FFB & Ferrari Challenge

[Biggles]

I know this has been discussed in the "main" thread, but I feel it deserves its own thread...

I've now spent about 3 or 4 hours with FC & a G25 wheel & have these first impressions:

Given that FC is supposed to be sim-based, it feels startlingly different from GT5P, F1:CE, Enthusia & other PS "sim" racing games. Part of this has to do with the rather odd "arcade-like" graphics, but the other part has to do with the handling & the way FFB is implemented.

With its rather heavy FFB, FC gives much more sense of the weight of the car shifting than GT5P - but with its awkward "dead zone" (as described quite accurately IMO, by Stotty), its very hard to correctly input the steering response. In contrast, GT5P has a very light, but very precise FFB, which gives you a great feel for the reactions of the car, but does not transmit a good sense of the actual weight of the car. Enthusia also had a very prounounced sense of weight transfer, but communicated it in an oddly "spongy", unrealistic way through the wheel.

Finally, none of the 3 games mentioned above give any sense for the surface of the road - bumps & irregularities - which F1:CE does quite realistically through the FFB. On the other hand, F1:CE doesn't give very much sense of the weight transfer of the car, which takes away from IT'S sense of realism.

Is it too much to hope for, that a game will come along that combines all the good physics & FFB features from these different games in a single title?!

 

[myke6699]

Prior to the August 1st update, the Daytona Oval and especially the road course on GT5P had decent feedback simulating bumps on the road surface. It's somewhat tone down with the update. I'm using a G25 which according to some has less road surface FFB compared to the fully supported DFGT. But when I run GT4 on my PS3 (with the G25), there's great surface FFB. Go figure.

 

[Biggles]

GT4 had decent bumps on Nurburgring & Sarthe.

Switched FFB on FC to High setting & steering input is a bit more precise.

Switched back to GT5P after a few hours on FC & the FFB feels very, very light. It really would be improved if there was a significantly stronger setting IMO...

 

[aus1-v8]

GT4 had decent bumps on Nurburgring & Sarthe.

Switched FFB on FC to High setting & steering input is a bit more precise.

Switched back to GT5P after a few hours on FC & the FFB feels very, very light. It really would be improved if there was a significantly stronger setting IMO...

i have the DFPGT wheel it seems as it is fully supported you get a much better FFB in both gt5 and FC. i feel every bump in the road, has very little if any deadzone effect. it amazes me the G25 doesn't respond the same.

 

[dzidza]

would it be great if we could have ffb different for stock cars and for sport cars(racing) like in real life.

 

[MS7XWDC]

not sure what a DFPGT is [DF GT with dial, or DFP original GT4]
Driving Force Pro here is my wheel

no issues for me [besides perhaps a tiny tiny deadzone]

 

[Biggles]

Interesting. Is it possible that the G25 & DFP/DFGT have different FFB responses? I guess we'd have to get an opinion from someone who has tried the different wheels.

I would have to say, there really don't seem to be any "bumps in the road" in GT5P or FC except for the rumble strips. I've only tried a few of the tracks in FC so far, but I particularly notice the bump at the end of the back straight before Curva del Vialone: there's absolutely no FFB response from the G25 when I go over it...

 

[aus1-v8]

not sure what a DFPGT is [DF GT with dial, or DFP original GT4]
Driving Force Pro here is my wheel

no issues for me [besides perhaps a tiny tiny deadzone]

yes

sorry DFGT has the dial..my bad! should have explained

 

[RF951]

Interesting. Is it possible that the G25 & DFP/DFGT have different FFB responses? I guess we'd have to get an opinion from someone who has tried the different wheels.

I would have to say, there really don't seem to be any "bumps in the road" in GT5P or FC except for the rumble strips. I've only tried a few of the tracks in FC so far, but I particularly notice the bump at the end of the back straight before Curva del Vialone: there's absolutely no FFB response from the G25 when I go over it...

I own both wheels. I started playing the game with my G25 and suffered many of the problems described by others. The worst part is having to saw back and forth in the corners as the FFB goes on and off. It was bad enough that I broke out the DFP and tried that. It was better, but still not right in my opinion. I hate the pedals on the DFP.

I'm not playing the game right now because of the wheel problem and the AI. I'll wait til the patch comes out and see if it gets better then we'll see.

 

[Zedux]

I'm not playing the game right now because of the wheel problem and the AI. I'll wait til the patch comes out and see if it gets better then we'll see.

I see many people complaining about the AI and I complain too but for a different reason... In dynamic the AI adapts to you so I'm doing qualifying laps in the race and can't pull away from the other cars even a small mistake and it's almost impossible to than catch up with them!!

So people who complain mostly are not driving in dynamic mode cause in these you can complain only if you are a slow driver and the AI will adapt to your lack of speed too!!!

