Future of racing games: "going electric".

[Niels]

So,

I just had a thought yesterday. The car-world is preparing and already executing a full change into electric-powered cars. Maybe hydrogen-fuel later on as well.

And the racing world doesn't want to be left behind either, apparently. So they want to make the transition very much in time as well. You can see it in F1, with them already having gone hybrid.

However, in real racing I'm having doubts about this transition. I think petrol-engines just have a sort of... spectaculair feel to them. Just the noise, basically. I think it should be cradled, if you know what I mean. It should be...
Sure, there can start new series as well. But I think... there is something about petrol-powered cars that just can't be replaced, and if you ask me: shouldn't be!
And even if all the petrol runs out. And gets used up. I think there should be a small industry artificially (re)creating this fuel just to be used in racing series. Maybe I can't really explain it well enough what my thoughts are about this.

But I was thinking this will inevitably change the games as well!

What do you think the impact is going to be when we've transitioned fully from maybe petrol-powered supercars to electric supercars only?

I remember a review about a new Lotus electric car that's going to touch 2000bhp. It wasn't ready yet but they had a concept already working with 1600bhp, I believe. And the guy that was driving it, first seemed impressed. But then really quickly "got used" to the speed, and was actually looking forward to having that bit of extra bhp on top of the 1600 already present. Because it was getting boring already, it seemed.

I blame that on the lack of sound. You just don't have the same experience, not even close.
In petrol-powered cars though, you can get a reasonable amount of bhp to start out with perhaps. But then everything that gets added, increasingly adds enormously to the drama inside. Like you can be impressed by maybe 700 bhp. But then 800 or 900 is going to be so much more spectacular, in terms of sound and in terms of experience. Getting to 1000bhp or more is getting seriously insane.

But electric powered cars like that seem to get boring really quickly.

And all the tuning involved for example as well! It could be that especially electric cars or maybe even hydrogen ones as well... don't have the same "challenges". It's apparently really straightforward, from what I've understood. No gears even. Just direct power. And there is not much spectacle underneath the hood that... can make "the" difference.

This could be the last generation of racing games that still have the main focus on petrol. What would that mean to you?

 

[CoopR_26]

I think racing games will always have petrol powered cars, it's not something they'd drop because the world moves on, its part of the history of racing and cars. As in real life, I personally don't believe that fulle EV's are the future of cars. I think that hybrids make a lot more sense and are more practical for the every day person. EV's are also still super expensive to purchase. Hybrids are the best of both worlds, just get a small engine and add an electric motor to that, that can definitely be very exciting. The driving experience will stay pretty much the same as with a gas powered car, but you get the pro's of electrical power. I also think that for 'normal' people, non car people, its a lot more attractive to get a hybrid instead of a fully EV. With a hybrid you can get to work and back on electrical power alone, use fuel for longer drives or overtaking. Fuel economy is amazing on those cars and a lot of them have those recharging braking system, that when you brake the battery of the electric motor charges. No need for waiting until the cars fully charged, just use the electric mode for small drives, use the gas engine for longer ones and charge it over night, if thats even necessary.

A pretty good example of this is the new Porsche Panamera 4 E-Hybrid. That can drice on fully electric modes for a decent distance, but when you want, or accelerate hard, use the big V8. Those cars are the future, full EV's are not.

 

[Daz555]

Top class motorsports like F1 will never go fully electric. They know the internal combustion engine is core to the ethos of the sport.

 

[MrCrynox]

Personally I think it's the end of Motorsport. I'm know I'm being dramatic but if there's no sound, no feeling then there's no passion and probably no interest. As each series switches I will in turn switch off. A good example of how boring the future is going to be is watch any Motorsport right now and then mute the sound. Boring and unwatchable imo.

WRX is going full electric next year, it will be interesting to see what happens to the spectators and viewing figures. The commentators gush watching and listening to them warming up going through their launch control procedures, let's see how they feel about no sound, no anti lag, no backfires or flames. So sad.

And if car games follow then no new games for me!

 

[VXR]

I think going forward, fuel is becoming so expensive that our only recourse as petrol heads is to use them in games and reminisce about the sounds.

