Forza Lotus Cup - Multi-class Lotus racing | Discussion thread!

[Wardez]

​

I want to kick off the new Lotus Cup series based on this awesome real life series: here starting in the beginning of next year. I want to run it at the same time as the FMSC series, so expect the continued American Friday night 21:00 (9pm) EST/ 02:00 GMT / 13:00 AEST Saturday connect time.

The series will feature full mixed-class grids of 8 drivers each sharing the track. Full simulation damage and tire/fuel depletion. No aids allowed, real life tracks, rollings starts, 60 minute feature and 90 minute enduros, pre-race qualifying, time trial qualifier will determine first 16 drivers allowed to join the series after which reserve drivers (people that didn't make the top 8 cut in their class) will be given the chance to show up for drivers that don't make certain race weekends - this effectively makes the driver pool secure in that it will be a "first come first served" style participation weekend for each race.

This real life series is an amazing college of semi-pro championships featuring clubs all over the world pitting cars like the Exige Cup, Evora, Elise and 2-Eleven against each other on tracks all over their club territories.

But since this is Forza, we can "afford" to make this a true world cup.

So come on in and help shape the series. Sign-ups aren't going to be taken until I finish the series OP and all of this is replaced in the first post so check in often and have your voice heard, it's much appreciated.





Here's some literature about the series -

Lotus Cup UK results:
http://www.lotrdc.com/results/

And before you read my ideas, be sure to read over or refer back to these technical regulation .pdf's provided to all of the real life Lotus Cup drivers. The following plans are mostly based and inspired from the following regulations:
http://www.lotrdc.com/Docs/2012regs/LoTRDC_LotusCupUK_SuperSport_2012_Regs Draft ONE.pdf

http://www.lotuscupusa.us/images/uploads/NEW_LCUSA_2011_Rulebook.pdf

http://www.lotuscupusa.us/index.php/rules/
​

Some quick details/ideas I've had in mind -​

Sign-up format/Driver line-up:

Depending on interest, I'll do either one of two things. If interest is... cozy/small, then I'll simply take the first 16 people who sign up with a handful of the people who signed up late being assigned the role of "reserve driver."
But if interest is big (I will be posting this to the DotNet Forza forums once everything's ready) I'll be running a pre-race qualifier that will bring the list of sign ups down to a list of the fastest. The top 8 fastest of each class will get a drive and the rest will sit it out.

So I'll explain the "qualifier" here, in case we use it:
This series will feature a live, online, pre-season time trial qualifier to be announced soon. Since there are two classes there will be two qualifiers with each car. Once sign-ups open, the deadline to qualify for the series will begin. I'd say it'll probably be about 2 weeks before season start at the most. In order to qualify you'll need to contact me or Chris "DJFish" in order to submit a time because you can't just set a time whenever you want. You'll need to practice until you're ready to set your time in the presence of one of us, and you only get one shot at it.

Once the times are all collected and the deadline's up, we'll announce who made the top 8 of each field. Those drivers will be contacted and assessed for participation as we only want the most dedicated drivers in our series. Drivers that take the championship seriously and will be there every race.

After that we'll contact a few of the people just outside the top 8 of each class and ask them if they'd like to be listed as reserve drivers.

Then the first race will go on and after that it'll be a "first come first served" race each week.

You can choose to run the qualifier for both classes so when the qualifier ends, you'll be given the chance to choose which class you'd like to run in depending on which your fastest was or which you liked most, as long as you were fast enough to make the top 8.​

Cars:

There'll be two classes of 8 drivers each. I would do more classes but I want to keep it simple and have as many drivers per class as possible.
As far as what cars to use, is up to which we think is funnest. Right now I'm liking the Cup car instead of the Evora. And while there's also the option of using the Evora Endurance race car, it's simply too fast compared to the others. But as you can read in the Lotus Cup USA Rulebook, the Exige Cup car and 2-Eleven are actually pretty close in performance. The Cup car has slightly more power but weights slightly more than the 2-Eleven.

So, and I hope you all agree with me, I'm proposing that we increase the power on the 2-Eleven by 100

​

Races:

Rolling double-file starts, mostly 60 minute-long races with a couple 90 minute enduros thrown in, real life tracks, mandatory pit stops, etc.​

Qualifying:

Our race grids will be decided with a simple pre-race 20 minute "time attack" qualifying session. And we're probably going with collisions off in qualifying unless we find a better method.
​

Championship/points/teams:

We'll use the same points format as the Lotus Cup UK SuperSport division as they break down nicely :

• 1st - 20, 2nd - 18, 3rd - 16, 4th - 15, 5th - 14, 6th – 13, 7th - 12, 8th - 11, 9th – 10, 10th – 9,
  11th - 8, 12th – 7, 13th – 6, 14th – 5, 15th – 4, 16th – 3.

