Full Clutch Integration

[Monooxide]

I think this would be probably the most important and best thing for them to integrate into the game. I fully functional clutch pedal. I also think this will give GT5 the edge over other racing games.

Also I would love to be able to feel like im driving a true car. Also being able to Heel-Toe downshift into corners would be phenomenal. Also this would give you drifters that Clutch Kick maneuver as well. I dont expect you guys to know what these are but eh...whatever.

How important or awesome would it be if they or any game integrated a Clutch into the GT5 steering wheel system or the game period.

 

[Canadian Speed]

Yeah, but it would suck if you didn't have the wheel though... It would mean an extra button to push... But as funny as it would sound... what about using the right analogue stick as a shifter?

 

[Dave A]

It's an extra button with the wheel, the DFP and almost every other wheel only have two pedals, the brake and accelerator. A clutch would still be hood, you wouldn't have to use it for gears, you'd have an auto clutch on gear change option or something but you'd still be able to use it, it comes in hand on Dragon range in EPR put it that way.

 

[Eric.]

It's an extra button with the wheel, the DFP and almost every other wheel only have two pedals, the brake and accelerator. A clutch would still be hood, you wouldn't have to use it for gears, you'd have an auto clutch on gear change option or something but you'd still be able to use it, it comes in hand on Dragon range in EPR put it that way.

Yeah, they could have "auto", "auto-clutch", and "manual" for transmission choices. I think they should make you only be able to use the paddles or the shifter depending on the car. I guess that would come into play for cars like the M5 and others with more than six gears.

 

[nurburgring]

I'll do it on the actual GT4 game! Just another pedal with a on/off switch connected to the controller that I modified for my DIY shiftstick.

I'll plug this on/off switch to the controller ground cable: if you don't push the pedal, there will be no ground connection between the controller and the PS2. So the only time you will able to upshift or downshift will be will the shift pedal down. I just have to find the ground wire in the controller.
And I will install an additional switch for the no-clutch-cars.
I will post pics later!

Sorry for my bad english, hope you understood what I meant...

 

[Dave A]

I get what your saying, it still won't act like a clutch though, because all that's doing is preventing you from changing gear unless the pedal is pressed down, a clutch disengages the engine, whereas with your idea, the engine will always be engaged.

 

[nismo4life]

they need to make this for Consoles...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Act-Labs-Pedals...ryZ74943QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Kent]

A clutch just couldn't work properly.

I mean, for starters, a clutch would just be one more thing to complain about on the side of not being realistic (and I'm getting sick of that already- without a clutch to add to the list).

Why do I say that?
First off, every single car would need to have its own clutch.
Then, ever single upgraded clutch would need it's own feel.

So right there you would have the demand for 4 clutches worth of data being added onto the disc (if you want to go with the realism approach).

Even if you made the upgraded clutches work for every car, it would still come out to 1 clutch for each car plus 3 other clutches (equalling out to about 725 clutches).

Or maybe you could use the same clutch for some cars (like the clutches on skyline's and evos of the same generation). That could knock the figure down ever further.

However, you would still need tons of extra space for data to represent these clutches.

Also, what about how these new clutches would react to power changes and drivetrain changes?

Then on top of that you have the real world application issues.

Not everyone drives with a wheel/shifter/pedal setup.

Having to work a clutch with the DS2 would ruin the game.

Frankly, if GT added a clutch, I would buy a Xbox360 and never play GT again ( I think).

However, there's no way of knowing for sure without trying it.

Hopefully I will never know for sure and they will never try it.

My opinion and my bottom line:
A clutch for GT is a horrible idea in application.
In theory it might be a good idea.

 

[Dave A]

If they did have a clutch feature, it wouldn't be a bad move, remember in evry game PC and non-PC that has a clutch featre, theres always an auto clutch on gear change option, so it wouldn't mean you'd have to use it. But at the same time it would prove usefull for getting started again after a spin, or to get a ick of power round a corner if your into drifting ect. I get what your saying Kent, but if theres an auto clutch on gear change option then it wouldn't affect a person like you, and would hardly affect a person like me, but some people would love it.

 

[nurburgring]

I get what your saying, it still won't act like a clutch though, because all that's doing is preventing you from changing gear unless the pedal is pressed down, a clutch disengages the engine, whereas with your idea, the engine will always be engaged.

Happy to know that you understood!

The solution to your objection is to put another switch that will able or enable the possibility of changing gears (with the same ground wiring than the clutch switch) on the acceleration pedal.
When you push the accelerator completely down, the switch will be pushed (you wont be able to change gears).
But if you put it half way (I have to find the perfect set-up), it will work. It will be like when you have the "5 or 10 seconds penalty". So the car wont be too debalanced (or unbalanced?) when you changing gears in the middle of a turn with a Cobra (and N2 tires), per example...

