Finally making the switch!

[GT]

I'm finally going to take the leap and buying myself a steering wheel. I have been a pad user since day one (GT1) and ever since prologue (GT5) appeared I found that the square and X button just don't cut it anymore, I couldn't apply the right amount of throttle and braking force.

So I did what anyone else would do and switched those buttons to the shoulder buttons (L2 and R2). This was a stroke of genius because now I could actually properly control the amount of throttle and braking. Yet...those buttons were not as precise as I had hoped because of the much debated pressure issue: It goes to full throttle/braking even though you don’t have the button pressed completely.

Yet even though this was the case I would adjust fairly quickly and soon it was second nature to me. I have to admit that it was a great way of precisely controlling those two crucial elements. But then another problem emerged from out of nowhere...

It is curious that the more my skill developed the more problems I ran into. There is indeed a direct correlation between my skill and the annoyances that started to happen. What was the problem you ask? well let me tell you...pointing the car into the right direction and holding it there...sounds simple enough...

I was reading up on skip barber's racing manual (I am already studying to get my international racing license in a few years) and I always try to apply what I read to real-life and GT5P. Basic notions such as cornering and cutting the apex and slowly straightening the car out as you exit a corner became difficult to perform consistently and perfectly on the dot.

Let me say, as a pad user, that it is possible to be that precise. I know I was from time to time; yet it is quite another thing to be consistent all the time and be able to nail those basics!

Steering with the analogue stick just wasn't cutting it. I realized this driving around S2 with the 599 (professional, no ABS, no TC...nothing to help me, that's how I always drive) and not being able to catch number 1 whilst I could do this with the GT-R or the R8.

I know what you're thinking, this all comes down to throttle control. In a sense it does but I found that some corners where very difficult to control with the analogue stick; corner 1 obviously, the very slow corner after the straight. As the rear would lose grip from time to time it became increasingly difficult to control that and turn the car, making a successful corner. Yet even when I had proper throtle control I wa still not cornering the way I knew I wanted to, I just couldn't do it with the stick...

And having raced with the DFGT as the Autorai 2009 (a car show) I knew how precise the wheel was. Plus, the amount of feedback could help me tremendously.

So, I finally ordered a DFGT and I am proud to do so, I have nothing against the pad, yet I believe that if one reaches the point where they decide that they would like to have more control on all aspects of the car than a wheel would be the correct and appropriate answer. It should be here Monday!
Are my presumption right? How was the switch for you and what made you switch?

 

[oqvist]

If you get more control with the wheel something is wrong with the gamepad .

Well you will have to give it some time to readjust and building some muscle memory for your brake primarily. So don´t be to quick to judge unless you are instantly faster of course.

 

[Jay]

How was the switch for you and what made you switch?

(GT4P with the new DFP) My enjoyment shot up and had a big grin on my face every lap I did of Citta di Aria in GT4P. Took me about a full day before I could match my DS2 lap times, some people take longer, but most of us get there.

Never looked back.

 

[GT]

by saying that I will probably get more control with the wheel does not mean that there is, as you suggest, something wrong. It simply means that for instance the steering input is for more subtle, which means I can steer for more precisely and hold one position. Same goes for the throttle and braking.

I would think you would all back me up...correct me if i'm wrong though

 

[oqvist]

It means something is wrong if you get more precision with one controller than the other. Otherwise if there is nothing wrong there is no point in getting a wheel fixing what ain´t wrong right ...

Doesn´t say your gamepad is broken but if you get more precision with the wheel your current controller is wrong. Well it´s any way you don´t steer a real car with thumb and pointy fingers

 

[DJW_GT]

I've just gone down exactly the same route for exactly the same reasons. Just yesterday I ordered a G25 from ebuyer.com and is expected to arrive on Thursday

 

[GT]

I have to disagree with you there, because I believe - from my short experience - that the wheel and pedal setup increase the amount of input versus output that is contextualised in the game significantly. I really do not believe that the analogue stick would allow for the same precision steering as a wheel; what is more, looking at it factually I in fact believe it is not possible. It is what Kaz has said multiple times and what other wheel users have confirmed. This same theory goes for the throttle and braking; I simply believe that a wheel setup gives the user more gradual control and thus it would enable them to have far more subtle input.

Yes, I do know there is a learning curve, trust me, I have no illusion about that whatsoever. I will start with 'slow' cars and slowly work my way up.