There will be two champions, the regular race champion and a time attack championship (points tables for each with mirrored scoring). With separate prizes and accolades for each. If someone, by chance, wins both in their class then they will become LCK, "Lotus Cup King."
A fun elite title that can only be held by one person.
There were will also be a teams' championship for those that wish to partner up as well. It's not mandatory to join team. Maximum of two drivers per team. Team points would just be the combined race points of each team member.​

Livery:

We don't want to go too crazy with the liveries. Be creative but not ridiculous. Common sense's a good general rule of thumb. But there will be a series mandatory number plate (replica of the Lotus Cup USA plate). Everyone will need one on both sides of the car as well as their plain number displayed on the bonnet.​

Racing etiquette and guidelines:

We'll be using the same, modified, GT Planet OnLine Racing rules posted on the Flyin' Miata Super Cup Live series. (See post #3)​

Penalty system:

Since we're going full simulation, damage is going to be a presence at each race no matter how hard we try to avoid it. So in order to keep things going a little more sanely, I'm going to adopt a penalty system from my GT5 Super GT series, "PURE JGTS."
Which works as follows:

You get infraction points for any offences listed here:

5 for warning
20 for cutting (Beyond warning)
25 for Rejoining track without regard to oncomming traffic, or wreckless driving
35 for aggressive driving/punting, Illegal blocking
45 for running another car off track (No dmg)
60 for causing avoidable damage
​

These infraction points will accumulate through out the season. At the end of the season drivers will have their total "IP'S". The IP score will be divided by the number of races you've completed at least 75% of. This number will then become your penalty percantage which means that that much percent of your total points score will be taken off as your punishment.
Say you scored 300 points by the end of the season and made 9 races with 140 infraction points.
140 / 9 = 16 (we will round up).
16% of 300 = 48 points taken off your total score to make a final score of 252.
Penalties will only be calculated at the end of the season. All race results will be final immediately after it's completed.

Differences to the real life Cup series formula​

We will draw a stronger line in terms of performance by giving the 2-Eleven more power and thus harder to race at a high level. This will also widen the speed gap between classes in order to make for a more consistent and exciting mixed-class environment.

There will be no yellow flags, pace cars, or full course cautions.

We'll be emulating every aspect of the real life series as closely as we can, car and spec wise withing the confines of Forza. Certain specifics in regulations won't be implementable. Other than that, the racing format and track schedule will be up to us!

Should be a lot of fun, I'm super excited.

Now for you to let me know what you all think. I want this series to be a good collaborative effort so it's as fun and accessible as can be by us racers.

So give me track ideas you'd like to see, rules, try out different specs on the cars and let me know what you think feels funnest, give me any and all suggestions/thoughts/accolades/criticisms, it'll all help. Thanks!

Cheers,
Eddie


P.S:
After giving it some good thought (staring at pictures lol) I've come to the conclusion that this series could work in two different ways just as well.

So I want good feedback on which of the following options you think is more viable:

Either we go with my
A.
initial idea, which was to only use the 2-Eleven and the Exige Cup car and spread them apart performance wise for a mini-Le Mans (LMP vs. GT) series type or
B.
just try and balance all of the Lotuses to full parity and run it as a multi-make, one class series?

 

[Wardez]

Reserved

 

[Wardez]

GT Planet OLR Rules adapted to this series -

01: General Rules:


A:
These rules are subject to change as there are constant updates/changes coming out for Forza Motorsport 4, it is your responsibility to update yourself on the changes.

B:
All drivers are expected to make themselves familiar with these online racing rules before entering any race or session. If you stumble across a rule that is unclear to you, make sure you fully understand that rule before you enter the race or session. You can post your questions to the dedicated race thread on the forum.

C:
You are expected to compete in a fair and honest manner. With fair and honest is meant according to these online racing rules, not according to your own interpretation of fair and honest.

D:
You are expected to drive responsibly in a way that’s not likely to ruin the racing enjoyment of your fellow drivers.

E:
You are expected not to submit to bad general behaviour under all circumstances.

F:
You are not allowed to use abusive language in any of the chat or voice facilities.

G:
You are expected to behave like sporting gentlemen at all times.

H:
The position of other drivers must always be respected.

I:
Aggressive driving is strictly prohibited.

