Forza 6's unrelenting oversteer.

[johnnyman123]

Hey guys, I want to first start off by saying I do *NOT* own Forza 6...but I am rather doing research to see if I should buy an X1 only for the Forza franchise...

Heres the problem, in youtube videos the cars seem to oversteer so much its almost comical. The way the cars behave just seem very very unrealistic to me. Now ofcourse I do not own the game so I wanted to ask others who do own the game if the oversteering really is THAT bad...

unfortunately many if not all have told me it is as bad as the YouTube videos betray.

I am hoping to buy an Xbox1 this summer...but by the looks of it I am not so sure anymore...cars should not oversteer at a tight hairpin at 25 miles per hour...and cars should not be oversteering at every turn of the joystick..it seems the games response to everything is more and more oversteer, rather then legit tire and physics model...it just seems so very wrong to me.

can anyone give me any input on this??

Sincerely, a very confused consumer.

 

[Nielsen]

It's not an issue. People saying otherwise are doing it wrong.

 

[ClydeYellow]

Hm. As I've said before, at launch the game had a bit of a tendency to oversteer. But in its current state, the game's physics are rock solid. Of course, cars with bias ply tires are better driven with your right foot (finger?), and cars with plenty of torque will powerslide easily.

I'm not going to say that they are "life-like" (no sim currently on the market IS "life-like", unless you have a rig simulating g-forces, which would set you back several thousand dollars at the very least), but they're good, and nowadays Forza is one of the few games that seems to be going the right direction (which is not, as some would expect, "MORE OVERSTEER! RACE CARS TRYINA KILL YA!").

 

[TonyJZX]

The cars mostly do not oversteer out of the box. In fact most understeer as a rule. The reason you see so many videos of people powersliding and drifting is because it is fashionable and lets be honest... many people find it fun to do and good to watch.

You cant have watched motoring tv shows and not seen heaps of power sliding.

Thing is, in real life and in games, who the hell likes understeer? If your goal is the win races and do great laps then your ultimate goal is to string together "perfect corners" (which the game is happy to tell you) and that means neutral handling.

If you under or oversteered then you messed up and you should correct. To me I dont find most sim videos great to watch unless there's insightful commentary so since 99% of people talk innane nonsense on youtube they dont talk and just drift... which is fine if your audience wants that.

 

[Nielsen]

cars should not oversteer at a tight hairpin at 25 miles per hour...and cars should not be oversteering at every turn of the joystick..it seems the games response to everything is more and more oversteer, rather then legit tire and physics model...it just seems so very wrong to me.

@ClydeYellow is correct that things have improved since the game released. For example, the oversteer at low-speed hairpins you mention got fixed shortly after the game released. Grip also improved since FM5, so everything feels quite right at this point.

 

[johnnyman123]

Thanks for the reply guys...I feel alot better dropping 300 bucks for an Xbox One now.

So, I should expect a top notch game physics wish in Forza 6? The insane amount of oversteer in youtube videos is something I should ignore?

I am not expect a perfect game physic wish, infact I dont care....I am coming off of Gran turismo 6 which ive played for 2 years and an INLOVE with that game..and by no means was that game realistic....I just dont want the oversteery mess that youtube videos have made so obvious.

Extremely happy to hear Forza 6s physics are top notch.

P.S. ive heard complaints that the 458 Special, as amazing as that car is in real life, really handles like a boat in Forza 6...has this been fixed? To me its a major downfall when a very high tech car with a very safisticated suspension like the 458 special can handle so wrong....

 

[BoneSawTX]

458 is fine to me. The problem is most people over estimate their ability and over drive the car. It's not a F1 car, most these idiots try and drive it like one.

 

[Daffyboo]

Hey guys, I want to first start off by saying I do *NOT* own Forza 6...but I am rather doing research to see if I should buy an X1 only for the Forza franchise...

Heres the problem, in youtube videos the cars seem to oversteer so much its almost comical. The way the cars behave just seem very very unrealistic to me. Now ofcourse I do not own the game so I wanted to ask others who do own the game if the oversteering really is THAT bad...

unfortunately many if not all have told me it is as bad as the YouTube videos betray.

