Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out
- Thread starter Crispy
- 13,388 comments
- 1,323,126 views
- 963
- Toronto, Canada
- times_fade
Ya well, it's still one thing to be "lucky" enough to patent an idea, especially back in the mid-90's where new ideas where flying wild, yet another to then put it good use. Honestly the "feedback" idea was inevitably going to come from others in the gaming industry, it's just a common sense progression.... I'm not saying that Immersion weren't entitled to anything, but in this case I think Sony was unfairly treated in the courts.
Just because Sony were able to push all those controllers with the idea, to me, doesn't give Microsoft the right to use the same idea later on for much less money. I think they should have been treated equal...now I'm curious to know how Nintendo bypassed this with the N64 "add-on" Rumble packs on their controllers?
And now.... back to Fanatec products discussions
Ya well, it's still one thing to be "lucky" enough to patent an idea, especially back in the mid-90's where new ideas where flying wild, yet another to then put it good use. Honestly the "feedback" idea was inevitably going to come from others in the gaming industry, it's just a common sense progression.... I'm not saying that Immersion weren't entitled to anything, but in this case I think Sony was unfairly treated in the courts.
Just because Sony were able to push all those controllers with the idea, to me, doesn't give Microsoft the right to use the same idea later on for much less money. I think they should have been treated equal...now I'm curious to know how Nintendo bypassed this with the N64 "add-on" Rumble packs on their controllers?
And now.... back to Fanatec products discussions
How do you define equally?
One company infringed more than the other by the number of devices sold. For damages on a patent you pay what a license fee would have been and a license fee is generally on a per device basis.
Nintendo supposedly uses different tech.
- 963
- Toronto, Canada
- times_fade
^^ Sony's success doesn't have much to do with this "DualShock" controllers, sure a cool thing, but like I said, it's questionable as to why Mircrosoft didn't get fined as a "per device basis", it looks like they bought the rights for much cheaper, without the courts taking into account the profits they'll be making in the future (Sony too).
Anyway, with all due respect, I'll just call it luck, where Immersion did the right thing at the right time, yet without Sony's Playstation, the technology obviously wouldn't have been put to use that successfully. I'm sure they love every minute of it.
Anyway, with all due respect, I'll just call it luck, where Immersion did the right thing at the right time, yet without Sony's Playstation, the technology obviously wouldn't have been put to use that successfully. I'm sure they love every minute of it.
I think what you are missing is that Sony has sold far more devices using Immersion's technology than Microsoft.
It doesn't matter if Sony's success was due to Immersion's tech. They violated the patent lost in court and they pay damages on a per device basis.
Microsoft settled but it is guaranteed that the per device license fee came into play in the negotiation.
- 963
- Toronto, Canada
- times_fade
No, I know Sony skooled Microsoft in the units sold department, but what about the future? If the "units sold" negotiation came up in Microsofts litigation process 4 years earlier (2003 vs 2007) that means they've been able to sell their devices without worry since then.
I understand Sony stole the idea, but they put it to good use when Microsoft came to the console party much later and also felt it was OK to violate Immersions technology. Both should have been treated equal, that's why I said it's not really fair to Sony, because it's not like the "rumble" tech was Sony's sole reason for success. It's Immersions lucky day that it worked out for them in courts on a "per device sold basis".
That's not luck, you seem to be out of your element on this patent litigation discussion. "Per device sold" is the default remedy for patent infringement. Sony knew that going in. They could have instead reached a different agreement in a settlement like Microsoft did so no one was treated unfairly.
- 963
- Toronto, Canada
- times_fade
bermudakid
(Banned)
- 2,561
- Connecticut
- BermudaKID
- BermudaKID
How long until we start getting CSW Reivews???
- 3,239
- New York
- thepatriots
Unofficially, mid to late May.
- 248
- Pittsburgh/PA/USA
- F1_DRAGON_USA
Pingwhen
If they really cared about the CSR Elite owners or prospective owners IMO They should have got at least one add-on rim out by now.
- 2,069
- Japan / Seattle
They said from the start that additional rims for the CSR-Elite would come after the CSW was released.
- 1,326
- SC
I bought my Elite before I even heard they would offer interchangable rims
Could be a lot of things going on.
1) They didn't want CSW sales to cannibalize initial CSR-E sales so they don't release them together.
2) They could have rushed the CSR-E out so it was out somewhat close to Forza 4 launch. Maybe they even had a deal with MS not to release any new wheels other than the Forza branded ones for a certain amount of time.
3) Tying into #1 they could be using the CSR-E as a beta to shake out any bugs in the new base and firmware before finally releasing he CSW. Look at all the fireware updates they've made so far.
I'm thinking its a combo of 1 & 3. The CSW with the cheapest rim is going to be $630. If you figure that there might be a lot of people who will buy CSP V2's with a CSW then you are at $880 (US) BEFORE tax and shipping which will put you at close to $1000 for a wheel and pedal set. Close to ECCI 6000 series pricing.
This is their home run shot. They need to make this CSW launch bullet proof and not screw the pooch on it or it could have bad consequences for them. People will tolerate bugs in a $200 wheel from a brand new company. Fanatec ain't brand new anymore and this wheel costs 3x more than their previous (no counting Elite) wheels.
- 2,069
- Japan / Seattle
The only advantage the CSR-Elite will have over the CSW is the Xbox compatibility. I can't think of any other reason to buy one over a CSW. Well maybe if you could be content with the stock wheel rim, otherwise, better off buying the CSW.
CSR-Elite is $540, if you want to buy a different wheel rim, you are looking at $150 or more depending which one you want.
For $450 + $150 (or more) for the CSW and one wheel rim, you've spent around $600 and have a better overall wheel with more features, that will be supported MUCH better in the future.
CSR-Elite is $540, if you want to buy a different wheel rim, you are looking at $150 or more depending which one you want.
For $450 + $150 (or more) for the CSW and one wheel rim, you've spent around $600 and have a better overall wheel with more features, that will be supported MUCH better in the future.
- 4,004
- Croatia
We don't know nothing about the future yet.
- 2,069
- Japan / Seattle
Thomas has stated multiple times on multiple different forums that the CSW will receive much more with things like extra wheel rims, features that work within games (like the LCD displaying game info), and other things.
He has always said the CSR-E will receive a couple wheel rims but that's about it other than firmware updates.
- 681
- Hampshire
This serves me right for not really paying attention...I didn't know the CSW will not support XBox 360 
- 2,069
- Japan / Seattle
The Xbox 360 compatibility is a good thing for Xbox 360 owners (obviously) but it's what will ultimately kill it as well. Thomas said they are much more limited to what they can do with the wheel and what they can offer because of the Xbox 360 support.
- 681
- Hampshire
Maybe on the xbox part. I just wonder how many more die hard Forza players are out there who would spend this kind of money who haven't already.
I think many others would keep buying the CSR-E also if it went down some in price and especially if they offered a bundle with the CSR Elite Pedals that saved you a lot of money like some of their other bundles. I hope that actually happens. A CSR Elite bundle that was price competitive with the T500RS. I'd be willing to keep saving money and put off my PC wheel purchase for that.
- 2,069
- Japan / Seattle
"kill it" might have been the wrong phrase.
But it will always be overshadowed by the CSW.
But it will always be overshadowed by the CSW.
- 681
- Hampshire
Similar threads