J:
Cutting the chicanes or "shorting" the track at any point is strictly prohibited on all parts of the track, including the asphalt-areas in behind out-of track-lines. Track specific boundaries will be clarified in the Race Specifics section of any given event. Otherwise you will be heavily penalized with a standard 10 second penalty added to your total race time for cutting the track boundaries more than twice per lap over at least two laps.

K:
No careless driving. Always show respect for your fellow racers. Be careful. Show some patience. Understand the limitations of your car and yourself and drive accordingly. Driving online in a racing sim is NOT exactly the same as real life racing in every respect.

L:
Joke or offensive liveries are not to be tolerated. Immediate disqualification and banishment from the racing series will be applied to offending drivers.

M:
If you are found guilty of any of these rules, the behaviour will be evaluated and penalty assessed by the race organizers.


02: Event Participation:


A:
If for any reason you know prior to a race you’ll be unable to attend, please advise us as soon as possible. If you fail to advise of your intention to be absent in sufficient time before the start of any two consecutive events, you run the risk of being excluded from future events.

B:
As a general rule, if there isn’t a stated rule, then the rules as they are within a program will apply - both intentional and coincidental. I.e. the way a matter is handled by a racing program is the way that it will be interpreted by the race organizers.


04: Pit Etiquette:


A:
When you enter the pit-lane, you're not allowed to cross the white pit-entry-line. PE-1b: When you exit the pit-lane, you're not allowed to cross the white pit-exit-line. This rule is mostly for situations where a car is near when exiting or at tracks where you can gain time by cutting pit entrances. You will be handed a 10 second penalty for breaking this rule under circumstance.

B:
Cars on the race track have right-of-way over cars entering the race track from the pits. You have to take care not to interfere with other drivers on the track. Swerving in front of upcoming cars to defend your position is not allowed. You have to stay on the same side of the track as the pit exit until the first corner. Sustaining contact with a car on track when one is exiting the pits will incur a 15 second penalty to the offending driver.

C:
You're not allowed to overtake other drivers when entering the pitlane.

D:
Make sure you indicate in time that you plan on entering the pitlane to prevent any interference with other cars on the track.




05: Rules Governing Car Contact:


A:
Contact and collisions must be avoided at all costs. Sustained harassing contact twice in the same lap over at least two laps will be penalized by a standard 5 seconds.

B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited. "Punting" or sending a car off is a strict 15 second penalty, unless you wait for the driver to rejoin the track, then no penalties will be incurred.

C:
Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.



06: Running into the car ahead of you:


A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.

B:
In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, but can prevent an accident by steering into the dirt, grass or a wall, you are expected to do so.

C:
The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later.




07: Contact Concessions:


A:
If there’s contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.

B:
If the appropriate contact concession is carried out by the guilty driver then they may avoid or reduce the severity of any penalties that might otherwise apply.

C:
If the appropriate contact concession is not carried out by the guilty party then the usual penalties would apply.

D:
If you have to slow down to let the other player through, move out of the racing line first before you slow down. Coming to a full stop is not allowed, just continue at a lower pace until the other driver passes you again.




08: Corner Rights:


A:
When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.

B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

C:
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.

D:
If an ahead driver has clearly made an error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. However, the overtaking driver must still avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not justify a passing move. The ahead driver getting a bit out of shape at times doesn’t give you an automatic right to pass. You still have to judge if their error allows for a safe pass to take place.

E:
Drivers MUST make additional effort in driving due to the fact they can't always use side-view, and their perception of the other cars is thereby limited - extreme caution while maneuvering is required. "I didn't see you." is not an excuse if you collide with another driver when racing.




09: Rolling Start Guidelines:


A:
Additional caution and care must be taken when beginning a race with a rolling start. All of the above rules in regard to contact apply during the start and first corner of the race.

B:
Be Patient. Begin the race at a normal pace that will not cause you to run into cars in front of you. Don't begin by steering to one side and attempting to barge through the pack. Conversely, don't begin at a slow pace that will make you an obstruction or barrier to cars behind you.

C: Do not start full acceleration until the pole sitter has started the race. You are not allowed to pass any car until you've crossed the start point of the race. Jumping the start or overtaking a car before the start/finish line will immediately incur a standard 5 second penalty.

D:
Your goal on turn 1 should not be to get to the front, but rather to convert a double wide start field to a single file running order. Look ahead more than one car. Due to field compression, a compact field will run slower through the first few turns than a spread out one. Leave some extra space, but not too much. Drivers behind you won't be expecting sudden braking.

