General questions, beginner stuff.

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So Ive been into photography for long enough now to understand what the aperture, shutter speed, ISO do and I understand how to get a good exposure, but there is some stuff that I am unclear about.

For purpose of discussion I will be using a Nikon D40 with the 18-55mm kit lens in manual mode only. Lets say that you are outside with just a camera, and you want to take a picture of a sunset. Do you know exactly where to set the camera say f8 at 1/250th etc., or how do you judge your starting point for aperture and shutter speed? Do you guess and check, or is there a method? I know there is some math involved when you get into it, could someone please explain?

Also, could you give me a better explaination of all of the numbers on the lens and what exactly they mean. Or maybe a website with all of this stuff on it.

Thanks in advance guys 👍
 
I think your best bet to get an idea of a starting point is to use the light meter. The thing is, there are a few ways to use the light meter. The light meter can measure light in three ways, depending on what you want to meter and what you're shooting. They are Full-Frame, Center-Weighted, and Spot.
Full-Frame measures the amount of light in all (100%) of the frame and meters accordingly (the icon looks like a frame filled in).
Center-Weighted measures about 75% of the frame using the middle of the frame (the icon looks like a frame with a tiny dot in the middle and a circle around it).
Spot measures only about 2.5% of the frame but it's extremely useful in that it measures the light on whichever focus point you are actively focusing on (icon looks like a tiny spot on the frame).
I would use a combination of full-frame and spot metering. Meter with the full-frame, maybe take a shot and switch it over to spot metering and measure the sun; and then the outside of the sun and make a decision from there. Or you could always just ignore changing everything around; set it to full-frame metering, shoot, check LCD/histogram and adjust accordingly (what I do mainly).

The numbers on the lenses indicate their focal range, and zoom range. It's easier just to link to a site so here you go, http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-lenses.htm
http://www.hypergurl.com/blog/photography/numbers-on-lens.html
 
Ok, cool. Great info 👍

Another question is, I have been shooting 35mm film with an old Pentax SLR. I was wondering how big I can blow up the shots before they get distorted, or how I can know. I know that D-SLRS go by megapixels for resolution but I dont know about 35mm.
 
If you are doing your own developing. The process can be pretty simple as far as enlarging.
Depending on the quality of your enlarger, work the pic up in size and observe carefully until the detail of some hard focal point (say a nose, or a glasses frame) starts to distort and just start backing down. Then develop as normal.

When I was doing b & w back in the late '70's, early 80's we also had a trick for getting the proper exposure on the paper.
We would use a small amout of time on the paper, and uncover one sheet of photo paper, approx. 1 inch at a time usually adding in 5 sec increments.
Then we would check the photo with the multiple exposures and use the time of the best 1 inch strip to gauge the perfect time to expose the paper.

Of course with the expense of developing the "old fashioned" way vs. digital the only question I can ask is why bother with the old fashioned way?

It is indeed a very "visceral" way to get in touch with the process, but I can't tell you how many good pictures I've lost roling the film onto those damn wheels in the dark bag, only to find out sections of the film are touching on the reel, ruining the sections of the film that are in contact with each other.
With digital you can do all the same stuff with the photos, then print your work much more cheaply.

Though I admit, I miss that old Argus C-3 SLR that my dad gave me...
 
Yep, I agree with tait. I use the meter, and change the mode according to what I'm shooting. If you set aperture and shutter, then activate the meter, it will tell you what your setting is relative to the "correct" exposure - i.e. the reading on the meter. Then you can adjust aperture & shutter speed to move it closer to the correct reading.

When you take the shot, view it on the screen, and compare it with what you're seeing in front of you. How is the shot. Too light? Too dark? If you want some mathematical view, look at the histogram: peak over to the right indicates over exposure, over to the left is underexposure, but how this applies to your shot varies with the scene itself. Your camera should allow a "highlight blink", where areas that are at the maximum of the camera's ability to record blink. This will give you an indication of where you might be losing detail in the bright parts ("blown highlights"), which would lead you to reduce the exposure.

It seems very hard now, but don't worry: it becomes intuitive, and you will learn to correctly second-guess your meter.
 
Although, time wise, I'm relatively new to photography, I found the best way to learn how to take a great picture is just through just messing with Full Manual (M) till you find the right Depth of Field you are looking for, and how over,under, or neutral (?) you are exposed. When I go out and have the intent to shoot something (photos that is ) I may only come across 12-15 different photos, but have over 10 different exposures per photo scene. Sometimes more if I'm doing HDR shots, but that's still something im getting the hang of.
 
