Formula 1 2009: The Launch Season
- Thread starter Metar
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The slicks can channel away as much heat as the cut-grooves we had so far - that won't be the difference. Tyre-wise, the "pattern" on the grooved tyres was that of no pattern at all: A slick tyre with circumferential grooves on it, which means that while the contact-patch is reduced in size, there's no difference in the way it channels water: You can think of it as 4 separate, thin Slicks, all next to each other. At the same time, however, the tyre cools down faster, because it has a larger surface-area (the area inside the groove) which comes into contact with the cold air/water/spray. As other, wiser men said in the Brazil thread - a Slick tyre grips better than these "cut-slicks" that we've had in the past few years.
Tired Tyres
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Every race driver I've ever heard comment on the Slicks verses Grooved tyres issue has said that Slicks are better than Grooves under any wet track situation.
Indeed - It's a matter of physics. More surface area yields higher traction than less surface area. Even if the surface is wet, creating a lower friction coefficient, more surface area is still better. Channels don't wick water away at all, in fact like Metar said, they only act to cool the tires more quickly.
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As it is, today Bourdais was 2.2 seconds quicker (with the 2008 STR) than Hamilton, but I don't know if he was running with slicks.
Hamilton (2009 car, but 2008 rear wing) was just two tenths quicker than Alonso (full2009 car).
And Alonso was 1.4 seconds faster than Rosberg (2009 car also), so I guess Renault definitely is showing impressive speed.
(all to be taken with a grain of salt, of course, this is testing ... )
Jerez - 13/02/2009
1 . S. Bourdais - Toro Rosso Ferrari STR3* - 1:17.472 (+ 0.000 ) - 117 laps
2 . L. Hamilton - McLaren Mercedes MP4-24 - 1:19.632 (+ 2.160 ) - 94 laps
3 . F. Alonso - Renault R29 - 1:19.846 (+ 2.374 ) - 109 laps
4 . N. Rosberg - Williams Toyota FW31 - 1:21.217 (+ 3.745 ) - 71 laps
5 . M. Webber - Red Bull Renault RB5 - 1:21.313 (+ 3.841 ) - 62 laps
6 . K. Nakajima - Williams Toyota FW31 - -- (+ 12.528 ) - 34 laps.
Hamilton (2009 car, but 2008 rear wing) was just two tenths quicker than Alonso (full2009 car).
And Alonso was 1.4 seconds faster than Rosberg (2009 car also), so I guess Renault definitely is showing impressive speed.
(all to be taken with a grain of salt, of course, this is testing ... )
Jerez - 13/02/2009
1 . S. Bourdais - Toro Rosso Ferrari STR3* - 1:17.472 (+ 0.000 ) - 117 laps
2 . L. Hamilton - McLaren Mercedes MP4-24 - 1:19.632 (+ 2.160 ) - 94 laps
3 . F. Alonso - Renault R29 - 1:19.846 (+ 2.374 ) - 109 laps
4 . N. Rosberg - Williams Toyota FW31 - 1:21.217 (+ 3.745 ) - 71 laps
5 . M. Webber - Red Bull Renault RB5 - 1:21.313 (+ 3.841 ) - 62 laps
6 . K. Nakajima - Williams Toyota FW31 - -- (+ 12.528 ) - 34 laps.
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He was - nobody runs grooved tyres now, and Bridgestone doesn't supply them anymore. A 2008 car on slicks allows us to see, more or less, how much slicks affect laptimes. Also note that the Toyota, BMW and Ferrari squads ran laptimes around those of last year's Bahrain pole-position!
The Renault's lap was set during a 9-lap stint - so unless the car itself was underweight at the time (which is possible with the R29 - Symmonds said it's very underweight, and that even with KERS, they have almost 60kg of ballast to move around), that's some pretty impressive pace. It was set fairly early in the morning, and they were the first 2009 cars to break the 1'20 barrier.
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If the Red Bull stays reliable, then they're a definite contender. Toyota... I'd doubt that. They've been average in testing, and lost a ton of valuable time at Bahrain this week.
As for the 2008 wing on the McLaren - it produces different levels of downforce and drag, but you can approximate it to the levels of downforce you'll want to have on a wing that's not ready yet. It's useful for testing the mechanical side of the car - KERS, balance, handling and tyre wear - just like the Toro Rosso team kept running the STR3/RB4 car on slicks.
As for the 2008 wing on the McLaren - it produces different levels of downforce and drag, but you can approximate it to the levels of downforce you'll want to have on a wing that's not ready yet. It's useful for testing the mechanical side of the car - KERS, balance, handling and tyre wear - just like the Toro Rosso team kept running the STR3/RB4 car on slicks.
Roo
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As well as Moglet's points, I believe McLaren are also running an '08 wing for stability. The teams aren't always testing aerodynamics.
Interestingly (if like me you like that sort of thing), Toyota are the only team on the grid not to have won in one form or another - Force India used to be Jordan, who won 4 GPs, and Red Bull was originally Stewart, who won the 1999 European GP.
KSaiyu
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Well this is the first time I've seen the Red Bull car (damn work) and it really is something. The front wing makes the Renault's look crude in comparison and you've got to wonder whether other teams have dropped the ball, are planning radical developments or are seeing something Red Bull is missing with more simplistic wings. And wow at the pull rod suspension, it makes the rear look a bit like a lower formula car and IMO all the better for it.
EDIT: Oh, and regarding the news Metar posted about Honda's revival it would be great for Honda, but I really feel Bruno should have been in GP2 this year.
EDIT: Oh, and regarding the news Metar posted about Honda's revival it would be great for Honda, but I really feel Bruno should have been in GP2 this year.
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KSaiyu
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But the big question is ... who's the buyer? There's talk that a Brazilian-backed outfit is Honda's saviour, but there's nearly two hundred million people in the country, so we're basically playing pin the tail on a donkey that is larger than Australia.
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Except Massa wasn't on pole at Bahrain? 
Kubica was, with a 1'33.096 on race-fuel. Massa set the fastest lap in Q2 with a 1'31.188. The lap you posted was Massa's fastest from Friday Practice 1.
Current expectations are for the same times as 2008. Currently, cars are just two seconds slower than a 2008 car on slicks, and lapping more or less where the old cars lapped.
Kubica was, with a 1'33.096 on race-fuel. Massa set the fastest lap in Q2 with a 1'31.188. The lap you posted was Massa's fastest from Friday Practice 1.
Current expectations are for the same times as 2008. Currently, cars are just two seconds slower than a 2008 car on slicks, and lapping more or less where the old cars lapped.
mustang245
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mustang245
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Thank you.
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Will they ever learn....
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Still a risk imo.
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I don't see the point if they use the lollipop anyway. Why spend so much developing this system and then use the original system anyway?
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