FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[HKS racer]

My most wanted features from Forza Series are the livery editor and the great car list.
One thing from GT that could fit well in FM are all those good looking racing gears, that plain white helmet I saw in some recent FM4 pics looks a bit old now.

 

[Luminis]

But it needs work as it feels like it is, tacked on.

According to Kaz, it is. It was implemented to apease the fans, so it's no wonder it feels tacked on.

 

[FyreandIce]

Agreed, the driver model in FM3 was horrendous (I would always try to take pic's where you couldn't see the driver) but it looks somewhat improved in FM4.

 

[t.o.]

My most wanted features from Forza Series are the livery editor and the great car list.
One thing from GT that could fit well in FM are all those good looking racing gears, that plain white helmet I saw in some recent FM4 pics looks a bit old now.

I think that's supposed to be the Stig.

According to Kaz, it is. It was implemented to apease the fans, so it's no wonder it feels tacked on.

I'm not gonna tell them "take it out, it sucks" but man I wish they'd put some more work into it. I asked for it and I got it. It's like a guy who can't eat a hamburger without a good soda. He's looking for a sweet refreshing beverage with a strong carbonated bite and get's a watered down , more ice than soda drink that's flat. Hey it's better than nothing but it's taking away from the pleasure of the meal in you had in mind.

 

[t.o.]

delete me

 

[CSLACR]

I'm not gonna tell them "take it out, it sucks" but man I wish they'd put some more work into it. I asked for it and I got it. It's like a guy who can't eat a hamburger without a good soda. He's looking for a sweet refreshing beverage with a strong carbonated bite and get's a watered down , more ice than soda drink that's flat. Hey it's better than nothing but it's taking away from the pleasure of the meal in you had in mind.

That's actually a very good analogy.
But I must admit, 99% of the time, damage in the game has no effect on me, as I try not to crash, but I hate anything half-assed, and to me that's exactly what GT5's damage system is.

 

[jabofu]

So we know that Turn 10 worked with Pirelli for the tyre modell of Forza 4. For Forza 3 they already added tyre deformation and it was already an advanced tyre physic simulation.

I would like to know if there is any information out about the tyre modell/physics of GT5 or previous GTs. I havent read anything about it now and it was never a big topic. Well, the tyres are the most important thing, that will tell you everyone in the sim community. GT5s tyres feel sometimes weird, its a good drive, but not really that convincing.

So does anybody have any information about the tyre physics of GT5???

 

[VXR]

One thing I find odd about both games, is if they are trying to be a sim, why did you have to fit comfort road tyres on GT, which by all accounts are most like the real-world and why are FM3's default tyres like cut Michelin Sports for grip when a road tyre would be more suitable for the majority of cars?

A good thing with the Pirelli deal is you may get different Pirelli characteristics fitted to the appropriate use of the car.

The TG C'eed for example could be using a P6000 data set. A Focus RS could be using a P-Zero Nero and a GT-R could be on a P-Zero Corsa System tyre. That would help realism, knowing your current car is on an appropriate tyre as stock and for many of the lower-end cars, the switch to racing tyres would seem worthwhile.

 

[t.o.]

One thing I find odd about both games, is if they are trying to be a sim, why did you have to fit comfort road tyres on GT, which by all accounts are most like the real-world and why are FM3's default tyres like cut Michelin Sports for grip when a road tyre would be more suitable for the majority of cars?

A good thing with the Pirelli deal is you may get different Pirelli characteristics fitted to the appropriate use of the car.

The TG C'eed for example could be using a P6000 data set. A Focus RS could be using a P-Zero Nero and a GT-R could be on a P-Zero Corsa System tyre. That would help realism, knowing your current car is on an appropriate tyre as stock and for many of the lower-end cars, the switch to racing tyres would seem worthwhile.

This and that. With both games it is difficult to figure out exactly what you're supposed to be driving on. With a standard manufacturer supplying all tire data and HOPEFULLY getting to know what you're riding on should make a big difference to the whole immersion of the game. I was worried about this at first though. I thought we'd get like 3 tires from these guys but it seems like there will be a wider range than that. At least I hope so.

 

[Luminis]

I'm still hoping that we're not going to get the choice of "Comfort Tyres, Street Tyres, Spport Tyres and Racing Tyres" in FM4, but that licensed Pirelli tyres will be available.
Not all of them, but at least a few that would somewhat reflect the different quality levels of tyres you can chose from.