So Ive been into photography for long enough now to understand what the aperture, shutter speed, ISO do and I understand how to get a good exposure, but there is some stuff that I am unclear about.


......


Also, could you give me a better explaination of all of the numbers on the lens and what exactly they mean. Or maybe a website with all of this stuff on it.

Thanks in advance guys 👍


Seems contradictory to me. . . . :dopey:

Sorry for the length, I preach when I get into this mindset. :)

You balance 3 things to get correct exposure.

First is shutter speed, how long the shutter stays open. Slow lets more light in, fast lets less light.

Second is aperture, how big the iris is set. This is stated as the f-stop, which is a ratio of the focal length. A large iris lets more light in, a small iris lets less. But since it's measured as a ratio, the large iris has a smaller number. So a smaller number allows more light. This is a point of confusion for most new photogs.

Third item is film speed, measured on an ASA or ISO scale. How quickly does the film emulsion react to light? Very loosely speaking, slow film has smaller grain than fast film. In the digital world, the sensor can be "set" to behave at a certain ISO, and might be "noisy" at high ISO settings, or even just less accurate.

The numbers on the lens basically tell you what aperture you have, and how far away you're focused, depending on which scale you're looking at. A zoom lens will also have a scale for focal length, how far it's zoomed.

You might be asking about the numbers that state a lens's designation, as in 70-210mm f-4. That would be a zoom lens whose widest focal length is 70mm, longest is 210mm, and largest possible aperture is f-4 (more correctly f-1:4.)

You say you know what the aperture is, but it sounds as if you don't really understand its implications. It's a ratio of the iris diameter to the focal length, and thus a measurement of how much light passes through the lens. A 50mm lens at f-4 has an iris opening of 12.5 mm, 1/4th the focal length. A 200mm lens at f4 has a 50mm iris opening. Even though the openings are different sizes, the fact that their ratio to the focal length is the same means they are the same aperture, so they yield the same exposure. Just the ratio is being measured. That's why I said above that the aperture is "more correctly" f-1:4, because it's the ratio of focal length to iris size.

Consequences of using a wrong setting, even though exposure is correct:

Wrong shutter speed: If the shutter is too slow, the image may be blurred by motion of the subject or the camera. If the shutter is too fast, the image may be frozen and appear stale. You don't want to freeze a racing car, it'll look like it's parked. On the other hand, you don't want too much motion blur, you'll get a goofy picture. You want the wheels to be blurred enough to show that it's moving. Waterfalls are also very boring when frozen by high shutter speeds.

Wrong aperture: Aperture, besides balancing exposure against shutter speed, controls depthc of field. A small aperture (big f-number) gives a very large depth of field. Foreground and background will be focused. A large aperture (small f-number) will give a very shallow depth of field, possibly just a few millimeters of good focus. This gives you blurred backgrounds to make a subject stand out, but doesn't make a good "Here we are in front of Cinderella's Castle" picture.

Wrong film speed. Using the wrong film speed may make it impossible to get a correct exposure. You probably don't want a 3200 film in broad daylight, not do you want Kodachrome 25 in an indoor banquet setting. But even if you CAN get correct exposure, high film speeds generally have a more grainy appearance and less "latitude," which is a tolerance for excessively light or dark section of the frame.

So all of that is why manual photography is difficult, fascinating, confusing, and very satisfying. But there's nothing wrong with using the meter first for a baseline, then going manual for an effect. Sunsets are almost always better a stop or two darker than measured. My first camera was a manual rangefinder, no metering built in, so I had to carry a handheld meter with me. This picture was frame 16 or 17 of my very first roll of 35mm film, Kodachrome 100!

lilypadsatstateparkwd8.jpg


I read the meter and just dropped two or three stops, I don't even remember. It was 30 years ago!

This one is with the same camera, and used the maximum aperture of the lens (f-2) to restrict the depth of field.

chewaclatreezv9.jpg


BTW, legalese for these. I am the copyright holder for these images, and reserve all rights. No commercial use of these images is allowed without my permission. (As if 600 pixels would get anything useful!)
 
You might be asking about the numbers that state a lens's designation, as in 70-210mm f-4. That would be a zoom lens whose widest focal length is 70mm, longest is 210mm, and largest possible aperture is f-4 (more correctly f-1:4.)

