Family Cup fun

[ianmcnll]

I've been playing a lot of GT4 lately, and, don't see any reason to get a PS3 and GT5 as I keep finding ways of making races more interesting.

For instance, in the Family Cup races, I have a certain set of restrictions/settings that make it a lot more challenging, and even closer to "real life" driving.

After I choose the car, I go to it's relevant tune shop, and I add (but do not install) all upgrades in each section (except for port/polish/displacement).

I disable all driving aids.

I generally start out with a totally stock vehicle (oil change only if it is "used") with difficulty set at 5 and only using N3 tires. As the race starts, I check to see if the A-Spec points are at least over 100, as this seems to be a reasonably difficult level.


If the car wins too easily, I then up the horsepower a bit (to race with more challenging opponents), and re-enter the track/race, making sure A-Spec is still at least 100...if it is under, I remove/lower various HP upgrades until it is around 100 A-Spec.

Sometimes I may alter suspension settings or gear ratios...things that can actually be accomplished on a real car (if you have the money).

I find the resulting races a lot of fun and very close to the real world situation. At 64 years of age, I am a total GT4 enthusiast, and I use a Logitech G-25 wheel/pedals...this really adds to the realism. I have owned several high performance cars (mostly Japanese), but GT4 lets me drive at levels that would equal many driving infractions, not to mention the danger involved when using a real vehicle.

I really enjoy this forum and I have picked up many invaluable tips and it's made my gaming experience more enjoyable.

My preference has always been "N" series tires, with N2 being the tires delivered with the real world car, and N3 being a tire upgrade most owners would add to their car for track/road racing. I find S and R rated tires have way too much grip and offer little challenge, but, that's the beauty of GT4...we all can usually find something that suits our needs.

Most challenging track, for me, is Opera Paris.

Thanks for a great forum guys, and it is heartening to see so many users still finding joy in GT4...it is one terrific game.

Ian

 

[BH-21]

Hi Ian. Like any computer game, its up to you how to enjoy it within the confines programmers set. Cheers!

 

[ianmcnll]

Hey, BH-1...you are right. I have tried several other suggestions on various ways of playing from other members, and they've been a lot of fun. So far, playing the Family Cup with my little set of restrictions has been the most rewarding for me...but, we are fortunate the game has such a broad scope to include all kinds of methods of play.

I may get a PS3 and GT6 when available...or will it be a PS4?

My other favorite PS2 game, is Ico, which is totally different type game.

Ian

 

[BobK]

Glad you're having fun with the game! In case you didn't know it, a race with six identical cars (generally only possible in certain Manufacturers' Cup races) is 60 A-Spec points so your choice of a 100 point cutoff is a good one.

Something you may find of interest is seeing how many A-Spec points you can amass. You don't have to go off the deep end with it as some do (NOS, corner-cutting, a driving style that would make an old school NASCAR driver blush, etc).

I have a question on what you're doing though, why buy all the tuning parts if you don't use them?

 

[GTvsForza]

In case you didn't know it, a race with six identical cars (generally only possible in certain Manufacturers' Cup races) is 60 A-Spec points so your choice of a 100 point cutoff is a good one.

Except for the Opel Speedster Cup which is SUPER hard.

 

[ianmcnll]

I have a question on what you're doing though, why buy all the tuning parts if you don't use them?

Bob, after I posted, I figured someone would ask me that...<grin>

What I do, is race with a completely stock car (with N3 tires), then, after racing it this way for several tracks, I up the horsepower by going with Race Exhaust, Chip, and maybe a NA ( or Turbo) upgrade.

I re-enter the same track, again at Difficulty 5, and my opponents are now at a different level of car, i.e. my car might be a Skyline GT-R with around 300 stock HP, and I may bump it it to 450 or so...the new race will have higher level opponents (for example, Zonda or Ford GT...depending on how high I upgrade), and if the A-Spec points are under 100, I can remove upgrades incrementally until they are over 100, perhaps downgrading exhaust to Semi-Race or Sport), which, of course, makes it more challenging.

Let's say I use a 1989 GT-R with 6.2 miles on it...I don't change the oil, and stock HP is 309. At difficulty level 5, my opponents would be Honda NSX, Mazda RX-8 Concept, Subaru Impreza...all cars with similar power/weight ratio. The A-Spec is usually around 98-100 depending on field. It usually is a nice challenge.

If successful at winning on several different tracks (the A-Spec and opponents usually remain the same), I then go to the Toolbox(Settings) and up the horsepower to something in the 400 HP range...Racing Exhaust, Chip, and Turbine Level 2 brings it to 458 hp.