I think it will work, even if the engine is never disengaged, it will feel like it is! I'll let you know...

Oh, BTW, I easily found the ground wire. So no technical problems I'll meet to do the complete wiring... 👍

For some members like Kent who said: no way I will play with a "clutch" on a controller, my "solution" will be done on a cockpit...

And for the debate about progressivity of the clutch, why do you want to make it so sophisticate, you're not driving in a city, you're racing on a track...

 

[Kent]

So what, now all cars have the same clutch because they are on a track?

Regarding the auto clutch idea...
I suppose it could work if it was done the same way as a manual is done right now.

However, I'm just saying, if GT tried to do a clutch, I would move on.

It wouldn't take much to move me away from the GT series altoghter.

The clutch is one thing that certainly could.

I'm not getting a cockpit anytime soon and I certainly will not build one just for the sake of meeting the standard set by a new clutch system.

I'm just saying this...
If GT moves to a clutch and it does not work perfectly for the normal controller, I will buy an xbox instead (because my plan is to wait for GT5 before buying a PS3).

GT5 will be the deal breaker for PS3 to me.
If GT5 isn't what I feel it should be then I will be on xbox360.
If GT5 is close to what I'm hoping for, I will have a PS3. 👍

I hope it works out for the best (for everyone).

 

[Dave A]

No, I completely agree that every car has a different clutch with a different feel to it, ect. But having a clutch for people that still want it regardless of the fact that it won't feel like a real clutch is better than not having one at all if the game has an auto clutch option, because for people like you and me that would rather not use a clutch that doesn't feel close to the real thing or are stuck with a pad, still get to play the game as though it's not there if we want.

 

[Kent]

You're right L4S, but I wasn't addressing you.

That joking statement I made was directed to "nurburgring" for this...

And for the debate about progressivity of the clutch, why do you want to make it so sophisticate, you're not driving in a city, you're racing on a track

Which should be addressed by simply saying...
I'm not too worried about the realism of anything in GT but there certainly will be a group of people who are concerned with it.

Personally, I don't mind the idea of a clutch as long as it doesn't affect my game play.

If it changes the GT experience for me (in a bad way), I'm out.
Simple as that.

 

[Dave A]

Fair enough.

 

[SavageEvil]

Clutching won't be such a bad idea, but it's hella retarded on at DS2 style controller. Auto clutching is great, but only a few cars have those now, slowly more and more cars are getting them, but the majority of cars do not have one. But the additon of a clutch won't kill the game, as long as it's optional, if it's a demand, then i will be sorely pissed.

 

[Jedi2016]

I would only use a clutch if it was featured in a wheel/pedal unit, and it actually had a full H-shifter. Like my car.

But in the end, I probably wouldn't like it because the feel of the clutch would never be right.

And, it'd make me buy a whole new wheel.. I'm quite happy with my DFP, thank you, and I'll be quite happy to use it on the PS3 iterations of the game.

 

[Aiten]

No reason why it couldnt work if PD worked with other companies. Assume that the clutch could be set up for every car, it could have

Weight (1-10) - How hard you have to press the clutch
Biting point (1 - 20) - Where the clutch meets the pad
Agressiveness (1-20) - How easy/hard it is to stall the car

3 extra figures wouldnt be hard to add (after adding the code to support said hardware).


To be honest, im still waiting for a Gran Turismo seat. That tilts with motion and virbrates with revs and the track, so you feel like you are driving. A clutch with that seat, however expensive + GT is definatly worth it.

 

[Brock5000]

I remember discussing clutches in this old GT4 thread.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=68447

I've thought of how best to impliment a clutch in the game, probably the easiest way to introduce a clutch into the game without requiring everyone to buy new pedals or joysticks, or having to use an awkward button configuration, would be to have the clutch activated by holding down either gear shift button.

A quick tap would change gears as normal, but continuing to hold down would incrementally disengage the clutch until it's all the way in and no drive is being transmitted. The length of time it takes to put the clutch in would correspond to the clutch plate and other drivetrain mods you have done to the car.

Releasing it would effectively be dumping the clutch, which would allow us to drop big smokey burnouts without having to apply the brakes and stall the engine up. The severity of the clutch engagement should correspond to how long you've held it in (better yet if the R & L buttons were pressrue sensitve), as well as the power of the car.

To complete the simulation and make the cars behave realistically you'd also want the engine to react accordingly and potentially 'stall' if you ask too much , but that probably wouldn't be much fun.

