonder why said replacement isn't powered by an 18k rpm V12, sprinkled in diamonds and available new for the price of a ten-year old Civic.

 

[TonyJZX]

I think when it comes down to it, its all about sales...

why does the Ford GT sell out? Why does Ferrari require new buyers to have purchased a Ferrari in the past?

Why is it that dealers have heaps of NSX stock and you can get deep discounts?

My feeling is that besides all the criticisms, the styling just isnt there. Its one of those supercars that looks like it came out of GTA5.

Its not a car people really lust after... I myself love stuff like the McLaren 720 and even the lower end like the Ultima 1020 but the new NSX? Its not like its a 02 Type R is it?

 

[TheCracker]

My feeling is that besides all the criticisms, the styling just isnt there. Its one of those supercars that looks like it came out of GTA5.

It boils down to an over-familiarity with the shape too. You've been seeing test mules and magazine renders of it for years before it's officially unveiled. By the time it's relesed it just has no impact anymore. Yes, there is certainly an element of generic supercar about the new NSX's shape - but then the original NSX was pretty 'generic mid-engined' supercar at the time as well. That's not such a bad thing as it stops them from dating so quickly. R34 Skylines, 300ZX's and Mitsubishi 3000GT's have all aged quite badly IMO. The cleaner styled more generic shaped FD RX7, A80 Supra and the NSX all still look fairly fresh.

Supercars always look much more striking in the flesh though. For some reason, low and wide never translates that way in photos.

 

[homeforsummer]

Supercars always look much more striking in the flesh though. For some reason, low and wide never translates that way in photos.

Absolutely this for the NSX, too. When I drove the red one in Tokyo I was amazed - it was the first time I'd seen the car outside of pictures or motorshow stands and it looked genuinely stunning - low and wide and much more visually interesting than pics suggest.

Small too - I was expecting it to dwarf the original but while it's a bit wider, it doesn't look a whole lot bigger in the metal.

As per Jalopnik, the reason there are NSXs being discounted at dealers is explained by Acura below:

The NSX is a made-to-order vehicle, but in some cases, dealers have ordered inventory units, especially early in production, to showcase front-and-center in their dealerships. Most new buyers are special ordering NSXs to their unique, individual taste, opting to wait for a custom build rather than purchase a unit from inventory. In addition, many of these customers are visiting the Performance Manufacturing Center in Ohio to witness and participate in the build of their custom car.

In certain cases, we’ve provided lease and financing assistance to our dealers to help them find homes for inventory units. Ultimately, we want NSXs on the road, as there’s no better way to build awareness for the car or the brand. We remain incredibly happy with how the NSX has been received by our customers.

While there's an element of "well they would say that" to it, that does make sense.

A far simpler explanation of why it's the case wouldn't be the styling for me, but simply that it's an Acura/Honda. McLarens and Ferraris don't hang around long (or don't seem to) because they're McLarens and Ferraris.

 

[TonyJZX]

I get ya, Ferraris and Lambos seem to always go thru heaps of models... I mean how many Gallardo types were there. I get tired of all the versions of italian supercars out.

This has parallels with the LFA... you can buy new LFA's now, right now in pretty much every market LHD or RHD and they onlt made 375.

It seems to me Japanese supercars have a problem... a credibiity problem.

 

[TheCracker]

It seems to me Japanese supercars have a problem... a credibiity problem.

It's more a badge problem. Lamborghini and Ferrari make exotic supercars. Honda and Toyota make city hatchbacks. You can stick as many Acura or Lexus badges on as you want but people still know who they're really dealing with.

 

[cdubbbs]

For the purists, they're upset. I don't blame them for their opinion, that's just one crowd within the car community. Others are very satisfied with the introduction of all the new technology.
Its similar to when Porsche went water-cooled, the older purist owners were furious (they still are) but nobody I know that owns a newer water-cooled 911 variant seems to be complaining.
What's wrong with the new NSX? According to the more traditional guys their answer is "because it isn't like the original".

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Absolutely this for the NSX, too. When I drove the red one in Tokyo I was amazed - it was the first time I'd seen the car outside of pictures or motorshow stands and it looked genuinely stunning - low and wide and much more visually interesting than pics suggest.

Small too - I was expecting it to dwarf the original but while it's a bit wider, it doesn't look a whole lot bigger in the metal.

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This is actually very surprising to me considering how small the original NSX is: