For the 900 Turbo Fans... TurboX Pricing Announced, $33-35K

[YSSMAN]

​

For months, a higher performance Saab 9-3 with the codename "Black Turbo" has been rumored and just this morning General Motors confirmed the car's existence and its official name: Turbo X. The limited-edition vehicle will feature all-wheel-drive, a significant performance boost and unique styling touches. Although details are sketchy at best, Saab released one teaser shot of the new car with one of its predecessors.

The Turbo X takes its codename, Black Turbo, from a nickname for some of the high-performance 900 and 99 models of the 1970s and '80s that once graced Saab's lineup. The '08 variant will feature all-wheel-drive (called XWD to Saab) and, according to Trollhattan Saab, a 280-horsepower version of the Aero's turbocharged 2.8-liter V6. The Aero's engine tops out at 255 horsepower. Also expected is a sophisticated rear limited slip differential called eLSD.

From the one teaser photo released so far, we can see that the Turbo X will feature a unique front fascia that's subtly modified over the standard 2008 9-3. We'll have more information on the newest Saab as we get closer to its Frankfurt Motor Show premiere.

Awesome. I heart the Saab 900 Turbo, always have, always will. Bringing the car back should hopefully light the fire beneath Saab's ass again, although, its hard to do much anymore with established German brands running the show these days. If they can make it as crazy and as cool as the origional, then by all means, do it. I just hope they do a 9000 Turbo remake as well...

Oh, and one more thing:

I'm calling for a return to the name "Viggen," because it simply rocked.

 

[TheCracker]

I hope in respect to the original 900 Turbo, the developers have engineered in a high level of torque-steer 👍

 

[Jim Prower]

With AWD, I doubt it.

If we're going for a fighter jet name return, it'd only be appropriate to call it "Gripen," after Saab's most recent fighter. Should be an interesting competitor for the Legacy GT.

 

[JCE]

Awesome. I heart the Saab 900 Turbo, always have, always will.

Awsome indeed. Should be a great car, especially with AWD and a selectable diff.

 

[Kent]

With all wheel drive this could be cool although I'm not expecting much.
The Viggen was the king of torque-steer and an outright poor performer compared to the cars of its class.
If this car's execution is on par with the Viggen then I wouldn't consider this much of a contender.

However, for the better of all mankind it seems Saab is ready to ditch the FWD of the Viggen and all the problems to go with it.

On a side note, I certainly hope they get the engine right...
The Viggen ran so much boost it was rediculus... I think it was 29psi.
That's just crazy. (although I must admit that I could be wrong about the exact psi of the Viggen's high output I4 from the Viggen).

 

[Tornado]

Wait, what? There was always plans to do a 280 horse AWD 9-3 when it was refreshed recently. Is this any different than the normal AWD Aero, or is it just the U.S. name for it?

 

[Bram Turismo]

Finally a powerful AWD Saab, you can't wrong with an Aero

 

[YSSMAN]

Wait, what? There was always plans to do a 280 horse AWD 9-3 when it was refreshed recently. Is this any different than the normal AWD Aero, or is it just the U.S. name for it?

I think this "Black Turbo" designation is going to be the next step above their general sport-oriented Aero options. Kinda like GXP over GTP at Pontiac... Still, it should be a screamer. Problem is, most of the other cars it will be competing against will have an extra 20 BHP over it...

 

[Tornado]

I think this "Black Turbo" designation is going to be the next step above their general sport-oriented Aero options. Kinda like GXP over GTP at Pontiac...

The thing is, that news makes it sound like the "Black Turbo" is just the U.S. name for the Aero with AWD (what with how the AWD system and power numbers are hyped despite being identicle to the normal Aero AWD). Maybe if it has some bonza suspension over the normal Aero or something, but whatever.

Still, it should be a screamer. Problem is, most of the other cars it will be competing against will have an extra 20 BHP over it...

What other cars?

 

[YSSMAN]

BMW 335i, Lexus IS350, Infiniti G35S, Cadillac CTS 3.6, etc... I think it really only tumps the S60 and C350, if I'm not mistaken...

 

[Tornado]

BMW 335i,

Good point. The 335xi will probably be somewhat more expensive (to the tune of 3-4 grand more), though.

Lexus IS350,

Comes only with a slushbox and no AWD. Also will probably cost roughly the same. Has a lot less torque.

Infiniti G35S,

Cheaper, but not as well put together as the Saab. Also only comes with AWD if you want a slushbox. Has a lot less torque.

