F1 Returns to USA - COTA - Bring on 2013!!

[Northstar]

If any american people read this can you confirm everything goes smoothly ? I've read an article not so long ago about Austin might beeing canceled because there's 15 millions that no one wants to pay or something like that. Anyone heard anything about that ?

All seems to be going well, they recently even picked up another investor.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

While the circuit did finally reach an important milestone in construction with yesterday's "Topping Out" ceremony - this project has many problems yet to be solved, no more so than the drastically inadequate roads leading in and out of the circuit, with traffic engineers estimating delays as much as 12 hours on race day if they fail to improve the roads. Originally the Circuit of the Americas would be financially responsible for improving the roads, but then they backed off and have asked the city to pay for the improvements, which they have refused to do.

Complicating the matter is the ongoing dispute over ownership and management of the circuit, which just got even more complicated with the announcement that Red McCombs and Bobby Epstein each want to buy the other one out, and neither one is willing to sell. Throw in the lawsuit from Tavo Hellmund claiming he is still part of the management team, and has not been paid since September, and you have quite the recipe for disaster.

Not to mention the pretty ugly and greedy way that McCombs and Epstein basically forced Tavo Hellmund out of the deal despite the fact that he was the one that initiated it in the first place, and arguably is the only reason F1 even considered having a race in Austin.

That said, Tavo Hellmund is not without fault, and he sort of set himself up to get left out of the deal, but the bottom line is that the overwhelming desire for power and money from a notorious billionaire is what really sealed Hellmund's fate... and it now looks like Epstein is next in line to the McComb's blood stained chopping block.

The question for race fans is how will all of this impact this race in the future - only time will tell.

 

[GTPorsche]

Ticket prices have started to be unveiled.

http://circuitoftheamericas.com/tickets

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

Ticket prices have started to be unveiled.

http://circuitoftheamericas.com/tickets

So I'm not really understanding the charts. I know you match the colors but the Seasonal/PSL aren't really making much of a sense to me. I don't understand why you would want a Seasonal pass since this only happens once a year?
Anyknow a bit more knowledgeable about F1 tickets?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Yeah I don't understand it either.

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

Yeah I don't understand it either.

I JUST WANT TO GO TO THE RACE!!! AHHHHHHH

 

[hawkeye122]

Seasonal as in you can go watch any event? ALMS, Indy, WTCC, DTM, MotoGP?

 

[Northstar]

Here is an article that seems to explain it.

Basically you pay for dibs on a certain seat, actual ticket not included.

I'm sure non-PSL tickets will be available, they are just trying to get companies/rich people to fork over their money first.

 

[astrosdude91]

I have a well off friend who is purchasing several seat save things, probably four. Basically the seat is yours, and you pay like $500 for the event, which is way cheaper than the standard prices. But if you don't want to go to a certain event, say you don't really care to see MotoGP or something, the seat is still yours, so you can sell the ticket for that particular event to someone else, and make quite a nice profit. It's actually a pretty good investment. Luckily one of the seat saves already has my name on it, so I'll have a nice grandstand seat come November.

 

[bermudakid]

I'm assuming there will be General admission tickets too?? Where people can sit on a hill or behind a fence somewhere and watch .

I go to Indy races and Rolex 24 every year, and im just happy to be there. Listen to the race on my phone and just watch the cars go round the track.

 

[McLaren]

Looks like you have to have had some marshaling experience before hand.

Not surprising considering the pedigree of the sport. Would be badass though.

And I second the general admission. It's cool that you can buy the rights to tickets for the next 15 years, but I don't like how you pay for the right to the seats & then the cost of the tickets as well. It's a big negative around the Cowboys stadium in Arlington as they do the same thing.

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

I'm assuming there will be General admission tickets too?? Where people can sit on a hill or behind a fence somewhere and watch .

I go to Indy races and Rolex 24 every year, and im just happy to be there. Listen to the race on my phone and just watch the cars go round the track.

yeah hopefully. this is ultimately what I'm looking at purchasing.
I just can't see myself going to a motor race and sitting on bleachers... what am I watching? basketball?!?!?!

I want to jump up and down when I see Alonso going by. I am going to be in my full tifosi gear!!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Progress update!

The first paving at CotA has gone down - you can clearly see a tarmac run-off on the exit of the first turn:

And here is an interesting read on how Tavo Hellmund and Kevin Schwantz came up with the design of the circuit.