I am hoping to buy an Xbox1 this summer...but by the looks of it I am not so sure anymore...cars should not oversteer at a tight hairpin at 25 miles per hour...and cars should not be oversteering at every turn of the joystick..it seems the games response to everything is more and more oversteer, rather then legit tire and physics model...it just seems so very wrong to me.

can anyone give me any input on this??

Sincerely, a very confused consumer.

Hello there Johnnyman123.

I've owned the game for a month now. New to XB-One myself. I can assure you the game has no control issues. I imagine most people who post these videos are using the out-the-box deadzone settings along with the tap-steer-tap style of steering where they just mash the analog stick like pinball machine flippers.

Setting the deads to 0/100 improves the control by nearly 50% and makes it smoother, more precise. I also read up on how they've been improving the game with updates. Well, when I installed mine, it downloaded all the updates so I can't tell how control used to be prior.

I'd also recommend setting your steering scheme to 'normal', as 'simulation' can make cars unnecessarily slidey and introduces a tendency to understeer or oversteer when they shouldn't. Not only that, it can make countersteering feel strange as the driver gets very overzealous and starts to steer twice as fast when you slide.

Anyway, that has been my experience so far. The control on the pad is quite good and responsive although I was hoping to see settings for adjusting steering rate, speed sensitivity, all that stuff.

Deads 0/100 and steering set to normal. You'll do fine.

 

[05XR8]

I like to dial in understeer when I'm TUNING some of MY cars. In mentioning that, many stock standard cars do handle well without tuning.

 

[johnnyman123]

Thanks guys

anymore testimonials about the physics in Forza 6? Seems like the game has gotten better with updates/patches...

just 2 quick questions...is there anyway to adjust your starting position on the grid? I noticed in 24 car races, the player is always placed in mid pack...id love to set myself 24th and fight my way up the field...I am not always hell bent in getting 1st place...sometimes cracking the top 10 is worthy enough of an accomplishment.

also, in Gran Turismo I find myself always driving everything STOCK..I love driving cars in their purest form...do the cars in Forza drive nicely in stock form? Id hate to have to ticker with the tune just to make it drivable, and with that ruining the stock feel and setup...

 

[prousonhairy]

Thanks guys

anymore testimonials about the physics in Forza 6? Seems like the game has gotten better with updates/patches...

just 2 quick questions...is there anyway to adjust your starting position on the grid? I noticed in 24 car races, the player is always placed in mid pack...id love to set myself 24th and fight my way up the field...I am not always hell bent in getting 1st place...sometimes cracking the top 10 is worthy enough of an accomplishment.

also, in Gran Turismo I find myself always driving everything STOCK..I love driving cars in their purest form...do the cars in Forza drive nicely in stock form? Id hate to have to ticker with the tune just to make it drivable, and with that ruining the stock feel and setup...

You don't always start mid pack, some times for start closer to the front. There are a couple of mods that you can get from mod packs that put you in the back. One you start 22nd, and one starts you in last place. You get extra money if you use it and get a podium finish.
I don't think there's a way to start in the back without using those mod cards.

Most the cars I have driven in stock form drive nicely to me. I haven't driven them all stock, but on most of them I like to drive stock before I put a tune on them.

I've never had an issue with Forzas physics, I've been playing since Forza 3. I've also played a lot of Gran Turismo as well. If you like cars and racing games, I think you'll like the Forza series. The horizon games are also a very nice compliment/change of pace to the main Forza games as well.

 

[Ialyrn]

ive heard complaints that the 458 Special

Back from October of 2015 - F458 Speciale using xbox one controller:

Using Logitech G920 wheel set to 900°:


I tested the car because of people stating it was "undrivable". I also have a ton of other videos driving various cars around in Forza, which goes all the way back to the release of the game. To which a lot of them are driven stock, such as the F458 speciale, and also taken from replays of clean fast laps from Forza 6's Rivals leaderboard section in the majority of cases. I also have videos of FM5 and a few for FM4 also, as well as a few others from other games.

There are a couple of videos where the cars in Forza are drifting, but those are 100% intentional; as I am a drifter in Forza and with Assetto Corsa on the PC.

 

[prousonhairy]

The 458 S has been my car of choice the past couple days in S class ghost leagues. I think it's an awesome car. I'm only in professional leagues, but I've won several races with it, a couple in almost full grids. It does have a Raceboy77 tune on it though.