E:
When approaching the first corner, there will be times that you are punted off. In a crowded field, pinball is quite possible. A racer who runs into you may have been punted. Don't automatically assume malicious intent. The replay will be reviewed and penalties awarded based on scrutinized behavior.

F:
All of the rules in regard to contact concession apply if you knock a racer off track during the start of the race. If you cause a wreck, you are required to wait for all players who go off track as a result, regardless of whether you contacted them directly or not. If you are involved in a wreck which you did not cause, you are not required to wait




10: Defensive Driving:


A:
Leading cars have the right to choose their own line down a straight. They can change their racing line once while driving down a straight (Move from the outside line to the inside, or vice versa). As they approach the next corner, they can return to the racing line of their choice However, they're not allowed to change their line when the behind driver is directly behind and changes his line to try and make a pass. This is illegal blocking and a standard 5 second penalty will be added to the offending driver's time. Basic rule is that you can perform one off-line move per lap. If your movement causes an accident, you're responsible.

B:
Leading cars have the right to take their line of choice through corners. I.e. they may drive a defensive line around the inside of a corner to protect their position, thereby forcing an attacking driver to try to pass around the outside. This is not blocking and is part of normal racing etiquette. In fact, apart from the restrictions of rule 10:A, a leading driver can drive any line which they feel is the most inconvenient for any following car to try to pass them.

C:
Drivers that are about to get lapped have to make sure not to interfere with the lapping cars. Slow down on the straights on either side of the track or maintain the outside line during cornering. If for whatever reason you happen to be on the inside line when being overtaken, stay on the inside line until all drivers that were about to lap you have passed. You are not allowed to deliberately block the lapping cars.




11: Group Battle:


A:
When approaching a battle with 2 or more cars, be extra careful since those cars can change driving lines quickly when trying to defend/overtake. The cars in front will already be driving close, so finding a good overtaking spot is much harder. The same rules apply as when overtaking a single car.

B:
If you cause a crash in a group battle wait for all the effected drivers who were in front or/and driving next to you and let them get past. This doesn't include affected drivers who were driving behind you.

C:
When a crash occurs in a group battle, it’s vital to minimize risks for additional crashes. Slow down if needed, and try to drive on the clear side of the track. Overtaking is still allowed, but only under 1 or more of these conditions:

The risk of hitting other cars is minimal.
You overtake to avoid crashing into cars in front of you.
Slowing down would make you a mobile obstruction for other cars.

D:
When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you in order to free yourself out of that situation. Stay behind that driver or move sideways as soon as there's sufficient room to do so.




12: Initial Fault:


A:
If you make a significant driving error and another driver or drivers attempts to capitalize on it, they have the right to do so. Do not try to collide or retaliate because of your error.

For Example: If you go wide at a corner and a close behind car tries to take advantage of this by moving up the inside, you should leave room for them, whether or not they had overlap going into the corner. They must also leave you room. This rule doesn't apply to small errors that don't affect the speed, direction and outcome. This is a bit of a grey area and requires good judgment on both parts.

B:
You can always protest after the race if you think you’ve been wronged by notifying the race organizers via Private Message ONLY. Do not flood the forum with he said, she said business.





13: Recovering from an incident:


A:
It is the responsibility of the driver recovering from any incident to take all necessary care to not interfere with any cars still on the track and not part of the incident. A relevant incident may include, but not limited to -

Being spun out
Facing the wrong way,
Perpendicular to the track
Going abnormally slow for where you are on the track.
Getting penalized for any amount of time by the penalty system

If you are off the track then the rules on "Re-entering to the track after running off" apply.




14: Re-entering to the track after running off:


A:
It is the responsibility of the car returning to the track to ensure there are no collisions so that no other drivers have to maneuver or brake suddenly to allow you to resume racing. If there's a chance of a collision, wait and be patient as other drivers have the right of way.

B:
An off track incident includes:

Being stuck or pinned to a wall or railing.
More than two tires leaving the track at any one time
Any situation where the car may lose control and create cross traffic

C:
Do not reverse back onto the track unless it is necessary. If you are backing up away from a wall first look around you to avoid a collision and as the collision would be your fault.

D:
Re-enter the track parallel to the road, slowly and gently, and always with great care. This gives you the best opportunity to see what’s coming up the track behind you, and it also gives drivers coming up on you the best chance to orientate themselves to your situation.

 

[Crispy]

You have been at work Mr. Wardez! So your planning on the Lotus Two Eleven, and the Lotus Exige Cup Car? These two are very nice cars. I really like the Exige too so that's what I will probably race when the time comes to sign up.

Good luck with the series. I remember you guys talking about this last night in the lobby. Can't wait until this kicks off!