I do hope somebody licenses the sound data owned by a T10 or PD etc that could then be downloaded to an EV and played back through the speakers whilst you drive. Best of both worlds.

 

[Niels]

Personally I think it's the end of Motorsport. I'm know I'm being dramatic but if there's no sound, no feeling then there's no passion and probably no interest. As each series switches I will in turn switch off. A good example of how boring the future is going to be is watch any Motorsport right now and then mute the sound. Boring and unwatchable imo.

WRX is going full electric next year, it will be interesting to see what happens to the spectators and viewing figures. The commentators gush watching and listening to them warming up going through their launch control procedures, let's see how they feel about no sound, no anti lag, no backfires or flames. So sad.

And if car games follow then no new games for me!

Yeah seriously, I remember a visit I did at Spa with formula 1 there. We were in the car, I believe actually in traffic as well cause of how popular it still was. Trying to reach the parking area's we could hear the engine sounds echoing through the valleys. That was so amazing. There was something going on inside those woods lol, and you know it's just a race. But it's just a legendary sound man.

IMO right now they seem to be making the mistake that "they have to keep up, and stay up to date", etc. To keep up with "developments", and "innovation" and all of that. Maybe because of unrelated things as well like the internet; there's a belief that you should try very hard to keep up with "times" otherwise you'll be doomed.

I think that is a misconception.
There's no replacing the combustion engine racing days, whatsoever. And we either deny it, or keep it alive.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

Ultimately it will be based on what makes the companies the most money. Games will only go electric if that's what the consumers want to buy.

Spoiler

I predict 20 years before a game has paid microtransactions for engine sounds.

 

[Daz555]

Personally I think it's the end of Motorsport.

Which is exactly why it won't be the end of motorsport. The sports will learn what they need to keep their sports alive and if that means internal combustion engines (biofuels, hydrogen - whatever) then that is what will happen.

WRX is struggling because hardly anyone watches it anyway so they are hoping to kick start something by going all electric. It might work, who knows?

 

[VBR]

I think petrol-engines just have a sort of... spectaculair feel to them. Just the noise, basically...You just don't have the same experience, not even close.

Personally I think it's the end of Motorsport. I'm know I'm being dramatic but if there's no sound, no feeling then there's no passion and probably no interest. As each series switches I will in turn switch off. A good example of how boring the future is going to be is watch any Motorsport right now and then mute the sound. Boring and unwatchable imo.

I went off F1 completely in 2014 when they changed the engines, even them ones didn't do it for me. And, I agree that watching electric cars race is boring AF!

 

[Scaff]

I think racing games will always have petrol powered cars, it's not something they'd drop because the world moves on, its part of the history of racing and cars. As in real life, I personally don't believe that fulle EV's are the future of cars. I think that hybrids make a lot more sense and are more practical for the every day person. EV's are also still super expensive to purchase. Hybrids are the best of both worlds, just get a small engine and add an electric motor to that, that can definitely be very exciting. The driving experience will stay pretty much the same as with a gas powered car, but you get the pro's of electrical power. I also think that for 'normal' people, non car people, its a lot more attractive to get a hybrid instead of a fully EV. With a hybrid you can get to work and back on electrical power alone, use fuel for longer drives or overtaking. Fuel economy is amazing on those cars and a lot of them have those recharging braking system, that when you brake the battery of the electric motor charges. No need for waiting until the cars fully charged, just use the electric mode for small drives, use the gas engine for longer ones and charge it over night, if thats even necessary.

A pretty good example of this is the new Porsche Panamera 4 E-Hybrid. That can drice on fully electric modes for a decent distance, but when you want, or accelerate hard, use the big V8. Those cars are the future, full EV's are not.

A little off topic, but in regard to the future of private road cars, you are way off base.

EV's a 100% the mainstream future, and that not just from an environmental standpoint, but from a legislative one (buying any ICE or hybrid from 203 will not be possible in the vast majority of markets), and I can assure you from personal experience hybrids are not the future, not at all, they are a compromise that when you live with one just doesn't add up (two engines/motors and two power storage sources adds an absurd amount of weight).

ICE Hydrogen conversions and Synthetic fuels will end up as alternatives for HGV's, plant equipment, and older cars, but have emission issues themselves and in the case of hydrogen (if you want to get close to zero emissions) then performance issues as well.