Cadillac CTS 3.6

Still isn't put together as well as the 9-3, and suffers from looking like it does. We also (or at least I don't) know how the engine to drivetrain combos will be. They may shaft you with the old 3.6L for AWD cars. It will also undoubtably be far heavier. Has a lot less torque.

 

[YSSMAN]

All very true, but I still think the point is valid. Granted, I still think the Saab is a good deal, and should be quite the performer (hopefully)...

On the CTS for a moment: Cadillac will offer the 304 BHP V6 with the 6L80E automatic and AWD, but I have no idea what the price increase will be on the car. And as far as perceived build quality is concerned, I think the gap has been closed significantly.

 

[Leonidae]

I wonder if it will be as horrid driving experience as the original 99/900-series Saabs..

 

[High-Test]

I hope it drives as magnificently go-karty as the 2003-2006 9-3.

I'm still waiting for this car's quirk. Saab's got to be quirky somehow.

 

[YSSMAN]

UPDATE!

Though scheduled to debut next Tuesday at the 2007 Frankfurt Motor Show, the special edition Saab Turbo X has arrived a bit early courtesy of one particular Swede-o-phile over at Trollhattansaab.net. Actually, only three more images have arrived, but in addition to the front teaser shot that Saab had already released, the new pics show the car from the rear, as well as its exclusive blacked-out interior.

To refresh, the Saab Turbo X will debut the automaker's new XWD all-wheel drive system from Haldex. It's capable of dividing power between the front and rear wheels, but also from side to side in the rear thanks to a new electronic slip differential. Saab's 2.8L turbocharged V6 has been worked over for duty in the Turbo X and now produces 280 hp, up from 255, and 295 ft-lbs. of torque. Trollhattan reports that it will be good for a 5.7 second sprint to 62 mph, which makes it one of the fastest Saabs we've ever heard of.

The gofastedness of the Saab Turbo X will be backed up by a jet black paint job that harkens back to the "Black Turbos" of old from Saab. The XWD system will be twisting a set of particularly handsome 19-inch wheels, though North American customers will be limited to 18-inchers for some reason. Finally, a new front bumper with larger air intake, rear deck lid and dual exhausts round out the exterior treatment.

Only 2,000 Turbo X models will be produced worldwide, though they will be available as both a sedan and Sport Combi wagon. We expect more official images to be waiting for us when we touch down in Frankfurt, and we'll fill up our camera with live shots of Saab Turbo X for you, as well.

 

[Philly]

I never cease to be amazed at how much stuff from other cars you can find if you look. Aside from the wheels and the tail lights, this car looks pretty good.

However, on the interior I am seeing bits from other cars. The center armrest looks like it was ripped straight from a GTI. The door handles, driver door grab-handle, rear vents and climate dials look like they had some influence coming from VW. I can't complain, though. There is enough difference to make it unique enough. Plus, I'm sure these are the same on the regular version of the car, so there really isn't anything that can be done. Other than that, the all black looks great.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> It looks very promising. Especially I like the way they designed those Acura TL-like rear-end. 👍

-> I like they way Saab is heading on this one, going head to head against these cars:

- Subaru Legacy 2.5GT spec.B
- BMW 335xi
- Infiniti G35x
- Mercedes Benz C300 Sport 4Matic
- Audi A4 2.0T Quattro
- Mazdaspeed 6*
- Chrysler 300C
- Jaguar X-Type 3.0 AWD
- Volvo S60R*

* = Recently dropped this year

-> Hmm, 18 inchers for the US version, maybe to calm the hash ride for highway driving? Sounds stupid if you ask me. Hopefully it totally resembles the 19 inch version.

 

[YSSMAN]

Given that the Saab will come up short in power against several of those cars my guess is that they're hoping to win-out on overall driving performance. My guess is that this will be the most fun Saab since the 9-3 Viggen, and maybe a return to fun Saabs overall, something that has been lacking for far too long.

Of course, then again, that kinda depends on how good the new Epsilon II chassis will be, given that all of the new cars will ride on it.

===

All of this being said, back to that list;

My guess is that the Saab wouldn't have too much of a problem with the Legacy or the C300, furthermore the A4 with the 2.0T. Its going to be the BMW and the Infiniti that eat the Saab alive, and while the 300C AWD may lack the handling "finesse" it will certainly make up for that in raw acceleration performance.