And this is the first draft of the circuit design (dated January 2007) by Hellmund, with his notes:

The circuit does not just borrow from Silverstone, Istanbul and Hockenheim, but also has corners loosely based on Interlagos (the Senna 'S'), the Österreichring (that long right-hander at the top end of the circuit), Brands Hatch (Dingle Dell) and Oulton Park. At one point, the circuit was also going to feature a replica of Suzuka's 130R (listed as R130 here), but the idea was scrapped in favour of Istanbul's Turn 8.

 

[astrosdude91]

I spy Eau Rouge heading up to turn one. That would've been interesting to see.

 

[nitrorocks]

I saw Eau Rouge too. Didn't they try to put a lot of famous sections of other tracks into this one? I they did, they put La Source in.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I spy Eau Rouge heading up to turn one. That would've been interesting to see.

Not really. There is already an Eau Rouge at Eau Rouge. And looking at maps of the circuit, it would not have fit - Eau Rouge is a high-speed chicane, but the circuit then doubles back on itself at the top of the hill. There wouldn't have been enough run-off to accomodate it.

Besides, Eau Rouge is over-rated. There was a time when it was epic, but as the teams started finding more and more downforce, the challenge was slowly torn away from the corner. These days, the cars can take it flat out without a problem.

I they did, they put La Source in.

No, they didn't. If you read the link I supplied, you would have seen this:

In 2007, when he was roughing out a sketch and making notes on the track, Hellmund faced a dilemma at the very first turn — should it be similar to the famous uphill Eau Rouge sequence at Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium, or Turn One at the old Österreichring in Austria?

Hellmund eventually went with a personal memory, recalling a lap in a BMW M6 in Austria's scenic Styrian Mountains when he was working for Ecclestone's Brabham team.

"I was in passenger seat with Nelson Piquet driving," Hellmund recalled. Back then Piquet, an F1 world champion, made a hard right after the uphill climb to the Hella-Licht chicane. At the Circuit of the Americas the turn is more severe — well past 90 degrees — and breaks to the left instead of the right.

"It's a little bit of an optical illusion; you're still running 180 or 190 (miles-an-hour). You're braking and you're still going uphill," Hellmund said. Drivers will drop to 70 miles-an-hour as they round the corner.

The turn was later altered after Tilke received feedback from former F1 driver Alexander Wurz, who had ran the track through a McLaren simulator.

The turn was widened, but not in the way suggested, which was to add asphalt on the outside.

Schwantz and Hellmund figured a driver who took an outside line would either crash or have to lay off the gas if his gambit didn't work. Instead, they asked that the turn be widened on the inside.

It's not La Source.

 

[astrosdude91]

Not really. There is already an Eau Rouge at Eau Rouge. And looking at maps of the circuit, it would not have fit - Eau Rouge is a high-speed chicane, but the circuit then doubles back on itself at the top of the hill. There wouldn't have been enough run-off to accomodate it.

Besides, Eau Rouge is over-rated. There was a time when it was epic, but as the teams started finding more and more downforce, the challenge was slowly torn away from the corner. These days, the cars can take it flat out without a problem.

I was referring to the scratch drawing Tavo made. Heading into turn one, it would appear that he had an idea to put in Eau Rouge. You can see it in the picture.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yes, I know what you meant. And I'm saying it wouldn't work because of the shape of the circuit. Once they started tightening up the first corner, there would be no space for run-off. So instead of mimicking Spa at the start, they've taken cues from the Österreichring, which I think is better because we already have Spa on the calendar. As far as I know, the old Österreichring does not exist anymore, but it used to have a fantastic uphill climb to the first corner. And that's what they've gone for here: being inspired by what is now lost, rather than apeing what already exists.

 

[astrosdude91]

Looks like the world of Formula One will be coming to Austin this summer for the Formula Expo. According to the official website, there will be exhibitions, pit stop demonstrations, and driver appearances, among other things. No word on which drivers will make appearances, hopefully a few current drivers will show up. I'm sure Mario Andretti will be there. He'll show up to anything that writes him a check.

Should be interesting. I'll be sure to go. I'm not sure if they do this whenever a new GP is about to come to town, but it's cool that they are doing it in Austin.

http://formulaexpo.com/

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

There will also be F1 simulators using the CotA track at the expo for those that want to get an early preview of racing on the new course. There will also be an updated physical and 3D model of the circuit as part of the exhibit.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The first layer of tarmac is going down on the circuit (the one I posted the other day was a run-off area)! This was taken from the straight between Turn 19 and 20:

Looks like they're about six weeks ahead of schedule.

