FF and 4WD LSD settings

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slimcooper
I was wondering if there was a general guideline for setting the LSD on front wheel drive cars. Also on 4wd cars I understand it would depend on the front/rear torque settings, but would you generally set it up the same? Example > on acceleration, if outside tire spins first lower the setting, and on deceleration, if its loose going into corner increase setting, etc.
 
Yeah there is.

FF need something like
Initial: car dependant, usually high
Accel: usually high, somewhere near twice the initial but that's not a law.
Decel : usually very low, that's a law. Setting it is difficult due to the high initial.

You can also try inverted LSD for FF cars but there's no garanty (by considering more the unblocks by initial, "un-corrections" by accel/decel). Remember these lsd are very very very track dependent.

4WD:
That 60-70% depends of your torque split.
Front initial somewhere near (rear torque split / front torque split) * Rear initial (more or less, depends if you have an understeering/overtsteering setup)
: that's for having the same correcting power on all your wheels. You can have more in front for a car that understeer (most 4WD) or more in rear if you have a car that oversteer, but before finetuning that, you need to find the correct base balanced initial setting. Once you turn with ease, experiment with the balance.

Accel and decel I knew this in GT5 but I forgot, I'm still investigating.
 
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I can't talk about 4wd cars but in FWD I would generally tune along these lines:

Accel: As high as possible so that you get maximum torque transfer to help rotate the car (oversteer). Unless of course you already get power oversteer but I don't think I've ever experienced that in a FWD car.

Decel: Business as usual, set it as low as possible without instigating lift-off oversteer.

I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this next opinion but here it is anyway: I do not believe you can ever spin the outside wheel before the inside. It wouldn't happen in real life and the physics model would have to be really borked for that to occur ingame.

*Puts on flak jacket*
 
I guess I am the only one here in GTP which has totally different LSD tuning, you can try read Motor City Hami LSD guide in his tuning thread, but honestly I never use such method as I usually replicate real life LSD :) I have certain way to do it that so far works on all replica cars that I built in GT6 ( LSD works differently than in GT5 IMO ), check my replicas, build them and drive them, and feel the LSD works, some of the replicas with distinct LSD replica :

BEE Racing BNR32 GTR '89 400PS - low preload 2 way rear, 1.5 way front.

Hennessey Venom 600 GTS 600HP Comfort Soft -medium preload, 2 way

Knight Sports FD3S MAZDA RX7 Spirit R Type A '02 Special Edition 402PS-Comfort Soft-high preload 2 way

Top Fuel Zero 1000 Turbo Monster Honda Civic Type R '97 EK9 388PS-Sports Medium-high preload 1.5 way

The Top Fuel Civic and Knight Sports both managed similar performance ( handling, braking ) as well as lap time to the real car, which is the goal of making replicas :) The LSD also surprisingly works great, at least for me.

My next build issue will be a pair of Hosaka Tuning Factory Skyline GTR, both has NISMO GT LSD ( 1.5 way front, 2 way rear -low preload ) IRL.
 
Stock in game LSD represents them, or it's told to be this way (since GT4).

Yes, but the preload torque is different on the NISMO GT that I replicated, and locking rate also differs ( cam angle, friction plates etc ) The NISMO GT LSD is an upgrade from the stock GTR active LSD :) Try drive the replica and compare to the stock GTR, try the Bee R R32 GTR that already posted :) Some Japanese tuner also opted for 2 way front and 2 way rear NISMO GT LSD ( usually uses the carbon or Pro variety ), and it works great as well on GT6.
 
Yes, but the preload torque is different on the NISMO GT that I replicated, and locking rate also differs ( cam angle, friction plates etc ) The NISMO GT LSD is an upgrade from the stock GTR active LSD :) Try drive the replica and compare to the stock GTR, try the Bee R R32 GTR that already posted :) Some Japanese tuner also opted for 2 way front and 2 way rear NISMO GT LSD ( usually uses the carbon or Pro variety ), and it works great as well on GT6.
Just a Q. : do you have access to technical details about real world LSD, and how they translate in term of GT6 gameplay ?
You have to consider th number in the LSD + the gearbox (esp. final ratio) I think, and accel/decel were inverted so the gamer can better make an idea about the game.

Just a question, because I don't know real-life tuning. If you found a website with technical data I would be interested.
 
Just a Q. : do you have access to technical details about real world LSD, and how they translate in term of GT6 gameplay ?
You have to consider th number in the LSD + the gearbox (esp. final ratio) I think, and accel/decel were inverted so the gamer can better make an idea about the game.

Just a question, because I don't know real-life tuning. If you found a website with technical data I would be interested.

I used my past experiences with LSD in real car, and I also do some research on manufacturer websites - ATS, CUSCO, NISMO, TRD, etc ( used google ). I did some research + compare on stock LSD of cars that I have driven IRL and that I have replaced with aftermarket LSD ( R33 GTST 300WHP and R33 GTR ( not mine, a mate have one ) + NISMO GT LSD ), check the stock value in GT6 and made a calculation on how to roughly translate different preload and locking rate. From this one car, I got a rough idea of how to adapt some real world LSD, just rough adaptation, but it works well for me ( no ABS and mostly comfort + sports tire )

Hint : I adapted the value range of initial in GT6 LSD in relation to a car's torque :) - so initial always fluid, while cam angle + number of plates - accel/brake sensitivity almost stays constant, I added extra value when the LSD has higher locking rate due to more plates used or higher diameter size. ( just rough approximation )

So have you tried the Top Fuel Civic ? That car has LSD that most tuner here would never use :)
 