DJW_GT, Well, let us join together and see how we fare adjusting to the wheel. I'm also going to roder a wheel stand pro tonight, just to complete the package. That damn 599

 

[bevo]

I think you will be very, very pleased with your move. I get much more control with my wheel then a controller. I'm also, much, much better at racing games now. I use to race some of my friends all of the time on gt4 with controllers, and the races were very competitive, but since getting a g25, no one will race me anymore. I completely destroy them with the wheel vs pad, it's not even close.

 

[GT]

exactly, that is precisely what i mean. there is nothing wrong or broken about a pad, it's just that a wheel steup allows for so much more control.

Yeah, I'm also very pleased with my decision to final get one and I'm sure it will really help my put real-life theory into practise! I will keep an update on how things go for me!

 

[oqvist]

Seem to be some misunderstanding here I never argued about the wheel offering more precision quite the opposite... You just mentioned in the post that you thought that the wheel would be better but you also noticed no fault on the gamepad... Thus I questioned if there is no fault on the gamepad the wheel shouldn´t have more precision right... Sorry for confusing you

 

[GT]

ooh, ok, I got it, yeah there was a slight confusion there. Well, I guess the fault with the gamepad is that I simply cannot control as precise as I would imagine I could with a wheel

 

[888 Tuning]

Best thing I ever did was getting the DFGT. I was reasonably happy with my pace using the controller, but its sooo much harder to be smooth compared to the wheel. (Been using controller since GT1)

Bottom line for me:
Controller : feels like a game
Wheel: feels like a sim

 

[Jay]

Oh, so you are looking from confirmation you will get more precise control with a wheel over the gamepad?
Well you will.... but thats not the prime reason I went to a wheel, I went to a wheel because I wanted it to be more like I am driving cars (like I do in real life) rather than controlling something with a controller like you would with a RC car.
The interactivity went up, the enjoyment went up, satisfaction went up and the precision went up.

 

[GT]

well, the DFGT has arrived, though I am not at home right now to try it out, I will be in a day or two. Plus I got confirmation from the Wheelstand Pro guys that my logitech WS will be send on Monday; from Poland to Holland should be about two days I'm guessing. So once that arrives I'm gonna get some mileage!

But I will attach the wheel to my dinning table for the time being, just to try it out!

I can't believe I'm finally going to be able to play GT with a wheel and pedal setup, it is going to be awesome.

The main reason for me to make the switch is indeed to have more control over the steering and throttle and braking; plus being much smoother and consistent in the long run!

even if we forget all that; just think of the fun and the feedback! I think I'm going to enjoy this a lot

I'll keep the updates comming concerning te DFGT and WSP

 

[SaNTi iTNaS]

When I first got it, I really hated the change, it was difficult. Ended up returning it after a weekend. few weeks passed, and i noticed much more fun I was having with the wheel before, frustrating or not, it was a great experience. Bought it again, and forced myself to learn. Never going back.

 

[GT]

I do realize this; and I am prepared to have a tough time adjusting. Though, as I mentioned I played GT5P at a carshow with a wheel for the very first time and didn't have too much trouble going round the circuit, albeit HSR which is not that technical as say suzuka. then again, I was driving the GT-R which is not a razorsharp ' I'm going to kill you if you make one mistake' kinda car

Yet still, I am prepared to slowly build my experience. I will start out with a relatively 'slow' car such as the gti (slow is relative ) and do a 40 lap race at the HSR in arcade mode. After that I will perhaps give the gti more power and give it another go.

After those initial races, I will probably pick something a little more feisty - no MR car yet though - such as an rx-7.

So you can see I have no illusions that there is going to be a transition; that much is obvious: I have been a pad player since gt1 (though I bought a wheel for the first one but it was el cheapo and used it a few times...coudn't straighten the car...I was young...and restless? )

My DFGT arrived yesterday and my Wheelstand Pro will be send on Monday can't wait! My reward for doing two academic studies at the same time

 

[GT]

Awesome, that's all i can say. My wheelstand pro hasn't arrived yet, but I attached the DFGT to our dinning table and had a go and was immensly impressed.

This is really it, the way to play GT5! You always here people say that the wheel is incredible and the experience is simply stunning. I always thought...mheew, it probably is good and fun, but still...

But, now that I've had a few hours worth of play time, I am more than impressed. The cars suddenly have a soul and you can really appreciate the subtle differences! I'm gonna go play some more

 

[nyeboy]

I'll be buying a G25 soon, this thread has me even more excited about getting one.