If I enter a completely new race and track, and the A-Spec is below 95-99, I simply remove upgrades gradually (exhaust to "semi-racing" perhaps) until the race opens with over 100 A-Spec. The opponents are now TVR Tuscan, Viper, BMW M5 etc., again, depending on how much horsepower I add.

With N3 tires giving the most realistic feel (in my opinion), an A-Spec level of 100 or so is pretty cool..some tracks, like Opera Paris are very hard ( and usually only certain cars are capable of winning using N3's)...

Certain upgrades do not affect A-Spec points, like suspension types and Gearbox/clutch/flywheel combos..it appears A-Spec is primarily based on car horsepower/weight, type of tire being used, use of an added wing, so, in effect, you can have the option of setting up the car if you wish.

I try to add upgrades that can easily be added/removed, so weight reduction and port/polishing/balancing/displacement aren't considered.

My purpose of using Family Cup in this way, is to try and make the racing experience as realistic as possible...only way it could be better, again, in my opinion, is to have more than the 2 lap limit.

Several posters here have suggested N-series tires as being the most realistic simulation, and I agree with them wholeheartedly. GT4 is one terrific game...I have had it since it was introduced, and the experience took on an even better level of challenge and realism when I upgraded to the Logitech G-25.

Ian

PS...one of the best handling cars on N3's, in my opinion, is the RUF RGT.

 

[BobK]

Ah okay, that explanation makes sense.

Certain upgrades do not affect A-Spec points, like suspension types and Gearbox/clutch/flywheel combos..it appears A-Spec is primarily based on car horsepower/weight, type of tire being used, use of an added wing, so, in effect, you can have the option of setting up the car if you wish.

Specifically, there are four things (only) that affect A-Spec points from a given car's "base value", other than the opposition cars of course. They are horsepower, weight, tires on the front axle only, and downforce. Nothing else matters, not suspension type or settings, transmission type or settings, not even NOS.

I try to add upgrades that can easily be added/removed, so weight reduction and port/polishing/balancing/displacement aren't considered.

I do that as well, using only reversible/removeable mods. Especially in the case of the one-time-only prize cars such as the license test prize cars.

My purpose of using Family Cup in this way, is to try and make the racing experience as realistic as possible...only way it could be better, again, in my opinion, is to have more than the 2 lap limit.

You can set the number of laps to anything you wish in the Arcade Mode races, but you lose most of your tuning options. You still get to select the difficulty level and there are still A-Spec points though. Give it a try, it may suit your purposes very well.

 

[ianmcnll]

Thanks for the suggestions, Bob...I have tried the Arcade, and it is a lot of fun too, but I really miss having the adjustments, especially gear ratios etc.

I've raced cars with the stock tranny that could hardly keep up with the pack, and then by using the "tranny trick" or even just changing the final drive and using auto set, the car can transform into something so much faster.

Also, using the racing clutch and flywheel can make a big difference, and having the right gear and revs in a corner really gives the driver so much more control...you can "steer" with the throttle.

What difficulty level do you use on Arcade? Also, in Arcade, we are restricted to certain tires as well as tuning i.e. Race Cars can't use Road or Sports Tires

Also, in the Family Cup (and also Arcade), the opponent cars are equipped with the same tires. I like using the Racing Cars like the Bentley with S-series tires rather than R-series...again, more realistic, in my view.

I didn't know that the tires only on the front axle made a difference...good tip. Thanks.

Now and again I'll get a 100 A-spec point race, and one of the cars is just so much faster, and if it was "stock", my car would ordinarily be at least equal.

The most challenging track for me in Family Cup is Opera Paris...a few of the turns are 1st gear, and being limited to 2 laps means you really have to get everything right. Suzuka is another course I like, especially since it is based on a real track.

I've done the game all the way through twice, and now I'm finding other ways of maximizing the fun and enhancing the realism...how about you? Are you still using only GT4? I honestly have not felt the need to upgrade like I did when coming from GT3. I feel GT4 is what GT3 should have been. Of course, to get GT5 I'd also have to get a PS3...I can't justify it right now, especially if it would be for basically one game, although, I suppose GT4 can be played on PS3.

I have a brand new PS2 still in the box and a new still in the pack GT4 game disk...the Logitech G-25 wheel is holding up really well...I'm very impressed with it.

It says a lot about the game when there are still some players enjoying it even years after release. I used to play a lot of Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, but it just didn't have nearly the same realistic feel as GT4, although it was challenging (and great fun) in a different way. It took quite a bit of adjusting to go from NFS to GT4.