Scales of economy is already driving down the costs of EV's and they are, right now, in a lot of markets the main growth area for car sales.

What that means for Motorsport is, at present, unclear. EVs have not caught on in terms of racing at the pace the series organisers wanted. Hybrid systems will work for a while (WRC and BTCC start with that tech from 2022), but will not last long term. Hydrogen as a Fuel Cell vehicle will give you the same issues as EV's (a point often lost on hydrogen fans - a fuel cell car still has electric motors and batteries and has the same issue with sound), ICE Hydrogen conversions need to run so lean as to murder performance (circa 50% loss) to be close to zero emissions (so not doing so negates a lot of the reason for using it), and synthetic fuels can be carbon offset, but that doesn't change the fact they still kick out a lot of other emissions. Oh and both hydrogen and synthetic fuels are expensive to produce and transport, which if used pushes the cost of motorsport higher again.

 

[FerrariF1GT]

Like it or not, EVs will be the future for both production cars and motorsport, thus developers will advertise their games highlighting those vehicles. We should start letting go about how we feel about how vehicles sound and focus more about sustainabilty as our fossil fuel reserves diminish.

Games have always been an outlet for preserving the cars of the past, and I think it will stay that way.

I also think esports are going to be a major player in the future of racing games. To be very optimistic, I think that we might see real manufacturers produce cars that are exclusive to the virtual world for the purpose of an esports series in the coming years. Whether or not those cars would be based on ICEs is up to your imagination right now.

 

[lancia delta hf]

Personally I think it's the end of Motorsport. I'm know I'm being dramatic but if there's no sound, no feeling then there's no passion and probably no interest. As each series switches I will in turn switch off. A good example of how boring the future is going to be is watch any Motorsport right now and then mute the sound. Boring and unwatchable imo.

WRX is going full electric next year, it will be interesting to see what happens to the spectators and viewing figures. The commentators gush watching and listening to them warming up going through their launch control procedures, let's see how they feel about no sound, no anti lag, no backfires or flames. So sad.

And if car games follow then no new games for me!

Not dramatic at all, I'd say it's a spot on prediction. I feel the same way.

 

[Wolfe]

This could be the last generation of racing games that still have the main focus on petrol. What would that mean to you?

That developers have cemented an astoundingly narrow perspective on cars and how videogames enable us to enjoy them. I can imagine AAA games moving in that direction because AAAs are daft like that, and they do seem to be slowly discarding history (apart from GT/Forza). But it doesn't make sense. If you can pick up a videogame and play as a cowboy, a knight, assassins across the centuries, a detective or mafia member in the mid 20th Century, a soldier in Vietnam, an ex-con in 1980s Miami, etc. etc. etc...there ought to be games with cars that aren't (all) new EVs. Beyond just cars, I think there should be more "period" games like the above in the driving/racing genre.

It is the responsibility of driving/racing game devs to preserve automotive history while we can, because we can, and it's a responsibility I want to take on myself. Such cars and games can co-exist with EVs and trendy games focusing on EVs.

 

[05XR8]

I asked a similar question about EVs in GT7. Kaz wants to educate people that don’t know much about car culture. Some may grow up only knowing about current hybrids and EVs. Also, some people that aren’t sold on hybrids and EVs. How can PD make these cars appeal to doubters?

There are already racing series for EVs: FormulaE, Off-road E series and eTCR. We also see from some road car hyper EVs, how much performance those cars pack. Sure, it’s well to catalogue ICE cars, but also be educated about how car culture is changing. If the new generation aren’t enthusiastic about any automobile, it’d be lost anyway.

 

[Samus]

Top class motorsports like F1 will never go fully electric. They know the internal combustion engine is core to the ethos of the sport.

Never is such a long time. F1 will go electric as soon as the technology exists to keep them as the pinnacle of motorsport in terms of laptime. We're a long way off now, but in 30, 40 years? It will happen, even if not in our lifetime.

 

[Niels]

Well I have one more depressing thought... that might become a factor uhm... because it already is.