 

[Jedi2016]

No reason why it couldnt work if PD worked with other companies. Assume that the clutch could be set up for every car, it could have

Weight (1-10) - How hard you have to press the clutch
Biting point (1 - 20) - Where the clutch meets the pad
Agressiveness (1-20) - How easy/hard it is to stall the car

3 extra figures wouldnt be hard to add (after adding the code to support said hardware).

The problem with that is that the pedals themselves would have to physically adjust to those parameters. Adjustable stiffness on the pedal, adjustable biting point, and adjustable feedback. Even if they made a pedal set that supported that, it would be prohibitavely expensive. And I don't see many people wanting to spend five or six hundred dollars on a new racing wheel for just one game.

Also bear in mind that a lot of high-end sports cars and most racing cars don't use a clutch.. they use sequential shifters, like the DFP already has.

Out of morbid curiosity, how many of the folks here drive a car with a stick shift? How many who do drive manual DON'T want a clutch in the game? And how many that drive automatics DO? I'm curious as to how "educated" these opinions are.. if someone's begging for a clutch feature who's never actually driven a stick shift.

 

[Dave A]

I drive manual but would only want to use a clutch if it was done accurately which in reality it won't be.

 

[Aggdaddy]

The problem with that is that the pedals themselves would have to physically adjust to those parameters. Adjustable stiffness on the pedal, adjustable biting point, and adjustable feedback. Even if they made a pedal set that supported that, it would be prohibitavely expensive. And I don't see many people wanting to spend five or six hundred dollars on a new racing wheel for just one game.

Also bear in mind that a lot of high-end sports cars and most racing cars don't use a clutch.. they use sequential shifters, like the DFP already has.

Out of morbid curiosity, how many of the folks here drive a car with a stick shift? How many who do drive manual DON'T want a clutch in the game? And how many that drive automatics DO? I'm curious as to how "educated" these opinions are.. if someone's begging for a clutch feature who's never actually driven a stick shift.

I drive a manual car in RL and I always choose a manual tranny in the racing games. But unless GT5 comes with a cockpit and clutch built in, there's no need for a clutch in the game.

 

[Aiten]

I have only driven manuals, I tried an automatic, but the feeling of not being in complete control get to me.

The clutch pedal would work, imagine a an air valve that wouldadjust automatically for the car being driven. The best description would be, an advanced de/inflating ballon (obv far more sturdy).

 

[Jedi2016]

I drive a manual car in RL and I always choose a manual tranny in the racing games. But unless GT5 comes with a cockpit and clutch built in, there's no need for a clutch in the game.

Same here. In the olden days, I used to drive all racing games in automatic. Then one day on a whim I flipped on manual in GT3. Haven't looked back since.

And, the next time I bought a car in real life, I was very specific with the salesman.. "I want a manual, period." When my parents asked me why I chose a manual, I gave them the "textbook" answers.. it's cheaper, better mileage, etc. But in reality, I wanted it because it's just more fun to drive.

I agree about the clutch thing in-game, too. I wouldn't use it unless it was done right. Which I don't think is going to happen anytime soon. And, as I mentioned earlier, I'm quite happy with my DFP, so I'll probably be sticking with that until it dies. Especially since it's USB.. that means it'll work with PS3 (and GT5) right out of the box.

 

[wonderpill]

play enthusia, its cheap now... see if you like the clutch after you play it... it is more of a passive clutch than an active clutch, meaning it is not necessary to use it to shift, but does help on take off an bogging... over all, enthusia integrates this, and is the first game i have played since Race Drivin' to attempt it and pull it off...

in other words, Race Drivin' is the most technical racing game i have ever played... no but the most ideas that gt5 should integrate... i would love to have to restart the car after stalling out, by putting it in N and then having to turn the key with the clutch depressed, then slapping it into first and easing off the clutch... why oh why can't this be in the dang game... to much programming, thats why, and way too many sound recordings to sample, thats why... unless you dont' mind only haveing 20 or 30 cars, orwaiting longer than release date like all of the sequels... i can remember the wait on every one, gt2, gt2000 (ie. gt3 in the states), and the dang gt4 seemed like an extra year of development. they might however make this a separate mode, with say ten cars, more than likely the newest available cars, more than likely the mustang gt, the new R35, Pontiac solstice, and probably two or three other surprises, my hopeful would be either the new camaro or the new challenger, but time will tell what PD feels like doing.

I for one am down with the clutch, and have been since Race Drivin'

and if you are lookin for Race Drivin', you can pick up Midway arcade 3, and if you got the extra $20, go for enthusia just because its cars, and you can drive a Chevy Astro van.