 

[t.o.]

Love how you have it setup. Masterpiece. Problem is, lol, I can't stand the cars.
I love the Lotus Esprit and a few others but those cars I just can't take it.

 

[Fezz_ST]

Would love to do this, but the times are no good for me

 

[Madkart]

I'm in

 

[Wardez]

In what? Hah, there's no series yet.

This discussion thread is only for working out the foundation of the series. So times, cars, and everything else in between is changeable.

Give me feedback!

I was trying to tune the 2-Eleven yesterday night and it just seems impossible to tune out the oversteer. Unless that's how it really is just the character of the car.

Also, while it seems that the LC USA series always uses rolling starts, it looks like the LC UK series uses standing starts at certain tracks. So which would you guys rather do?

Also, I tried out the Evora race car and it handles like a dream. Maybe we can do a mixed class with the Exige Cup (which also handles beautifully) vs. The Evora.

btw I just found out that the headquarters for LC USA is here in Vegas! ...might have to try and get something set up with them.

 

[t.o.]

btw I just found out that the headquarters for LC USA is here in Vegas! ...might have to try and get something set up with them.

Now THAT would be a good idea. I would go even further and ask them to actually fine tune the cars as they would behave in real life. Who knows, you might have a few of them racing in the series after while.

 

[Madkart]

Haha jk Wardez. Yeah I tuned the Lotus Elise and it has so much understeer. I'll be practicing with the Exige today though and I'll practice with the 2-11 as well. I'll see what I can do with the car. I think we should use rolling starts, they're awesome! And you should visit the LC USA Headquarters, and ask them what you're planning on doing. Maybe they can help with the series or something.

 

[Wardez]

Yeah try the Evora enduracer as well, and report times with their stock specs, that would be awesome!

I'd help out today but I'm gonna be busy most of the day leading up to work so I won't be able to.

This goes for anyone else that's interested in helping out as well 👍

 

[Crispy]

I'll be willing to help out with the series. Maybe we should do a mix between Rolling and Standing starts? Say on certain tracks we do rolling starts, and on others we do standing starts?

What are the plans for each of the cars? Will they be slightly tuned, or will they remain stock since they're both aimed at being track demons? Let me know which way I can help, I'd be happy to do it.

 

[Wardez]

I think it'll either be standing or rolling, I wouldn't want to mix it up. I've gotta look into why exactly the UK Cup does it sometimes.

Well the plan is to keep the Exige Cup in stock trim for now. It's going to be the slower class no matter what. Looking at the 2-Eleven stock, it's actually not too much faster than the Exige, so I'm thinking of getting it up to at least S class, but want to avoid R3.

The most important thing is finding a good tune for the 2-Eleven, as it's more than a handful to get around the track without spinning out.

So if we can't get that going, then we'll probably end up taking the Evora Enduracer instead and possibly boosting up the Exige a bit so it's not drastically behind.

 

[khalildc]

Wardez! Great to see that you're getting this series started. Thanks for all the hard work! It's much appreciated.

I've been out of commission altely on the sim scene. My Wheel Broke! Took it as a sign I needed an upgrade. The new one should be arriving soon.

Anyway, as far as this series is concerned, I think we should keep it as close to the regualtions as possible. Keep the two cars close in performance with different handling characteristics. That's porbably what makes the real series so compelling.

The 2-eleven is one of my favorite cars to drive in the game. I'm looking forward to the series!

 

[imported_steve30b]

iam interested in this, i watch the races live at local circuits in the uk, i have a few friends who take part in the cup. makes some spectacular racing..

 

[Crispy]

Would we add a customizable suspension to the Exige? I've noticed it has a pretty good bit of adjustability already.

I see what you mean by the Two/Eleven being crazy. I tried out a couple cars on the TGTT and corner entry was a little frightening. Braking into a corner seems a little scary stock, I'd be worried to see it tuned. When it isn't breaking loose it is quite planted. Direction change feels more like a go-kart rather than a car, so that's always good.

The Evora Endurance car is quite the car as well. It doesn't have as much agility as the Two/Eleven, but it's definitely planted. If you treat it nice, you'll bang out pretty quick laps. If you try and go extremely fast, you'll spin. This car is also the car that I'm learning to Heel and Toe in as well.

 

[laxmofo24]

Definatly interested in this series wardez. Keep me posted

 

[laxmofo24]

Also I ran the 2 eleven in forza 3 in a different race series. Had an s class tune but was insanely fun and extremely planted through every corner. If your interested I can see if I can dig up the tune