And the Jaguar? Well, I've never really considered it a good car, ever.

I'm still wondering about the price on this Saab though. The new CTS 3.6 DI with AWD should ring in right around $37K with what I'd want, and while I'd imagine that Saab would undercut it, I do worry if the gap is too narrow.

...And then there is always that pesky Pontiac G8 sitting in the background...

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> The Saab wouln't be a problem against the Subie? I won't underestimate the LGT too easily, especially it gave the Quattro and the MSpd6 a run for their money here. If the A4 2.0T isn't enough, then there's the 3.2.

-> The G8 has AWD? I didn't see that coming. I also can't judge the CTS AWD, since it hasn't tested yet so it TBD same goes with the G8. And the X-Type is a worthless vehicle anyway, I laugh whoever drives/owns them.

 

[McLaren]

It's still a Saab....
[/Doug]

 

[forza2.0]

Given that the Saab will come up short in power against several of those cars my guess is that they're hoping to win-out on overall driving performance. My guess is that this will be the most fun Saab since the 9-3 Viggen, and maybe a return to fun Saabs overall, something that has been lacking for far too long.

Of course, then again, that kinda depends on how good the new Epsilon II chassis will be, given that all of the new cars will ride on it.

===

All of this being said, back to that list;

My guess is that the Saab wouldn't have too much of a problem with the Legacy or the C300, furthermore the A4 with the 2.0T. Its going to be the BMW and the Infiniti that eat the Saab alive, and while the 300C AWD may lack the handling "finesse" it will certainly make up for that in raw acceleration performance.

And the Jaguar? Well, I've never really considered it a good car, ever.

I'm still wondering about the price on this Saab though. The new CTS 3.6 DI with AWD should ring in right around $37K with what I'd want, and while I'd imagine that Saab would undercut it, I do worry if the gap is too narrow.

...And then there is always that pesky Pontiac G8 sitting in the background...

In germany its common knowledge that when the A4's competitors are equipped with 4wd the A4 is easily the best. Give a 3 series 4wd and it become mediocre.

 

[Tornado]

I would still like to know what the difference is (if any) between this Turbo X and the normal Saab 9-3 Aero with AWD. Car and Driver didn't mention Turbo X in their recent test of AWD 9-3 prototypes, either.

- Subaru Legacy 2.5GT spec.B

A competitor that I hadn't thought of, to be honest. Probably a closer competitor than many of the others here.

- BMW 335xi

Good point. The 335xi will probably be somewhat more expensive (to the tune of 3-4 grand more), though.

- Infiniti G35x

Cheaper, but not as well put together as the Saab. Also only comes with AWD if you want a slushbox. Has a lot less torque.

- Mercedes Benz C300 Sport 4Matic

Less power.

- Audi A4 2.0T Quattro

Way, way less power.

- Chrysler 300C

In a completely lower league when it comes to build quality, sadly enough. Way, way heavier.

- Jaguar X-Type 3.0 AWD

The only good X-Type is the wagon. And even that is junk.

The new CTS 3.6 DI with AWD should ring in right around $37K with what I'd want, and while I'd imagine that Saab would undercut it, I do worry if the gap is too narrow.

Way, way way heavier.

...And then there is always that pesky Pontiac G8 sitting in the background...

In a completely different class.

If the A4 2.0T isn't enough, then there's the 3.2.

Still quite a bit down on power. And is most likely going to be more expensive.

 

[YSSMAN]

While the Pontiac G8 is in a different class and thus far, doesn't offer AWD (my guess is that it will happen, eventually, if Holden does it), in price it certainly moves about the same area. But yes, it is bigger, has the V8, RWD, etc...

Saab is presumably aiming the AeroX at the A4, given that Cadillac is supposed to be taking on BMW and Mercedes these days. If the car is as spry as Car and Driver made it out to be even in FWD form, I really don't have many doubts about the AeroX bringing back much of that old-time Saab flavor. C/D's quick test of the 280 BHP XWD model noted that while the handling was indeed fun, the power increase wasn't immediately apparent... They assumed the weight gain was the problem.

We'll see I suppose. AFAIK, the 5.7 second (probably conservative) 0-62 time seems a bit slow, given the 300 BHP models that it will be competing against in the class.

---

And yes, I realized that I underestimated the Legacy GT. I apologize. Its a car that generally doesn't sit on my radar too frequently... And the Spec.B model? I usually don't count it since we get so few here in the US. Although, I do wonder about quality comparisons between Subaru and Saab...