That way, we can finally telll whether the tyres are somewhat true to what they should really perform like.

 

[CSLACR]

According to GT5, I believe the claim is every car comes with "factory" tires out of the dealership. High-end cars come with sports hard, medium range usually get comfort soft, and low level entry's like Fiat get comfort medium.

The trick is, "street" tires come in more than 3 levels of grip, a LOT more, while "sports" or drag radials essentially, typically don't come with the same massively varying levels of grip.
So I think in GT5, your sports hard tire, is actually something more like major brands top-of-the-line tires, (ZR1-specific Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires) and comfort soft would be a high-grip but longer lasting road tire, with comfort medium and hard being progressively more street durable.

Another thing to note, is the "lateral g" meter on the screen, is representing what the car can reach in terms of lateral grip, which is quite different than a car can hold on a skid pad.

I've seen a few magazines test cars, only to later test them on a racetrack, and on the track, cars generally increase lateral g's between .20 to .30 compared to skid pad results.

So we know that Turn 10 worked with Pirelli for the tyre modell of Forza 4. For Forza 3 they already added tyre deformation and it was already an advanced tyre physic simulation.

I would like to know if there is any information out about the tyre modell/physics of GT5 or previous GTs. I havent read anything about it now and it was never a big topic. Well, the tyres are the most important thing, that will tell you everyone in the sim community. GT5s tyres feel sometimes weird, its a good drive, but not really that convincing.

So does anybody have any information about the tyre physics of GT5???

To my knowledge Sony and PD do not tell these "secrets".

Anyway my main complaint about GT physics, and this dates before just GT5, is a spinning tire does not generate enough forward force, which in turn makes drifting harder, and makes you lose more time when they do get broken loose.
Any thoughts? Am I crazy?

 

[t.o.]

I'm still hoping that we're not going to get the choice of "Comfort Tyres, Street Tyres, Spport Tyres and Racing Tyres" in FM4, but that licensed Pirelli tyres will be available.
Not all of them, but at least a few that would somewhat reflect the different quality levels of tyres you can chose from.

That way, we can finally telll whether the tyres are somewhat true to what they should really perform like.

Yes, this is what I'm talking about too. Hell get rid of the "sports, street, etc." titles altogether unless it's in the actual name of the tire or by company description and let us experiment and find out. Of course you know everyone will just pick the most expensive tires out there.

 

[Luminis]

Yes, this is what I'm talking about too. Hell get rid of the "sports, street, etc." titles altogether unless it's in the actual name of the tire or by company description and let us experiment and find out. Of course you know everyone will just pick the most expensive tires out there.

Pretty much.

I mean, if they already have all of that Pirelly data available, it'd be a complete waste to not attach it to the corresponding Pirelli tyres ingame.
It'd also make some sense for Pirelli, as it'd be some nice advertisement for them.

 

[t.o.]

Pretty much.

I mean, if they already have all of that Pirelly data available, it'd be a complete waste to not attach it to the corresponding Pirelli tyres ingame.
It'd also make some sense for Pirelli, as it'd be some nice advertisement for them.

Here's the ONE thing I'm begging for. Being that Pirelli will be the only tire in the game they wont have to compete against another tire manufacturer in the game. So they wont have to worry about how their tire will look against another. Therefor they just might allow tire failure. I really hope they do. It isn't like Goodyear is in the game and they last longer than P's tires. See where I'm getting at?

 

[Luminis]

See where I'm getting at?

I do, but it's not gonna happen. To 99% of players, losing a race because of something they have no influence on just isn't fun. It's realistic, and therefore, us more sim-oriented people would enjoy it, but I doubt T10 is going to the length of incorporating stuff like that only to please a very small minority of gamers...

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Here's the ONE thing I'm begging for. Being that Pirelli will be the only tire in the game they wont have to compete against another tire manufacturer in the game. So they wont have to worry about how their tire will look against another. Therefor they just might allow tire failure. I really hope they do. It isn't like Goodyear is in the game and they last longer than P's tires. See where I'm getting at?

Why would that happen? I think it is highly unlikely as I think it is up to the car manufacturers. Only possibility is race cars.

 

[kimi123]

Why is this thread in Forza section. This should be in general game discusiion section.

I like to play PC sims but since GT is best console sim it is my fav racing game. Forza IMO is not a sim at all just a racing game with customization.