Realistically, you can already ask yourself what the point is of buying a supercar if you're limited to drive them up to a little more than 60mph. But yeah it still has the thrill factor that is then going to disappear. Which was probably the only thing left (making huge noise with reving up your engines at the traffic lights and just doing short sprints). You can then ask yourself what is still the point of wanting to be "fast", if it's nowhere near actually practical. And when the thrill is gone as well?

And then a second thing actually: AI driving.

But things that become rare in some way... sometimes only gain in popularity. And that could happen with combustion engines as well. Or I hope.
I think people won't entirely forget about them.

 

[tankuroded]

I also think esports are going to be a major player in the future of racing games. To be very optimistic, I think that we might see real manufacturers produce cars that are exclusive to the virtual world for the purpose of an esports series in the coming years. Whether or not those cars would be based on ICEs is up to your imagination right now.

This is what the Vision GT program kinda does, by the way...

 

[FerrariF1GT]

This is what the Vision GT program kinda does, by the way...

Why didn’t I think of that 🤣

 

[Grand Prix]

Not many people have the privilege or opportunities to fly WW2 propeller planes in real life, yet these machines are still highly popular, even among younger generations that were born more than half a century after they were made. Modern people can enjoy their digital representatives in flight sims and games like War Thunder... and why listen to just one engine when you can have two of them?

I wouldn't be concerned. A few progressive developers will try to push electrics on us, but the internal combustion engined car has made far too broad and massive an impact on the world to be forgotten about in a few decades. People will remember them for at least as long as things like swords have been iconic imagery. People in the far future might say things like this: "People used to drive their own vehicles that were powered by FIRE? That's awesome!"

 

[TypeRDC5]

I work in the motor trade for VW and I can tell you electric is not the future, the infrastructure is not there and it was a panic reaction to the diesel emissions scandal.

Here is hoping synthetic fuels bring us back to v8's/v10's and pure sound in motorsport.

Sorry... back on topic ice engines will live on for years in games, as for the licensed games this could be an issue as already is with f1 games, I don't play them because even though you are doing 210mph it feels dull as the engine sounds are based on the current hybrid quiet engines, if it were all electric it would put a lot of people off.

 

[05XR8]

I work in the motor trade for VW and I can tell you electric is not the future, the infrastructure is not there and it was a panic reaction to the diesel emissions scandal.

Here is hoping synthetic fuels bring us back to v8's/v10's and pure sound in motorsport.

Sorry... back on topic ice engines will live on for years in games, as for the licensed games this could be an issue as already is with f1 games, I don't play them because even though you are doing 210mph it feels dull as the engine sounds are based on the current hybrid quiet engines, if it were all electric it would put a lot of people off.

That's why I mentioned game developers need to find ways to make the EV cars exciting in any one game.
The record breaking VW EV is in PC3. Yeah, it's fast, but the sensation of building speed, isn't unlike the throttle of a jet or boat or heck, a go-kart(was going to say power wheels, but nah ).

How can that be made fun in a game? For me, I "manually" select gears, with my controllers. I prefer to "feel" the virtual inertia, rise, fall and hesitation of the transmission. Automatic gear users, would probably be more used to an in-game EV.

I'll admit, I did like the BMW i3, in GT Sport, when I used to play. Also helped I could lower it, change the wheels and change the color/create a livery.
There needs to be a bit more: hyper milling(miling), racing versus other brands of EVs. Some custom EVs, like the Ford Mach E 1400hp drift car.
Whatever can be done to an ICE car, should be done to an EV. Upgrade electric motors, chips, wiring loom or whatever. Customisation could help the transition for players.

 

[imported_Tuned]

I some times think about this subject, and it makes me sad that the world is hellbent on going electric whilst artificially raising prices on oil (that is a different conversation), and not actually being ready to go full electric because the infrastructure is not there. As TypeRDC5 said, the whole electric craze is a panic mode from the dieselgate scandal.

Imo the future is also hybrid and synthetic fuels, there are way too many ICE cars and petrol stations in the world to be suddenly abandoned. So if you ask me, motorsport will burn fuel, be it from oil, synthetic or hydrogen for at least another couple of decades if not half a century. After all 50% of the experience in a car is sound, and I don't care how much HP a Tesla Model S Plaid or Rimac Nevera have, or how fast they hit 100km/h, they will never match a flat 6, NA V8, V10, V12... An ICE engine is a car's heart, take that out and you are left with a laptop on wheels.