===

Oh, and we all forgot about one other competitor:

The Volkswagen Passat 3.6 4MOTION

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

A competitor that I hadn't thought of, to be honest. Probably a closer competitor than many of the others here.

^ I still don't get it, on why people overlook this car (well except for Pako of course who just got the LGT recently), despite its ugliness for the 2008 model, this car is very formidable.

Good point. The 335xi will probably be somewhat more expensive (to the tune of 3-4 grand more), though.

^ People will just get it because its a BMW.

Cheaper, but not as well put together as the Saab. Also only comes with AWD if you want a slushbox. Has a lot less torque.

^ Well, that's a bummer, but the majority of people here in the US drives slushboxes, so they wouln't mind.

Less power.

=Same case with BMW=

Way, way less power.

=Same case with BMW=

In a completely lower league when it comes to build quality, sadly enough. Way, way heavier.

^ Only die-hard domestic fans or people who are afraid of corners will get this car.

The only good X-Type is the wagon. And even that is junk.

^ Everyone here agrees that this car is useless.

Way, way way heavier.

^ Oh the new CTS is already heavy at it is on the RWD version, I read the C/D article and it was the heaviest of the trio (335i and C350 S all RWD). I hope it won't be a porker when it comes out. +TBD+

In a completely different class.

^ Yup, I agree, way below the CTS. Its competitor is the Charger. Since the next 'Pala SS and the next Ford "Falcon" hasn't come out yet.

Still quite a bit down on power. And is most likely going to be more expensive.

=Same case with BMW=

-> Most people who buys in these price range will look at the brand FIRST (BMW, MBZ, Audi, Lexus, Jaguar, and Infiniti). Very few people will look its true capabilities. I'm with Pako, I'd go with the spec.B.

EDIT-> Oh, I forgot!

The Volkswagen Passat 3.6 4MOTION

^ I do hope it won't step on Audi's toes on that one. Thats why I didn't include it.

 

[YSSMAN]

A quick read on the Cadillac website prices a 3.6 DIG AWD with the FE3 sports suspension at a hair over $40K, presumably a pretty wide margin over the Saab, and really well-short of the BMW and Mercedes. I hear that the CTS rings in just over 4000 lbs with the AWD setup, so it by no means is a small car... Given that its the same size as a 5-series, it really isn't much of a surprise...

@ the 300C Comment: I really don't disagree with the assertion that only die-hard American folks would buy them, but that does not take away from the fact that it still is a great car in the class. It still handles and drives quite well, and while I have yet to see the "updated" interior Chrysler keeps blathering about, it by no means is a slouch that shouldn't be an option. Problem is, the only AWD 300C I can think of is one that I saw at an autoshow... And this is Michigan afterall...

---

As for the Passat stepping on big brother's shoes, I'm uncertain. Volkswagen has done a far better job keeping the two separate since the platform split, but they still very much seem like very similar cars. The Vee Dub is certainly cheaper, has a bit more "oomph" under the hood, and certainly is built just as well... Performance wise, I want to say they are eerily similar, but I can't recall specifics at the moment.

 

[forza2.0]

The passat only really seems to sell in Germany. What are its sales like in the US?

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, the Jetta reportedly makes up somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% of all of their US models, but I want to say the Passat isn't too far behind. I tend to see more Passats here in Grand Rapids than I do Golfs and Jettas, but thats mainly because of the middle-class and upper-middle-class flavor of the city. They sold a bit shy of a quarter-million cars last year (actually about 240K), and assuming that the Passat moves even 15% of that number, that comes out to about 35-37K cars per year.

 

[High-Test]

As always, Bar none the prettiest interior around. But, that grainy black Dashboard plastic will be nearly impossible to keep clean.

 

[forza2.0]

Well, the Jetta reportedly makes up somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% of all of their US models, but I want to say the Passat isn't too far behind. I tend to see more Passats here in Grand Rapids than I do Golfs and Jettas, but thats mainly because of the middle-class and upper-middle-class flavor of the city. They sold a bit shy of a quarter-million cars last year (actually about 240K), and assuming that the Passat moves even 15% of that number, that comes out to about 35-37K cars per year.

Shows how different our markets are. In the UK the jetta is a failure and the passat sales are so so. The passat sells well in germany though. Golfs are evrywhere all over europe.

 

[Jim Prower]

I want "Gripen" badges on mine...