 

[GT]

So, after 5 hours of play this is the deal:

First of all, I immediatly set the wheel to simulation and set the force feedback at 7. Obviously no assists, no abs no TC, no ASM, no nothing.

after this I started out with the golf gti for a 30 lap race at HSR which was incredibly fun. It truly was an eye-opening experience I will never forget! The marvel of steering the car and hitting those apexes was awesome.

After that, I started a 30 lap race at Eiger with the Mazda 6. Let me tell ya, shifting the gears with the stick never, NEVER gets boring. That track really comes alive in a way that pad users will never experience, its as simple as that. The corners are so much fun, and the joy of that track as been multiplied by a million! those tight corners are now sooo much fun.

After that I did a timetrail with the 430 at fuji which was challenging.

all in all, the wheel and the pedals are incredible; the GT game transforms into a whole new beast. I have incredible throttle and braking control; this is what I was searching for for so long; the feeling of actually driving a car!

However, catching a slide or drifting, even at a easy angle, is not happening yet. I'm guessing it's just practise and experience. How do you wheel users experience this when you just switched?

 

[888 Tuning]

I still struggle with catching a bad slide so I try not to get into a slide to begin with.
With the pad you could be more lazy in this regard as it was so easy to recover.
You get to learn inputs that will induce a slide so you can pre-empt it rather than react.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

As I just said in another thread my G25 for £99 is on its way.

In the past I have never bothered with a wheel because whilst playing FM2 the controller is perfectly ok. However when I purchased GT5P last year I quickly realised that this game is intended to be played with a wheel. Now whether this is down to the physics of the game or the PS3 pad (poor compared to 360) or probably a combination of both.

Whilst using a pad on GT5P I was actually competitive on the time trials (standard) but I quickly realised I was at an disadvantage to wheel users. For starters I couldn't engine brake like some were doing i.e 6th gear to 2nd in an instant and neither did I have the same degree of steering lock i.e having to lift off accelerator alot longer than wheel users. Furthermore some cars were an absolute nightmare trying to drive on proffessional settings!

What im planning to do once my wheel arrives is try and at least match my current laptimes. Im expecting this to take at least a week but im hoping once I learn the techniques I can actually better my laptimes.

However the most important reason for switching isn't to be faster but to improve my overall enjoyment. I have spent alot of money preparing for GT5 because this is the only reason I bought a PS3. I have also bought a 40" Sony V4000 and I also own a Sony surround system. So it occured to me it would be a sin playing GT5 with a pad when I have all the other equipment to maximise the game.

I am hoping to purchase a racing cockpit later in the year when I saved some money. I just cannot wait to play GT5 whilst sitting in my cockpit with a G25 in full 1080P HD listening to the sound of the cars coming out of my 5.1 system. I have been playing video games since the 1980s but this will be the ultimate gaming experience and I simply cannot wait.

 

[GT]

that is great news. is your G25 delivered? have you also ordered a WSP?

well, after about 3 days of experiencing GT with the DFGT and the WSP I must say that I am completely convinced. As I said, you always hear wheel users say that they will never go back to a pad again and I always thought that was kinda meh...I mean, come on, the pad is just fine anyway. I was wrong, completely. Not because the pad is wrong or anything like that, but because after the amount of control and precision - not to mention the emersion and fun-factor - it is difficult to settle for a pad, which is simply not able to provide the user with what the wheel can.

I must say I have adopted very quickly to say the least. I put the wheel in simulation mode and the force feedback at 7 and I have been racing and doing time trial all over the place. I have already beaten my pad times, but that was not my goal to begin with. I am now able to really drive smoothly and precisely.

therefore, I am now able to finally drive the London track and I am enjoying it so darn much! I used to hate that track with a vengance , but now, it is my favorite and the replay of that track is also amazing!

The only thing I haven't got down is drifting with control, I just can't keep the car at the desired angle and drift. To be honest, I am a racing-line kinda guy, never drifted and my car setups are also meant for the line, always. maybe that has something to do with it, I don't know.

Either way it is an awesome experience, I simply cannot get enough of the feeling. All the cars have come alive and have a spirit; it's a joy driving the SL and the impreza, the 599 on london is a dream and the GT-R really comes to live with my setup.

I will conclude with this: I will never go back to the pad again, this is too much fun!

Next report will be more indepth!

 

[Tnerb]

Even if you are getting the same times with a wheel (you should get faster over time) it is so much more imersive and enjoyable than the pad.

 

[GT]

It's been almost two weeks now since I first got my DFGT and WSP. Time for another update.