You say you know what the aperture is, but it sounds as if you don't really understand its implications. It's a ratio of the iris diameter to the focal length, and thus a measurement of how much light passes through the lens. A 50mm lens at f-4 has an iris opening of 12.5 mm, 1/4th the focal length. A 200mm lens at f4 has a 50mm iris opening. Even though the openings are different sizes, the fact that their ratio to the focal length is the same means they are the same aperture, so they yield the same exposure. Just the ratio is being measured. That's why I said above that the aperture is "more correctly" f-1:4, because it's the ratio of focal length to iris size.

Righ about here is where I get confused. My kit lens is an 18-55mm which now I understand this to be focal length. Apparently that is the length from the front of the lens to the mirror in the camera?

I still dont think I completely understand what is meant by someone saying wide angle lens or telephoto. I think that telephoto is a zoom lens that is 200mm or more? or something like that....

BTW the long answers are good for me, helps me out a lot. I am really starting to get into this photography even though I dont completely understand every part of it...yet.

I just remembered, I wanted to be sure I understand the exposure thing correctly. Most of you, dont carry around light meters, you just kinda know where the camera is supposed to be and go from there? Also, there is no "correct" exposure for one shot unless you want a different depth of field, or motion blur of some sort?

Thanks again guys :dunce:👍
 
Hmm. A quick glossary that might help you out:

Crop Factor: consumer digital SLRs have a smaller sensor than original 35mm, hence the image is "cropped". This gives the illusion of the lens being longer than it should be for the mm length value. Most consumer dSLRs have a crop factor of 1.6, so a 100mm lens has the same field of view as a 160mm lens on an uncropped ("full frame") camera. All lenses are quoted in their actual length though.

Ultra-wide Angle: Typically less than 24mm on full-frame, 18mm on 1.6 crop. Difficult to get below 16mm on a full-frame, 10mm on crop.

Wide Angle: Typically 24-35mm on full-frame, 18-24mm on crop. 35mm is sometimes referred to as "standard" for a crop.

Standard (also known as Walkaround): The focal lengths you need for general use. Usually 24-90mm on full-frame, 18-70 on crop.

Short telephoto: 70-200mm FF, 55-150 crop.

Telephoto: 200-400mm FF, 150-300 crop

Super Telephoto: 500mm and above.


But the thing is that these "definitions" are different for everyone. Some people would call 200mm telephoto, and without knowing they're using a crop camera, it's difficult to agree, because on full frame (as I am), 200mm isn't that long. At the end of the day, with an 18-55mm zoom, and a 70-200mm zoom, together with a 50mm prime (fixed focal length), you'll be set for most situations.

On the knowing exposure thing, most of us use the light meter built into the camera, as previous posts have mentioned. You can get a correct exposure for many different settings, because to get the right exposure, you need the right amount of light in the camera, and this is a straight ratio of shutter speed divided by aperture. (ISO affects the gain, so it changes the amount of light you need, not the amount entering the camera). So, as long as the right amount of light gets in, you can choose what shutter speed or aperture to use, based on your creative requirements for the shot.
 
Focal length can be cumbersome to define, witness the Wikipedia article. For a single element it's pretty straightforward, but camera lenses are not single elements, so the focal length is a function of the combinations of elements. It really has nothing to do with any physical measurement in the camera or lens. Generally, a bigger number is more magnification, a narrow field of view, what we call telefoto. A smaller number is less magnification, a wider field of view, what we call wide angle.

What focal length lens falls into these categories depends on the size of the image created in the camera. That's the frame size on the film, or the sensor size in digitals. A 50mm setting would be extreme telephoto on a cheap point-and-shoot digital, but a wide angle lens on a medium-format camera. Most of us think in terms of the 35mm world, though.

An effect of the focal length is the perception of perspective. A longer lens will flatten the perspective of the view since its view is so narrow. A wide lens will exaggerate the perspective since it's cramming such a wide view onto the frame. We see that as distortion in the image, things stretched out in the corners, curved on the sides, etc. A lens which yields an image whose perspective is comparable to what we see with the naked eye would be called a "normal" lens. In the 35mm film world, that's a 50mm lens, which is why the kits used to come with just that one lens. Most digital SLRs, it's probably a 35mm or so. In point-and-shoots, it's an incredibly small number. My Sony Cybershot has an 8-24mm zoom on it. (That tells you something about the sensor size, since the 24mm is actually quite strongly telephoto on this camera.)

Basically, you could call anything longer than normal a telephoto. You could call anything shorter than normal a wide angle.