 

[johnnyman123]

Back from October of 2015 - F458 Speciale using xbox one controller:

Using Logitech G920 wheel set to 900°:


I tested the car because of people stating it was "undrivable". I also have a ton of other videos driving various cars around in Forza, which goes all the way back to the release of the game. To which a lot of them are driven stock, such as the F458 speciale, and also taken from replays of clean fast laps from Forza 6's Rivals leaderboard section in the majority of cases. I also have videos of FM5 and a few for FM4 also, as well as a few others from other games.

There are a couple of videos where the cars in Forza are drifting, but those are 100% intentional; as I am a drifter in Forza and with Assetto Corsa on the PC.

Wow...very good driving, thashing that 458 around and yes looks very drivable to me lol. One thing I noticed was you hitting the rev limiter alot...is that because you are forced to clutch paddle shifting cars? Id hope Turn10 would have fixed that by now as thats a huge oversight...

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Watching replays and videos won't give you an idea of what a game's physics are like. A good example is Seb Loeb Rally, which drives multiple times better than the frankly woeful replays and movement modelling portray.

Thanks guys

anymore testimonials about the physics in Forza 6? Seems like the game has gotten better with updates/patches...

Physics were minutely adjusted in a patch. At least some people think so, nothing was officially announced but people seemed to notice something

just 2 quick questions...is there anyway to adjust your starting position on the grid? I noticed in 24 car races, the player is always placed in mid pack...id love to set myself 24th and fight my way up the field...I am not always hell bent in getting 1st place...sometimes cracking the top 10 is worthy enough of an accomplishment.

In quick race you get options to start from pole/mid pack/back of pack, don't think you can choose your exact grid position number. Career racing is usually random with a focus on mid-rear pack; you can equip 'mod cards' that adjust your grid position, either putting you forward or back depending on which ones you use.

also, in Gran Turismo I find myself always driving everything STOCK..I love driving cars in their purest form...do the cars in Forza drive nicely in stock form? Id hate to have to ticker with the tune just to make it drivable, and with that ruining the stock feel and setup...

Cars drive very nice in stock form. They get undriveable when you start putting stupid engine upgrades in them haha

One annoyance I have with Forza's driving as a whole are the active features of a vehicle, such as DRS or KERS systems that are either automatic, or unrealistically locked on. You can't control them. Most notable on the Lotus E23, which would be far nicer to drive if DRS wasn't speed-triggered and you weren't getting the full 900 KERS horsepower all the time.

 

[Ialyrn]

Wow...very good driving, thashing that 458 around and yes looks very drivable to me lol. One thing I noticed was you hitting the rev limiter alot...is that because you are forced to clutch paddle shifting cars? Id hope Turn10 would have fixed that by now as thats a huge oversight...

The way T10 do the whole gear shifting thing could use some work, but it isnt too bad. The clutch modeling is fairly good while using an actual clutch pedal. I wouldn't let the whole clutch thing in Forza put you off however, as for that one little thing that is off, the actual driving physics are quite good. You get actual weight transfer, torque steer, and things of that nature in Forza. This is why a lot of people have issues with the game to be fair, as well as expecting the game to be fully "arcade"; which is a thing that exceptionally die hard fans of GT used to put about when Forza first released. It gets treated as though it is need for speed, and then people get a rude awakening when they try to drive the cars like they would in that game.

As long as you use finesse with your driving, use proper driving/racing etiquette, and that you treat the cars with the same sort of respect you would in real life; you will get on fine with Forza.

 

[VXR]

If you buy Forza, but the Porsche expansion. Take the 996 GT3 and drive it as it should be driven. That thing shows just about every handling trait possible, depending on how well or poorly it's driven. It's the mist fun I've had in this game and that's a very high bar indeed.

 

[Daffyboo]

Back from October of 2015 - F458 Speciale using xbox one controller:

Using Logitech G920 wheel set to 900°:


I tested the car because of people stating it was "undrivable". I also have a ton of other videos driving various cars around in Forza, which goes all the way back to the release of the game. To which a lot of them are driven stock, such as the F458 speciale, and also taken from replays of clean fast laps from Forza 6's Rivals leaderboard section in the majority of cases. I also have videos of FM5 and a few for FM4 also, as well as a few others from other games.