This forum has given me some terrific suggestions, car settings, and challenges...I especially like posts that are about using N-series tires and relatively "stock" vehicles, although using the Race cars on the S-series tires is always a hoot.

Where else can we average incomers have the opportunity to get some idea of how it feels to drive an Aston Martin Vanquish, especially at the limit? And we never have to worry about insurance, maintenance and Johnny Law.

I am very glad to see you and a few others still visiting this forum...thanks.

Ian

 

[shotamagee]

I'd just like to add that certain tracks are easier than others with regards to A-spec points (not the actual track difficulty), ie 100 points @ La Sarthe should be pretty tough, but with the same car and opponents 100 points @ El Capitan, should be much easier. It's because the AI's way points (if that makes sense) are better at some tracks compared to others.

For which cars are useful for winning high point races, look at the 200 point sub-forum or see my signature.

 

[BobK]

I'd certainly agree on the transmission, a full racing box is pretty much a required mod in my opinion. To be honest I usually just use autoset, tweaking the final drive for the track. I have found that a lot of fiddling around with individual ratios after autoset gets you close is not a terribly efficient use of time; more gains are often to be had by spending the time practicing.

One thing that cracks me up on a lot of the "canned tunes" is they are very precise on how to set the gearing. Usually with no mention of the track the setup is for. Opera Paris requires a completely different gearing setup than La Sarthe, for instance.

Difficulty in arcade mode (or family cup, for that matter), well, it depends on a lot of things, primarily my mood, the car I'm driving, and the track. If I'm driving a Suzuki GS-X R/4 (one of my favorite cars) I'll set the difficulty higher. And as shotamagee points out, the AI is better at some tracks than others.

I spent some time with GT5 when it first came out, got bored with it rather quickly because it doesn't have anywhere near the breadth and depth GT4 has. I don't expect GT5 will have anywhere near the longevity that GT4 has had, particularly after GT6 comes out and Sony shuts down the servers for GT5 online racing.

The last time I played GT4 was yesterday. I'm still drinking my morning coffee today

 

[ianmcnll]

I agree about the Full Customization Gearbox as pretty much being a necessity, especially on the older "muscle" cars and older sports cars...most of those came with a 4-speed box that becomes rather useless when you do any engine upgrades.

I rarely use the tranny trick, but a few cars seem to benefit from it...the aforementioned muscle cars, for instance. I generally have a good idea of how gear ratios work, and, as you say Bob, the final drive seems to be the most important. Opera Paris seems to require a higher(numerically) final drive, whereas Sarthe is best served with a lower(numerically) ratio...of course, it will depend on the engine's characteristics and at what rpm you get the best torque/horsepower.

I haven't tried any 200 A-Spec point races using N-series tires...I have raced quite a few using S-series, so I may try to set up a few races using the former. I also want to see how I can add a wing and still keep the points high.

The Suzuki GS-X R/4 is a real nice car and one of my favorites as well. I also like the Aston Martin DB9 and Vanquish...lovely engine sounds and with the "close" gearbox and "sport" exhaust, and of course, triple clutch and racing flywheel, they make a lovely noise, and even with just sport suspension is a nice handler. The Vanquish at 485 hp (sport exhaust and chip...no oil change) generally gets at least 100 A-Spec points (on N3's) and offers a good challenge, depending on track, of course. If it comes in under 100 I usually remove the chip and that gets it back over.

I use the A-Spec points as a rough indicator of how difficult the race will be, although as shotamagee says, it depends on the track. I will check out the 200 point sub forum.

I have two buddies who have GT5 and both are now back to playing GT4...I'm rather glad to hear that, as I'm not ready to buy another platform yet, and with the Logitech G-25, I'm very content with my present set up.

Again, I'd like to say that this forum has been a great help to me, and has given new life to my GT4 gaming experience...thanks to all.

I play almost every day...usually in the evening and for about an hour or so.

Ian

 

[ianmcnll]

Just want to add, Bob...for me, the Suzuki GS-X R/4 is such a hoot because of it's balance...you can hang the tail out quite far and still bring it back and I use it with the standard suspension, N3 tires and no weight reduction. Just Race Exhaust, chip, and NA increased to give a total of 227 hp..."Close" transmission, triple clutch, race flywheel, 1.5 LSD. It's just redlining (screamin') at 11,000 rpm in 6th gear on Suzuka's main straight...a lot of fun for sure, but the great balance, even with stock suspension is what makes it so cool.

Ian