The next question is "why non-zoom lenses anyway?" If you can carry a couple of zooms, say an 24-70 and a 55-200, why would you want anything else?

Two answers. First, speed. Zoom lenses are ALWAYS slower than fixed-length lenses, unless you've got thousands to spend. I have a 50mm f1.4 lens on my Nikon n8008, and I have a 70-200 zoom that's f-4 at 70mm and only f-5.6 at 200mm. If it gets dark and I need the longer lens, I have to switch to fast film or a tripod, because I'll need longer shutter speeds to get enough light.

Second answer is distortion. Zooms are way better these days than they were when I started in the 70's. A zoom lens would usually have terrible barrel distortion as it went through its range. One end everything at the edges curves inward, at the other end everything curves outward. Purists always scoffed at anybody that showed up with a zoom lens. They were too poor to get enough "real glass" to cover their needs.

Another problem with zooms is control. Some lenses have a separate ring for focus and zoom, some combine both functions on one ring. When you're shooting fast, like an airshow or a race, you really really want the 1-ring zoom. It's a royal pain to switch between controls to set zoom length and then focus before the subject is passed out of view.

As for your exposure question, there's always a "correct" exposure that brings the correct amount of light onto the film or sensor. That correct amount can be balanced by changing f-stop and shutter speed. If 1/125-second at f-4 is correct, then so is 1/250-second at f-2.8, or 1/1000-second at f-1.4. The first setting might have a little motion blur, the last one would be frozen but have a very shallow depth of field. Which one is correct? All are, for exposure, but for the desired effect, it depends on what you want.

In your first post you asked about numbers on the lens. Since then I found this image on Wikipedia, in the article on exposure.

600pxlensaperturesidemr1.jpg


You see a window near the front of the lens, a scale right under that, and a scale near where the lens attaches to the camera. This is a non-zoom lens, so there's no scale for focal length.

The window shows the distance the lens is focused for. Look through the viewfinder, focus the subject. 99% of the time you could care less what's in this little window.

But, if you want to know the correct f-stop for a desired depth of field, that's what the scale under the window is for. The thick line in the center is the distance to the subject, in this case about 1-1/2 meters. You see the lines pointing to 11 on either side of that, lined up at about 1 and 2 meters. That tells you that at f-11, the distance range from 1 meter to 2 meters will be in focus. at f-16 a little bit more distance is in focus, and at f-22 quite a bit more, just about all the way to infinity. You don't see markings for smaller f-stop numbers, they are too close to each other to worry about, but you could judge pretty well by guesstimating that at f-4, you might only have 3 or 4 inches of focus depth.

That scale exists on a zoom lens as well, but as a set of curved lines. You read it at the end of the zoom barrel.

Notice the little white dot under the focus window. That's for infrared film. If you shoot infrared, you have to adjust the focus, because infrared light bends differently than visible light as it goes through the lens. Basically, focus through the viewfinder, then move the focus so the point at the heavy line moves to the dot. That compensates for the infrared difference.

Finally, the numbers at the base of the lens are, of course, the manual settings for aperture. The 22 is red because that's where you put it for automatic aperture. Turn the ring to put the f-stop you want next to the white dot above the ring.

At the side, the 35mm 1:2 tells you that this lens has a focal length of 35mm, and a maximum aperture of f-2. The D is what model series it is in Nikon's line. This is a fixed-length "normal" lens for their digial SLRs.
 
Wow you guys are awesome! When I first got into photography I didnt realize it how much was actually involved in making everything work properly. I'm starting to get it now thanks to you guys, and actually experimenting.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of what the numbers mean. I was originally confused about the focal length because I thought that the distances marked on the lens was focal length. But I now know that is not true.

I actually added a lens to my arsenal today. Its a nikkor 55-200mm f/3.5-5.6. I havent really got a chance to try it out yet because it was dark out when I was going to try.

I also just got 4 rolls of film developed from my sisters volleyball game, and apparently the camera that I was using (Pentax ME Super) overexposes when its on auto mode because all of the photos I took in auto were drastically over exposed. Oh well, you live and learn.

I will keep reading about the technical stuff, and if you guys want to type any more half page responses explaining stuff, feel free to do so. 👍
 
If the prints are real light (overexposed) see if the negatives are real dark. If the negatives don't really look dark, then the processor printed poorly. Been known to happen.

OTOH, if the negatives ARE dark, check that you had the correct ISO setting in the camera. Some cameras read the film canister and set the ISO automatically, but older ones don't. Even those that do can override the auto with a manual ISO setting.
 