There are a couple of videos where the cars in Forza are drifting, but those are 100% intentional; as I am a drifter in Forza and with Assetto Corsa on the PC.

Ialyrn, are you using simulation or normal in both those videos?

I can see you getting better turn-in in the second video around sharper mid to low speed bends.

 

[Ialyrn]

Ialyrn, are you using simulation or normal in both those videos?

I was using normal steering in both videos, but I can do the same with Simulation steering. I just don't like sim steering, as it makes the game feel unrealistic to me. The steering becomes really sensitive to initial turn in, as well as with counter steer. This mainly effects the the first 5° of movement with the steering input on a control pad or a wheel. The way to get around it on the control pad, is to not put yourself in a situation where you need to apply counter steer, which is nigh on impossible when driving on the edge. For instance, I still have to counter steer in games like iRacing and Assetto Corsa.

The other way around it, is to become proficient at steering a car with the throttle. If you do it right, it minimizes how much you need to counter steer. This means that you can change the pitch of the car through the corner by applying a little extra throttle, or by letting go if it ever so slightly. You just have to make sure you adjust in very small increments.

I can see you getting better turn-in in the second video around sharper mid to low speed bends.

It only appears that way because I have a better area of movement on the wheel compared to the game pad. The wheel is at 900° when I am driving road cars, but the control pad only uses 180° of total steering rotation. This is why games like Forza have steering assists built into it, such as speed sensitivity and filtering. As you wouldn't be able to control the cars otherwise. This allows you to be overall smoother on a wheel compare to a control pad. The majority of the driver aids are turned off while a wheel in is use.

 

[novadave]

Forza 6 cars for the most part do have a tendency to have default setups that tend to oversteer on many cars and classes.
But it is avoidable if you do not overdrive the cars to extreme. The ones that you see in most video`s are simply over doing it.
One thing for sure is that Forza has always been a game where if you can tune the car you will always be at a advantage.
The oversteer by default can be tuned out to a point where it is no longer a issue.
Example - lately I have been running in the S-class leagues at the elite level with a car that had a bad case of oversteer - tuned it and reduced lap times by an average of 2 seconds per lap ( softer rear suspension - rear toe in - bump settings - etc etc.)
Example - Lime Rock full - in the 52 seconds per lap steady. And this time is with a steering wheel under simulation settings.
So do not worry about what some have said - just learn to tune and you will have plenty of good times with Forza.

 

[UKMikey]

I'm afraid the only learning I've done about tuning is how to type "raceboy77" on the search page

 

[BlazeTheCat05]

Tuning has practically become second nature to me at this point. I'm the guy you'll see running a Land Rover Defender in C Class against leaderboard Civics, and actually keeping pace if not overtaking them. Before they banned heavyweight cars from non-ghost hoppers, I had a killer D400 GMC Vandura tune that could go toe-to-toe with the EK Civics and Willy's Jeeps that the LB warriors used. I find that using the same setup for a particular drivetrain works for my driving style. For example, in a FWD car, I tend to set the diff to 25% acceleration, and 15% deceleration/braking. Works everytime for me.

Matter of fact, I just finished lapping a Dodge SRT-4 with a Turbo Rally engine swap around Road America. Beat a guy's M1 time by about 2 seconds. Mind you, my SRT-4 is still FF. In the right hands, the turbo rally engine can be an unbelievably good choice for an engine swap. With the right gearing setup, and the right diff setup, it's a beast.

Anyway, a bit off topic, but I saw the posts regarding tuning and figured I'd throw in my two-cents.

 

[johnnyman123]

I am not much of a tuner. If Gran Turismo 6 is any indication, I just buy a car in its most stock purest form andI keep it like that forever lol. I love driving stock, I hope I dont have to tune much cars to make them drivable.

 

[VXR]

You won't. You'll have to drive them properly to get the best out of them, as you'd expect in the real car. I offer my review thread in the photomode section to give you a taste of how a selection of cars perform in the game. Each I've driven has been consistent with what I expected from them.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/vxr-fm6.334686/

 

[johnnyman123]

Haha VXR, your thread is very appealing to me...ill def be reading some posts starying now.

