General questions about creating a setup

[huhu]

Good day everyone,

Having played a lot GT1 and GT2 on the ps1, i jumped over the third and forth installment, just to be back on gt5 and 6. I have also played a lot LFS, RBR, and rfactor but never really had the time nor the method to really start making setups for my driving style.

ihave some questions, and hope that a charitable soul will hop onto my topic and answer it.

on gt6, i really like the grip on the comfort tyres (but prefer the sound of the sport ones), and play also only on abs 0. so my questions are :

1) using only comfort, which ride height is good ? i suppose that with a low ride(and stiffer springs), the weight transfer would be too quick for those tyres and they'll certainly loose traction. So i.e, would it be 100-100 minimum with a soft spring stiffness for a good suspension travel ?

2) i know taht for creating setups, you must be consistent on the track (braking points, turn in, etc). i took tsukuba to begin with (few corners), and began being consistent (80% attack and time diff : +/- 0.100 sec). must i tweak the lsd first and then go to the suspension ? and for the latter , i must focus on which parameter (springs, dampers , arb's) for which corner part ? (entry, mid, and exit). i know that im confusing with such intriquate questions, but would someone just give me a brief and simple guideline to begin with ? must i seek for the maximum grip available, and then tweak it to fit my driving style ?

3) does camber still bugged ? 0/0 is the optimal setting ?

4) how do i know that my suspension is bottoming out ? will my car behave erratically ? will i be able to see it on the tire indicators ?

i thank in advance everyone that will answer me and i apologize for my bad english as im not a native

Good day to everyone !

 

[DaBomm4]

Have you taken a look through some of the tuning guides out there? @DolHaus has a really good General Tuning Guide that is at the top of this forum, and @Motor City Hami has a very good one in his garage Here.

1) When tuning on comfort tires, decreasing the ride height and stiffening the springs a little bit from stock can help the car feel better, but more extreme changes, like you said, would go past what the tire can handle. A general minimum ride height for cars depends on the car though.

2) What you tune first doesn't matter but I feel that getting the LSD tuned first helps the rest of the tuning a little easier. The suspension settings all effect the car through the whole corner, but changing things part by part will help.

3) Yes, the camber is still broken so 0/0 is optimal.

4) This one I am not sure on but I believe that when the car bottoms out, the car will behave differently, more erratic, but the tires might not show enough to know the cause.

Does this help?

 

[huhu]

DaBomm4, this does indeed helps a lot u answered all my questions and its clearer for me now . I did have a look on the first guide (which is very helpful) but not the second one (going in asap)

i thank you for taking the time

and for the last question, i took an s2000 on the green hell with minimum height and soft springs and ... the driving was controllable even on fuchsrohre and the uphill section just before adenauer forst and max speed :s

 

[DaBomm4]

I think this is a good example of bottoming out ride height. @Motor City Hami tuned an S2000 here and then we got a seasonal at Matterhorn and he retuned it with a higher ride height here.

And I'm glad to help where I can.

 

[DolHaus]

@DaBomm4 has covered most of it pretty well and pointed you in the right direction for finding answers.

Bottoming out generally manifests itself as lateral (side to side) bouncing. Its easiest to spot in the bumper camera view.
If you enter a medium/high speed corner where you are putting a lot of load on the springs (last corner at tsukuba for instance), the car will lean to the outside of the bend. What you are looking for is the car leaning and then bouncing back constantly, this happens because the springs are reaching their limit and hitting the bump stop. When this happens it means the suspension can no longer absorb bumps and all the force is transferred to the tyres and through the car making it unstable. Imagine riding a bicycle with no suspension down a bumpy path and think about how hard that would be to control.

 

[DaBomm4]

@DaBomm4 has covered most of it pretty well and pointed you in the right direction for finding answers.

Bottoming out generally manifests itself as lateral (side to side) bouncing. Its easiest to spot in the bumper camera view.
If you enter a medium/high speed corner where you are putting a lot of load on the springs (last corner at tsukuba for instance), the car will lean to the outside of the bend. What you are looking for is the car leaning and then bouncing back constantly, this happens because the springs are reaching their limit and hitting the bump stop. When this happens it means the suspension can no longer absorb bumps and all the force is transferred to the tyres and through the car making it unstable. Imagine riding a bicycle with no suspension down a bumpy path and think about how hard that would be to control.

Just wondering, could that also be caused by too stiff ARB settings?

 

[huhu]

DolHaus thank you. For the bottoming question it's clearer . ill seek for that body roll bounce (as i drive only on the bumper cam since first gt) and know that my supension is not doing its job. ill begin with a setup that will be sure to bottom and try to spot it on the corner u talked about thanks again !

but i miss the tyre load indicator of gt5 (just for the bottoming of the susp. ) as i did not understand how it would represent the limit of grip as the white circle never went outside the grey circle even if i locked the tyres just after hard braking and trail braking onto a corner)

 

[DolHaus]

Just wondering, could that also be caused by too stiff ARB settings?

Not so much, overly stiff ARBs tend to make the car feel solid and unresponsive. Their job is to handle the lateral transfer of weight, if they're too soft the car will wobble from side to side and let the weight transfer continue unchecked, if they're too stiff the weight transfer will happen dramatically and put extra lateral load on the tyres.
This will be identifiable by a chittering sound coming from the tyres as they slip sideways during cornering in the same way you'd get with overly stiff suspension.

 

[huhu]

DolHaus , will the erratic bounces for bottoming during a mid/high speed corner be accompagned by tyre squeal that is "hopping" too ? i mean i had it once i was trying to spot that on deep forest, and it was like 3 or 4 "hops" of tyre screetch every second during corner .

 

[DaBomm4]

Not so much, overly stiff ARBs tend to make the car feel solid and unresponsive. Their job is to handle the lateral transfer of weight, if they're too soft the car will wobble from side to side and let the weight transfer continue unchecked, if they're too stiff the weight transfer will happen dramatically and put extra lateral load on the tyres.
This will be identifiable by a chittering sound coming from the tyres as they slip sideways during cornering in the same way you'd get with overly stiff suspension.

Thanks, it makes sense.

 

[huhu]

DolHaus, or i suppose that hopping in sound is just from too stiff susp ?

 

[DolHaus]

DolHaus , will the erratic bounces for bottoming during a mid/high speed corner be accompagned by tyre squeal that is "hopping" too ? i mean i had it once i was trying to spot that on deep forest, and it was like 3 or 4 "hops" of tyre screetch every second during corner .

It can be depending on how fast you are going, basically what you are looking for is a sudden change in how the suspension is performing,
It will start off by leaning onto the outside wheel as normal but will reach a point where the spring can no longer compress and becomes like a solid rod. At this point the car will start behaving erratically and either lose grip completely and slide, or the suspension will suddenly recoil and appear to bounce throwing the weight in random directions.

The suspension being to stiff for the tyre is generally easiest to hear and feel, when you turn into a corner you will hear a chit-chit-chit-chit sound from the tyres constantly and the car will understeer wide because the suspension isn't dealing with the forces properly. The tyres are basically getting overwhelmed before the suspension can react and transfer the energy. Its all about managing the forces involved, softer tyres can handle more force before letting go.

 

[huhu]

Yup . Thank you the two of us . It's clearer for me now , and it's a good starting point for me to feel how the suspension reacts and tweaking it.