 

[SuperShouden]

Hey, I just discovered FM4 won't have Porsche! YAY! Now all the Forza fans will stop going "well, Forza has Porsche." Not anymore it doesn't. Guess MS didn't want to keep paying EA for the license. But...but...FM4 does have Halo's Warthog, so...it's not all bad.

 

[Luminis]

Hey, I just discovered FM4 won't have Porsche! YAY! Now all the Forza fans will stop going "well, Forza has Porsche." Not anymore it doesn't. Guess MS didn't want to keep paying EA for the license. But...but...FM4 does have Halo's Warthog, so...it's not all bad.

• If you make a claim back it up with sources - fail to do so and you will be asked to provide them

Source? Oh, you can't provide one, because there is none, as it's just a rumour that came up because someone saw a RUF in the game.
Guess what, not every franchise has to replace Porsche with RUF.

So, I'd like you to name a reliable source, please.

 

[kimi123]

Hey, I just discovered FM4 won't have Porsche! YAY! Now all the Forza fans will stop going "well, Forza has Porsche." Not anymore it doesn't. Guess MS didn't want to keep paying EA for the license. But...but...FM4 does have Halo's Warthog, so...it's not all bad.

I thought Kaz was crazy when he asked Adrain Newey for X2010 instead he should have some more premiums or A1 ring track in Austria rather than RB HQ. But Halo warthog is just silly

So GT5's on rails A.I hitting you is excusable but FM3's dynamic A.I hitting you because you gave them no where else to go is some how a point in GT5's favour?



Oh, and on simulation damage, you won't have a cripple car, you will have a car that you cannot win in.

 

[kimi123]

Double post

 

[Luminis]

I thought Kaz was crazy when he asked Adrain Newey for X2010 instead he should have some more premiums or A1 ring track in Austria rather than RB HQ. But Halo warthog is just silly

Don't tell me you actually believe that?

 

[BubbleBelly542]

GT wins it's on ps3

 

[Luminis]

GT wins it's on ps3

 

[kimi123]

I don't think he was joking.

It is true, the photo travel mode uses higher LOD models than the normal photomode, but there's no difference between game, replay and a photo from a replay (the lighting engine outside of the photomode is actually better).

This is true.

Here is comparision of GT vs Forza photomode. GT is using same detail as in game but Forza uses highest LOD, the actual in game for Forza is pretty bad.

 

[BubbleBelly542]

What is the picture it's not loading on the iPod app.

 

[Luminis]

What is the picture it's not loading on the iPod app.

I wasn't sure whether you were joking/trolling or being serious.

 

[SuperShouden]

Source? Oh, you can't provide one, because there is none, as it's just a rumour that came up because someone saw a RUF in the game.
Guess what, not every franchise has to replace Porsche with RUF.

So, I'd like you to name a reliable source, please.

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/f...orza-motorsport-4-feature-car-track-list.html

check it out. RUF is listed in place of Porsche. And we all know if, RUF's in a game, Porsche isn't.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/f...orza-motorsport-4-feature-car-track-list.html

check it out. RUF is listed in place of Porsche. And we all know if, RUF's in a game, Porsche isn't.

The list does not have 80 manufacturer names so Porsche still might be in. Maybe it is just a question of how much money they give to EA now which they are trying to sort or there is nothing wrong at all or EA trying to keep it exclusive due to sales of Shift 2 being poor. We will know soon.

 

[Luminis]

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/f...orza-motorsport-4-feature-car-track-list.html

How's that a source? That's a random guy making a WIP list on forzacentral. That's as much of a source as if I was making up a list and posted it here. If you can find me a source where a T10 representative says something about the topic, that's when I'll be taking you seriously.

check it out. RUF is listed in place of Porsche. And we all know if, RUF's in a game, Porsche isn't.

What? Is that some kind of law now? As far as I am concerned, that's only true in Gran Turismo Country.

Don't you, dunno, feel embarrassed for posting stuff like that?

The list does not have 80 manufacturer names so Porsche still might be in. Maybe it is just a question of how much money they give to EA now which they are trying to sort or there is nothing wrong at all or EA trying to keep it exclusive due to sales of Shift 2 being poor. We will know all soon I guess.

So far, people are guessing at best. Any list that's out there is just an accumulation of cars that have been seen in trailers and such. So, unless there's an official source saying that Porsche is out, there's little to talk about here.
Some people being under the impression that RUF and Porsche are mutually exclusive doesn't mean anything.