Eh, Im pretty sure its my fault. I had the camera set for 400ISO which was correct for the film that I was using. I had it in auto mode which is pretty much the same as aperture priority mode on a modern digital slr, I had the iris all the way open so I would have thought it would have compensated with a higher shutter speed, but that didnt happen. So I guess I dont have an excuse. Next time I am going full manual and setting it 1 or 2 shutter speeds faster than it says is right. This is just really frustrating, shooting 4 rolls of film and they come out crap. :yuck:
 
If the camera was in full-auto, the aperture should have been set to the highest number, not wide open. The aperture is manual, not automatic, unless it's set to the minimum aperture. You overrode the auto by setting it wide open.

See my lens picture above. The 22 is red because that's the auto setting.

So by setting your lens wide open, you got very over-exposed pictures.



If you had the camera set to auto, and the lens to f-2, f-4, whatever is maximum, there should have been an indication in the viewfinder. I don't know the D40, but I've seen Nikon film camers put EE where the shutterspeed shuld be in the viewfinder. Full auto is NOT aperture priority. Had you set the camera to A, it would have been fine; it would have set a shutter speed to match your selected aperture.

When a camera is in full-auto, it is selecting both shutter speed and aperture. Some cameras have multiple full-auto modes, shifting emphasis towards depth of field or stopping motion. They may call it program-tele, program-wide, something like that. Tele would shorten the shutter speed to avoid camera shake in the picture, program wide would tighten the iris to get better depth of field.
 
That's an aperture-priority auto, all right, so you handled it correctly, with one exception.

Since you shot with the iris all the way open, and with 400 speed film (relatively fast), the camera probably didn't have a shutter speed fast enough for correct exposure. In daylight, 400 speed would probably need a shutter at about 1/30,000th second. A bit faster than the Pentax is capable of.

Faster film means less exposure, so stop it down a bit. In daylight, you probably don't want to use 400 film at anything larger than f16, maybe f8.
 
Something still doesnt add up. The photos were overexposed but blurred severely, for some reason the camera wasnt setting the shutter fast enough. I have my mom looking for the book on the lens, just to be sure that I am not overlooking something.

I guess I'm still not comfortable with shooting film. Just need more practice I guess.

Edit: I am trying to find some info on the lens itself. Now that I look at it, the aperture I was using was 4.5 that is the largest it goes. The stop that is one bigger (numerically) is actually just a dot, so I am thinking that might be like the red number on the lens in the picture above. The lens is a vivitar, it says skylight 1a? I think its 80-200mm with a macro setting at the very end. Kinda weird.
 
The skylight 1a is a filter attached to the lens. The dot by f-4.5 is the next f-stop setting, 5.6.

I can't help you with the blur without knowing if it's motion blur or focus blur, but if it's motion blur, then the camera seems to have just givien up. If the pic is overexposed because of large aperture and fast film, the camera should have used its fastest shutter speed, I think 1/1000 on that camera. There wouldn't be any motion blur at that speed.

Focus blur would show in the viewfinder. The whole point of the SLR is the see in the finder the exact image going to the film.

It's possible the camera just doesn't work. Dead battery? It has a mechanical shutter of 1/125 when the battery dies. That would certainly give you motion blur on many subjects.

Added: Found the manual for the camera. The camera's metering is a series of LEDs on the left side of the viewfinder. Green or yellow LEDs indicate good exposure. The yellow is a slow shutter speed selected, tripod recommended. If the red by OVER or UNDER is lit, the exposure is out of the camera's range, adjust the f-stop accordingly.

If you have no LEDs, the battery is dead. If the LEDs flicker, the battery is weak, almost dead.

It appears that the mechanical 1/125 speed is only used when specifically selected on the mode dial.

Also, make sure the exposure compensation setting (on the rewind knob, where you also set ASA) is set to 1X. Exposure compensation tells the camera to adjust its findings by whatever amount is set there.
 
I know about the leds in the viewfinder but I didnt think that I had to worry about them when shooting in auto. The blurs were motion blur, and the camera can go as fast as 1/2000. also, is 400ISO film really THAT fast?

The battery was practically brand new, and the knob for compensation was set at 1x
 
Basically, if you get a red LED, you can't shoot at the selected settings.

But if it was on auto, I don't know where the motion blur would come from, unless it just doesn't work.

And in daylight, yes, 400 is fast.

Try again, at the other end of the aperture scale.
 
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