Don't get me wrong, I like electric vehicles, for daily use, but I can't stand driving them in racing games, they are way to lifeless. But I might as well be a old man yelling at the cloud, it looks like younger generations have no interest in owning a car, due to costs, and with car sharing being on the rise, there is no reason to own a car if you live in the city. So we will see where all this electric craze takes us (back into the dark ages 😜).

 

[sirjim73]

That's why I mentioned game developers need to find ways to make the EV cars exciting in any one game.
The record breaking VW EV is in PC3. Yeah, it's fast, but the sensation of building speed, isn't unlike the throttle of a jet or boat or heck, a go-kart(was going to say power wheels, but nah ).

How can that be made fun in a game? For me, I "manually" select gears, with my controllers. I prefer to "feel" the virtual inertia, rise, fall and hesitation of the transmission. Automatic gear users, would probably be more used to an in-game EV.

I'll admit, I did like the BMW i3, in GT Sport, when I used to play. Also helped I could lower it, change the wheels and change the color/create a livery.
There needs to be a bit more: hyper milling(miling), racing versus other brands of EVs. Some custom EVs, like the Ford Mach E 1400hp drift car.
Whatever can be done to an ICE car, should be done to an EV. Upgrade electric motors, chips, wiring loom or whatever. Customisation could help the transition for players.

Customisation would be a good idea actually 👍
Maybe you could upgrade from a plug to a multi plug 😂

 

[Niels]

Not many people have the privilege or opportunities to fly WW2 propeller planes in real life, yet these machines are still highly popular, even among younger generations that were born more than half a century after they were made. Modern people can enjoy their digital representatives in flight sims and games like War Thunder... and why listen to just one engine when you can have two of them?

I wouldn't be concerned. A few progressive developers will try to push electrics on us, but the internal combustion engined car has made far too broad and massive an impact on the world to be forgotten about in a few decades. People will remember them for at least as long as things like swords have been iconic imagery. People in the far future might say things like this: "People used to drive their own vehicles that were powered by FIRE? That's awesome!"

Swords!

That's the best example!

And not the only one either when you consider bow and arrows and maybe also axes or something.

 

[Daz555]

Never is such a long time. F1 will go electric as soon as the technology exists to keep them as the pinnacle of motorsport in terms of laptime. We're a long way off now, but in 30, 40 years? It will happen, even if not in our lifetime.

Silent F1? We have no idea but my guess is that will never happen. I think it is more likely they go to a standard engine from a single specialist manufacturer far in the future as the traditional engine makers will have no interest in ICE any longer.

It's only a guess though. We will have to wait and see.

 

[05XR8]

Silent F1? We have no idea but my guess is that will never happen. I think it is more likely they go to a standard engine from a single specialist manufacturer far in the future as the traditional engine makers will have no interest in ICE any longer.

It's only a guess though. We will have to wait and see.

Look at FormulaE, but with slicks, instead of grooved tyres. How about more powerful motors and maybe a way to safely swap batteries or some components? Money and engineering. They’ll figure it out.

Anyway, how many of us have played with Match Box and Hot Wheels cars without engine sounds coming from those models. How about slot cars and electric R/Cs. It’s the same thing.

 

[Samus]

Silent F1? We have no idea but my guess is that will never happen. I think it is more likely they go to a standard engine from a single specialist manufacturer far in the future as the traditional engine makers will have no interest in ICE any longer.

It's only a guess though. We will have to wait and see.

I'm sure in the time they take to get electric power to match current hybrid performance they will come up with a way to make it sound nice. We're not talking about 3/4 years, but decades.

 

[Scaff]

I work in the motor trade for VW and I can tell you electric is not the future, the infrastructure is not there and it was a panic reaction to the diesel emissions scandal.

I've been worrking in the motor industry for over twenty years, and that's simply not true, either of your points.

 

[FrankieStail]

I've been worrying in the motor industry for over twenty years, and that's simply not true, either of your points.

20 years is a lot of worrying, I’d look for a change of career

 

[Scaff]

20 years is a lot of worrying, I’d look for a change of career

It's not been easy