 

[MS7XWDC]

The worst part is having to saw back and forth in the corners as the FFB goes on and off. It was bad enough that I broke out the DFP and tried that.

i definitely do not experience that with my DF Pro.

 

[Biggles]

Having spent a few more hours in FC, I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of the handling. It really is a very different beast from GT5P, & I see why it's possible to think that the physics are more realistic than in GT5P: the sense of the cars' weight shifting around is much more pronounced than in GT5P. In GT5P you still have to balance the car, but the very light FFB does not give you as much feel for the weight actually shifting.

On the other hand, in FC there's still too much of a dead zone in the wheel, where you can rotate the wheel a few degrees before it produces any response from the car - this makes the steering inputs less precise than in GT5P. I'm also finding the steering in FC a bit too forgiving, where it can be too easy to recover from mistakes.

 

[RF951]

To be clear the problem I am having with the FFB is that the dead zone can only be made smaller by increasing the FFB. While cornering the dead spot is preventing me from being smooth so my line is always adjusting, causing the sawing at the wheel. Because the FFB is on high it is going on and off as it simulates the loss of traction from me jerking at the wheel. I like to drive with lower FFB in games as I can be smoother in the corners, that isn't the case here as the dead zone is far too large with reduced FFB.

I play with dynamic AI and my problem is that they aren't racing me they're blocking me or trying to wreck me.

 

[Biggles]

RF951: I pretty much agree with your impressions. I too now use FFB on the high setting, which definitely reduces the dead zone effect. I don't mind the heaviness of the steering (although it's a big adjustment from the feel of GT5P) & I like the way the FFB "skips" a bit on the corners as though the wheels were on the verge of losing grip. However, I don't like the lack of precision when cornering & I don't feel that that aspect is "realistic".

I don't have any meaningful comments of the AI yet, as I've been playing on "Beginner" up to this point, but ready to move up to something more challenging...

 

[Delphic Reason]

You want to feel well implemented FFB?

Plug your wheel into a PC.

Download Live For Speed, Richard Burns Rally, and GTR Evolution.

 

[Rainmaster]

You want to feel well implemented FFB?

Plug your wheel into a PC.

Download Live For Speed, Richard Burns Rally, and GTR Evolution.

try
Flatout Carnage
it almost vibrate whole room

 

[Biggles]

You want to feel well implemented FFB?

Plug your wheel into a PC.

Download Live For Speed, Richard Burns Rally, and GTR Evolution.

I'm a Mac user, so not able to do that until I get my new "PC compatible" Mac.

The question is: if it's possible to do a good job with FFB, why don't all games have good FFB? At this point, I feel that this is the major shortcoming of FC - looks like the reviewer at Autosim feels the same way. What chance is there that it will be adjusted in an update?

 

[Delphic Reason]

I think it has a lot to do with the individual programmers, and teams. Everybody has a different idea what is good or bad about current FFB implementation. Therefore, different people are going to go about implementing FFB in different ways. Not to mention, every racing game is trying to one-up the competition with their idea of the best FFB, so they tend to stay away from doing things similarly to the competition, even if it has been done well before. Because of this competition, they also tend to safeguard their information regarding how they implemented their FFB. The nature of consumerism. It's not always so grand.

I personally like the way "Live For Speed" feels. You can feel the weight of the car through the wheel better than a lot of other games.

 

[Biggles]

I think it has a lot to do with the individual programmers, and teams. Everybody has a different idea what is good or bad about current FFB implementation. Therefore, different people are going to go about implementing FFB in different ways. Not to mention, every racing game is trying to one-up the competition with their idea of the best FFB, so they tend to stay away from doing things similarly to the competition, even if it has been done well before. Because of this competition, they also tend to safeguard their information regarding how they implemented their FFB. The nature of consumerism. It's not always so grand.

Hmmm... you may be right, but you would think there would be something to be gained by drawing on the experience of previous FFB implementation & improving on it, rather than re-inevting the wheel (pardon the pun!) each time.

It's hard to know if what shows up in a game is due to a lack of time, money, resources, & ability, or if it's due to a conscious decision on the part of the game designers. In any case, FC is an odd game IMO - arcade design, but with tricky & (more or less) realistic physics - it doesn't seem like a recipe for popular success to me ... but personally, I am enjoying it quite a bit!

 

[Bluepark]

I keep reading this forum in the hope that the deadzone problem is fixed with the G25 - until it is, I won't be buying this game.

Which is a shame, because I think the G25 owners are the players that are most likely to keep buying new content for a game they like.

Is anyone out there listening? Where's that official guy who announces the patches?

 

[amar212]

I keep reading this forum in the hope that the deadzone problem is fixed with the G25 - until it is, I won't be buying this game.

From my point of view - and many more people as I know, who are not "loud" as those who are complaining - there is nothing wrong with the "dead zone". It existis on G25, but it's small and pretty much non-noticable after you get the grip with the game.