I used my past experiences with LSD in real car, and I also do some research on manufacturer websites - ATS, CUSCO, NISMO, TRD, etc ( used google ). I did some research + compare on stock LSD of cars that I have driven IRL and that I have replaced with aftermarket LSD ( R33 GTST 300WHP and R33 GTR ( not mine, a mate have one ) + NISMO GT LSD ), check the stock value in GT6 and made a calculation on how to roughly translate different preload and locking rate. From this one car, I got a rough idea of how to adapt some real world LSD, just rough adaptation, but it works well for me ( no ABS and mostly comfort + sports tire )

Hint : I adapted the value range of initial in GT6 LSD in relation to a car's torque :), cam angle + number of plates - accel/brake sensitivity, I added extra value when the LSD has higher locking rate due to more plates used or higher diameter size. ( just rough approximation )

So have you tried the Top Fuel Civic ? That car has LSD that most tuner here would never use :)
Say your LSD is 6/12/6 and it's locking at accel.
Locking, it will re-set your LSD to 6/6/6. If tires are still slipping, it will give you 6/0/6 until tires are even and unslip/unlock. If you used 24/12/6, if the accel LSD locks, you will get 24/-12/6 then 24/12/6 and slipp forever.

That's why initial should ever be the lowest setting of a LSD and eventually increments of accel/decel, but :
7/12/6 is a good idea : 7/12/6 to 7/5/6 checks if still sliping to 7/-2/6 (change direction) and check if still sliping and 7/5/6 forever. If the tire slipping stops at -2, you also corrected your oversteer coming from outside slipping first.

Accel/decel setting are not fully in relation with torque, it's more in relation with torque "when" the LSD locks.

Accel/decel setting represents % of slip allowed.

At 34 for exemple, you allow inside wheel to turn 50-34/2% slower than the outside = 50+34/2.
That makes 33% /67% or more or less the outside wheel turning twice the speed of the inside wheel.

So this is not related to torque : the moment at driving when you lock is torque dependant.

Just to say : beware of what you do, it seems that if you set the intial torque-related, that's sadly a track dependent setting...

PS - I didn't had the time to test, it's 10:12am there, I can't test until 8pm :)
edit - I understand I'm saying now it's not final ratio related : it's final ratio related on the track you use in fact, because your diff will/will not lock depending on the rev you entered a corner - due, as you say, to torque applied. That's when you have a red wheel in GT's HUD. Out of the torque band, you wouldn't have those slips mostly.
 
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Say your LSD is 6/12/6 and it's locking at accel.
Locking, it will re-set your LSD to 6/6/6. If tires are still slipping, it will give you 6/0/6 until tires are even and unslip/unlock.

That's why initial should ever be the lowest setting of a LSD.

Accel/decel setting are not fully in relation with torque, it's more in relation with torque "when" the LSD locks.

Accel/decel setting represents % of slip allowed.

At 34 for exemple, you allow inside wheel to turn 50-34/2% slower than the outside = 50+34/2.
That makes 33% /67% or more or less the outside wheel turning twice the speed of the inside wheel.

So this is not related to torque : the moment at driving when you lock is torque dependant.

Just to say : beware of what you do, it seems that if you set the intial torque-related, that's sadly a track dependent setting...

PS - I didn't had the time to test, it's 10:12am there, I can't test until 8pm :)
edit - (I understand I'm saying now it's not final ratio related : it's final ratio related on the track you use in fact, because your tire will/will not lock depending on the rev you entered a corner - due, as you say, to torque applied)


What I meant was initial is similar to torque preload, I set the accel/brake separately ( not torque dependent but based on LSD locking rate/strength). If you look through my replica tunes on my garage, you will notice that most of the accel/brake are similar while initial always changed :) Running low initial will always result in early locking, the higher the initial, the later it will lock, just like in real LSD torque preload, the lower, the more sensitive it is to lock, higher preload will lock a bit later, but usually will wear out the LSD quicker and maintaining stable high preload would be difficult due to wear and tear. RL LSD usually run low preload of 3kg to 9kg, some of the competition spec LSD have 20kg or more and high cam angle up to 60/70 degrees in acceleration and as low as 1 degree when coasting/braking and bigger plate diameter + more number of plates to strengthen locking ability.

It's better to try my replicas - the Knight Sports RX7 and Top Fuel Civie are good example, I will also post my Hosaka Tuning Factory R33 and R34 GTR replica, both capable of sub 1 minute lap time at Tsukuba, just like the real one does.
 
Ah ok, you're using what I call the "dark LSD" method :)
I will check this tonigth, I was an adept of this too in GT4 but I changed my mind :)

I'm preparing a "dark suspension" Renault Gordini (Cross dampers, Rally, RR), the car is a pig but it's fun to drive :)
 
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The way I tune LSD is set all sliders to 5. Say it's a RWD car I would test with 5/5/5, if wheels slip on cornet exit etc raise accel, if I get too much lift off oversteer (quite rare) raise the decel. If something isn't working as intended ie raising decel to reduce lift off oversteer doesn't seem to work than raise initial torque to balance.
This will add stability but might create too much understeer so you'll have to play with other settings.

On 4WD it's easier to visualize what LSD does on a RWD car and just apply it to 4 wheels, it takes a lot lot longer to set up as you have so many variables to fine tune, as not only do you play with oversteer / understeer, but the difference in values sets how much the car swivels, and also torque ratio- I don't enjoy 4WD LSD myself lol

FWD it's quite easy, almost always want decel at lowest setting to get the most oversteer lifting off, raise accel just enough so the wheels don't slip for maximum oversteer
 
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