First of all I found out that I had the wheel setup too high in front of me which made it difficult to turn the maximum rotation without letting go of the wheel or shifting my hands to a different position. After I fixed that I found another problem. My DFGT was making a sound when turning with heavy FFB...thankfully I found out that it was not the wheel - which is still smooth as butter - but the WSP; I hadn't tightened the nut enough. I was very happy with that . Now on to the racing.

As I had mentioned I have had some problems getting out of an oversteer situation, let alone drifting. However, things have gotten a lot better. First of all, I am now able to catch an oversteer moment 8 out of 10 times which is very satisfying to say the least. I found out that it was mostly my throttle control that needed to cope with what was happening to the car as well as my steering input wasn't fast enough. Now I have adjusted my throttle control; in other words I do not let the throttle go or just keep it planted . Yet this change happened fairly quickly and not at all consciously. This helped a lot for I was able to finally correct an oversteer moment. As I have mentioned I am not a drifter, I prefer tehe racing line, yet I have tried to drift. This was much easier with the pad than with a wheel I must say. Things have improved but then again I haven't practised a lot.

Racing wise I have been doing a lot of laps of the London track. I often pick a car and do 40 laps. it is an awesome track with the DFGT and I love it. Yet I had a benchmark to get to...S2 Event...with a ferrari...a 599...

This was tough...the 599 is a great car, yet when one is racing it can be a handful. Going into turn 1 is always difficult since you have to pick out your braking point carefully; you don't want to enter the corner to slow otherwise you lose a lot of time on the following straight and you don't want to lock your tyres going in too hot. Yet with the DFGT I was able to control these aspects and overtook some cars doing it. The Coca-Cola corner is another one of those precise corners where you have to balance the car in order to get the most speed going into the corner. I always aimed at around 125 KM/H to 130 KM/H MAX, which proved to be tricky at times. Going into turn 4 was always fun; I usually entered with a very high speed in 4th gear going at around 170 KM/H quickly easing of the throttle and shifiting back to 3 gear at the appropriate RPM and going into turn 5 at about 145 KM/H. The haipin at turn 6 is great with the DFGT and I would always ease the throttle back on coming out of that turn going into 3rd gear going into turns 8 and 9 which were difficult. When flooring the accelerator the 599 could lose its back end in an oversteer situation that is very difficult to recover from because of the extremely high speed. lifting of the throttle with the smallest amount of pressure would be save but I have been know to keep it floored; however when slipstreaming in those turns and coming back into the air flow can be a disaster because the 599 becomes highly unstable and wants to break traction at the rear. The Dunlop corner can now finally be takens as it was meant to; smooth steering and balancing the car with the throttle going at around 60 KM/H. However, getting out of turn 11 and 12 going into turn 13 can be difficult when shifting down from 140 KM/H, braking, turning and applying the throttle at around 95 KM/H as you exit the corner. again, when you brake strongly whilst turning the rear of the 599 starts to lose traction. This becomes ten times more apparent in the Netz corner where balancing the 599 and throttle control is key! Easing on the brakes and then immediatly giving it some throttle. The same challenge is present at the Panasonic corner where the 599 really likes to step out if you are not paying attention. Then it is on to the straight making sure not to mis-shift!

I was able to be consistent and doing three laps was just enough to overtake the competition. However, since we know that the AI changes from race to race I tried to win the S2 Event a number of times just to make sure I was on the mark. This meant tinkering with the setup a lot. I Put the brake strenght at 3 front and 3 rear which enabled me to be very precise with the brakes and avoid locking up anywhere! also makeing sure the car was stiff enough helps tremedously on this track especially for the 599.

I have already destroyed my DS3 times, but really that does not matter; the amount of fun and control I have is worth it all! What an awesome feeling. I have set the FFB at 8 and I love the DFGT!

 

[ajprice]

You can set pad controls up as the 2 triggers for accelerator and brake, instead of X and square. I was used to triggers because I've had a 360 a lot longer than my PS3, and most 360 driving games are trigger control instead of face buttons for accelerator and brake.

 

[GT]

yeah, I know, that was the way I used my DS3; still that kind of setup has nothing on a wheel and pedals...I'm not so sure what you are aiming for?

 

[Cougar23]

I recently got a DFGT for my birthday (3 Days Ago), and I'm only 2-3 seconds a lap slower with it. I'm getting faster with it though. It definetly adds a whole new level of realism to GT4. I used to have a MadCatz MC2 and my DFGT is sooooo much better. I would recommend them to anybody who wants a good wheel but doesn't want to fork out for a G25.