It certanly shouldn't be the factor of decision for not buying the game.

 

[Sil3nc3r-]

From my point of view - and many more people as I know, who are not "loud" as those who are complaining - there is nothing wrong with the "dead zone". It existis on G25, but it's small and pretty much non-noticable after you get the grip with the game.

It certanly shouldn't be the factor of decision for not buying the game.

I have the feeling that the problem with the dead Zone indeed exists. When i chose high FFB the dead Zone is pretty small, the car reacts asap. When i chose low, the dead Zone is way higher.


Sil

 

[Delphic Reason]

Is this deadzone only present with the G25? Anyone have any experience with DFP or DFGT wheels, playing this game?

 

[MS7XWDC]

DFP = no "big" deadzone or FFB "cutting off and on" in turns.

a tiny tiny deadzone on DFPro [FFB HIGH], noty what i'd classify as a "problem" tho

 

[amar212]

I have the feeling that the problem with the dead Zone indeed exists. When i chose high FFB the dead Zone is pretty small, the car reacts asap. When i chose low, the dead Zone is way higher.
Sil

Since I drive on "high" setting - dead-zone is almost non-existant for me. I tried both "low" and "mid" and they just do not respond fast enough. I know it is up to pesonal preferences, but "high" remains my only choice for all the cars. So, no dead-zone there.

 

[Sil3nc3r-]

Since I drive on "high" setting - dead-zone is almost non-existant for me. I tried both "low" and "mid" and they just do not respond fast enough. I know it is up to pesonal preferences, but "high" remains my only choice for all the cars. So, no dead-zone there.

To bad that you have to be a bodybuilder using "high", the FFB is ridicolous strong there...^^

With "High" i just can drive 1 hour, then my arm hurts..


Sil

 

[Biggles]

I don't find the FFB uncomfortable in the "High" setting - I actually quite like the feel, it gives you a good feel for the weight transfer of the car & also creates a sense of the G forces involved, something that is totally missing from GT5P. However, I do find the "dead zone" makes precise steering adjustments much more difficult, requiring careful attention to keep the car properly balanced.

The positive aspect of this, is that it gives you a sense of the difficulty of keeping a high-powered car in control under aggressive cornering - there's a sense of danger, because if you're not really concentrating, it's easy to lose control of the car.

Overall, I'm really enjoying the driving in FC - the physics are different from GT5P, but very good. It's all the other bizarre aspects of the game that are a little hard to swallow:

1) The "arcade" graphics: it's a bit hard to appreciate the realism of the driving when the courses are so clearly unrealistic. The colours are very artificial, particularly the strangely brown road colour. The nicest graphics IMO are the "rain graphics" which, while not overly realistic, are very attractive.

2) The "sound effects": what the hell are all the weird crunching, smashing, squeaking & banging noises?! It seems impossible to tune them down as they seem to be part of the "engine noise" settings. Overall the sound comes across as very contrived & unrealistic.

3) Lack of proper replay functionality (see other thread).

4) AI problems (see other thread).

5) Inadequate racing view: the cockpit view is too restricted, the bumper view too low. One thing that is quite effective, is the "look-back" view which looks back at your whole car & the track (like a reversed "chase view"). While this is unrealistic feeling, it is a great way of compensating for lack of peripheral vision, allowing you to see your car in relation to the cars around it when you are in a tight racing situation. 👍

 

[gatorchad]

The change in the dead zone with the different FFB settings proves to me that the FFB implementation is flawed. I’ve spent the last couple of weeks playing FC exclusively in an attempt to “get used” to driving with the dead zone on my Driving Force Pro, but the lack of precision control has sucked the fun out of it for me. I don’t feel like I’m driving. I feel like I’m struggling to control a video game, and that’s not the kind of experience I expected when I shelled out my cash.

 

[Sil3nc3r-]

With setting "low" and "medium" it feels a bit like Race Driver Grid...and i HATED that game for the very bad steering. Even Test Drive Unlimited, which is clearly an arcade game, felt better (i for myself think TDU has really good physics, and the FFB is great).

Sil

 

[Delphic Reason]

With setting "low" and "medium" it feels a bit like Race Driver Grid...and i HATED that game for the very bad steering. Even Test Drive Unlimited, which is clearly an arcade game, felt better (i for myself think TDU has really good physics, and the FFB is great).

Sil

Good physics!?!?!?!

TDU?

Sorry, I've just never heard anyone say such things before. I own the game, and apart from some nice scenery, and nice looking cars, there isn't much else. I found the physics in TDU some of the worst, especially with a wheel.

I must say... All this talk of a horrible deadzone is making me really wary of FC. I am dying to purchase a new "console" driving game, and thought FC would fit the bill nicely.