 

[nitrorocks]

Awesome! That looks like some very nice asphalt.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's going to be torn up; it's just a test. But the test itself a very important step. The composition of the tarmac is a very exact science. Subtle changes to the mixture can influence grip levels, durability, settling rates and a whole host of other factors. Take, for example, Montreal - the surface there has very low grip. This is because the tarmac is not porous. Because Montreal is so far north, the city often experiences snow and freezing conditions in the winter, and this is problem because water can seep into the porous tarmac and then freeze. As any sixth-grader can tell you, when water freezes, it expands. And when it expands in the porous tarmac, it damages the surface. So in order to coutnermand this process, the tarmac in Montreal is much less porous. The water cannot filter down to the base, so the surface cannot be damaged as much as it might normally. Inversely, there is less for the tyres to grip onto because there is very little space between the stones that make up the tarmac.

In Texas, the opposite holds. Because of the roasting summer temperatures, the integrity of the surface can buckle and break. We can see this in Elroy Road, one of the roads leading into the circuit - over time, the traffic has steadily pushed the road out of shape. Where it was once straight, it now curves slightly. This is obviously something everyone involved in the CotA project will be eager to avoid (the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix experienced a similar phenomenon), and although Tilke employs a group of chemical engineers specifically for the purposes of making the perfect tarmac mix, they're obviously going to want to test the tarmac first to make sure they get it right. Once they do, they'll tear it up, rebuild the section of road base at that corner, and start sealing the surface. At a guess, I'd say the first layer (of three) will go down at the end of the month.

 

[hawkeye122]

We already have Spa on the calendar.

We also already have Silverstone, Istanbul and Hockenheim.

 

[jcm]

We also already have Silverstone, Istanbul and Hockenheim.

Was that really needed?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

We also already have Silverstone, Istanbul and Hockenheim.

I'm aware of that. However, unlike Silverstone, the corners at CotA will have elevation all through them, and there are several corners either side of the Silverstone section.

As for Hockenheim, it only appears every other year, and the section that was copied is hardly iconic. The corner in question is also repeated and mirrored.

And Istanbul is no longer on the calendar. The corner at CotA is, is downhill, faster, blind and has the minimum amount of run-off allowed by the rules.

The point I'm trying to make is that the corners at CotA are markedly different to the ones they have been borrowed from. But putting a replica of Eau Rouge on the main straight would have been a near-perfect remake of the corner. There wouldn't be anything to differentiate it, and that would make it boring.

 

[hawkeye122]

Was that really needed?

Somewhat. I didnt see his point about not liking copied corners in the case of Spa, but not the other 3.

He has clarified, and it makes much more sense to me.

 

[jcm]

Somewhat. I didnt see his point about not liking copied corners in the case of Spa, but not the other 3.

He has clarified, and it makes much more sense to me.

Fair enough.

I have to say they're doing a great job building this track 👍

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I have to say they're doing a great job building this track 👍

I agree. Despite facing serious problems, they're about six weeks ahead of schedule. They expect to be done some time in August-September, with the race due to be held on November 18. Two months before they were due to hold races, India and South Korea were nowhere near ready. Even construction at Abu Dhabi was still underway with two months left.

 

[nitrorocks]

It's going to be torn up; it's just a test. But the test itself a very important step. The composition of the tarmac is a very exact science. Subtle changes to the mixture can influence grip levels, durability, settling rates and a whole host of other factors. Take, for example, Montreal - the surface there has very low grip. This is because the tarmac is not porous. Because Montreal is so far north, the city often experiences snow and freezing conditions in the winter, and this is problem because water can seep into the porous tarmac and then freeze. As any sixth-grader can tell you, when water freezes, it expands. And when it expands in the porous tarmac, it damages the surface. So in order to coutnermand this process, the tarmac in Montreal is much less porous. The water cannot filter down to the base, so the surface cannot be damaged as much as it might normally. Inversely, there is less for the tyres to grip onto because there is very little space between the stones that make up the tarmac.

In Texas, the opposite holds. Because of the roasting summer temperatures, the integrity of the surface can buckle and break. We can see this in Elroy Road, one of the roads leading into the circuit - over time, the traffic has steadily pushed the road out of shape. Where it was once straight, it now curves slightly. This is obviously something everyone involved in the CotA project will be eager to avoid (the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix experienced a similar phenomenon), and although Tilke employs a group of chemical engineers specifically for the purposes of making the perfect tarmac mix, they're obviously going to want to test the tarmac first to make sure they get it right. Once they do, they'll tear it up, rebuild the section of road base at that corner, and start sealing the surface. At a guess, I'd say the first layer (of three) will go down at the end of the month.

Yeah I knew that. Just like IMS. The surface is very very good, but there is a lot of snow and freezing temperatures in the winter. Also, I know Magny-Cours has one of the best surfaces in the world. The workers should find that mix, unless the Texas weather won't be compatible with a Magny-Cours mix.