 

[Daffyboo]

I was using normal steering in both videos, but I can do the same with Simulation steering. I just don't like sim steering, as it makes the game feel unrealistic to me. The steering becomes really sensitive to initial turn in, as well as with counter steer. This mainly effects the the first 5° of movement with the steering input on a control pad or a wheel. The way to get around it on the control pad, is to not put yourself in a situation where you need to apply counter steer, which is nigh on impossible when driving on the edge. For instance, I still have to counter steer in games like iRacing and Assetto Corsa.

The other way around it, is to become proficient at steering a car with the throttle. If you do it right, it minimizes how much you need to counter steer. This means that you can change the pitch of the car through the corner by applying a little extra throttle, or by letting go if it ever so slightly. You just have to make sure you adjust in very small increments.



It only appears that way because I have a better area of movement on the wheel compared to the game pad. The wheel is at 900° when I am driving road cars, but the control pad only uses 180° of total steering rotation. This is why games like Forza have steering assists built into it, such as speed sensitivity and filtering. As you wouldn't be able to control the cars otherwise. This allows you to be overall smoother on a wheel compare to a control pad. The majority of the driver aids are turned off while a wheel in is use.

Yes Ialyrn, I share your sentiments.

Been playing the game for a month now I guess, and have been switching between sim and normal to see which one not only fits but feels more realistic. I tried the same cars stock and upgraded. Tuned them up, then gave it a go at the same tracks for several laps, using the two steering modes.

I've got to put my money on normal - it just feels more accurate. The tires feel they are making better contact with the road surface. When you want to throw your car hard around a tight bend and brake late or trail brake, the car behaves as you would expect. The front tires just behave as they should. I like it, it feels much closer to real high-speed driving.

To me, sim feels like the cars have a tendency to start sliding if you don't drive how the game wants you to drive using this mode. I can best put it this way. Maybe the developers wanted to attract the pure PC sim enthusiasts with this setting, but I do not feel it is realistic, at least not on a controller, with all the assists off and deadzones at zero in/max outside.

The game is challenging and realistic enough on a controller, in fact IMO it has probably one of the best control I've experienced in a racing game. As long as you keep it on 'normal'.

 

[Demetrius 81]

As long as you keep it on 'normal'.

Could not agree less, I have always used sim steering since the option to use it became available(F4) and whether im using a controller or a wheel I enjoy the game as much as the next person. The reason I use sim steering has nothing to do with realism (though I don't consider sim steering to be any less realistic than normal) but rather removing as much assistance by the game as possible as I feel it dilutes my experience. This is how I and many others enjoy the driving in Forza, the game is no less playable, consistent or enjoyable than it is for those of you who choose to use normal steering or any other assist for that matter.

 

[BoneSawTX]

So the lesson learned here on normal vs. Sim is pick one and stick with, it's all personal preference.

 

[Daffyboo]

Could not agree less, I have always used sim steering since the option to use it became available(F4) and whether im using a controller or a wheel I enjoy the game as much as the next person. The reason I use sim steering has nothing to do with realism (though I don't consider sim steering to be any less realistic than normal) but rather removing as much assistance by the game as possible as I feel it dilutes my experience. This is how I and many others enjoy the driving in Forza, the game is no less playable, consistent or enjoyable than it is for those of you who choose to use normal steering or any other assist for that matter.

Well, even though I'm fairly new to the game, I can clearly feel there are assists in both cases. I.e. the speed-sensitivity that keeps you from turning more if you want to. Under the 'sim' scheme of things, this ability is hampered further when you brake hard or want to trail-break at the apex - the game makes it hard to get a deep turn angle, which is not the case with normal.

Oh well, I suppose one size does not fit all in this case.

 

[Demetrius 81]

I can clearly feel there are assists in both cases. I.e. the speed-sensitivity that keeps you from turning more if you want to.

I didn't suggest otherwise and have said as much in another post regarding this topic, what I did say was that I like to remove as much assistance from the game as possible. However this was not the point of my post, my point was that normal steering is not something you need to enjoy the game and for myself (and others) would actually reduce my enjoyment of it, I just don't have the issues with sim steering that you yourself have, I'm just not going to tell you that sim steering is the only way for you to enjoy the game.