German cars and 155mph

could someone please tell me why bmw's mercs and audis are limited to 155mph and how difficult it is to remove such a feature + does it void your warranty?

i am thinking of getting an M3 but i'd hate to be 'limited' to 155mph when i wanted to max it out.

(oh yeah as a side note, does it just limit the top gear or does it restrict rpm through the gear range or what?)

paul
 
OK, I see four questions, so I'll answer the ones I can:

1. Why do they do it
Probably to stop a domestic speeds arms race, in the same way that Japanese manufacturers limit themselves to 280bhp.

2. How easy is it to remove the limiter
It's relatively simple, usually requiring a change in the engine management. Several companies will do it for you including all the established tuners. However, the cars are not really designed to run at >155mph for very long, and apparently a UK magazine got an M5 to expire (in the same way that a grenade expires) after about 6 miles at 186mph. Apparently though the SL55AMG will hit 195, and stay there, and the Audi RS6 will run at 180mph all day.

3. Will it void my warranty
Yes. Definitely. Without question. No, really. In fact, pretty much even thinking about doing it will void your warranty. Just think about it: the manufacturer puts a limit in place, and you, by contacting a 3rd party, get that limiter removed. THEN, when you blow the engine/clutch/gearbox/diff, you want the manufacturer to replace the blown part at THEIR expense? Their response would consist of two words, and the second of those would be 'off'.

4. Does it only work in top gear
No. I can't speak for the 5-speed 'M' cars, but I know that all the 6-speed 'M's (that's the current 5, the current 3, and the 5 evo and 3 evo from the previous generation) would hit the limiter in 5th and 6th.

The only thing left for me to say is:
i am thinking of getting an M3 but i'd hate to be 'limited' to 155mph when i wanted to max it out.

I would strongly recommend that you wait until such time as you've found the limiter to be an inconvenience on several occasions before trying to get it removed. The thing is that it all gets a bit hairy above 130mph, whether on road or track. Also, there aren't that many tracks where you can get a road car over 140mph, and few places on real roads where you can do it.
 
i use to own a BMW M5 and i was at one time thinking about removing the limiter but in the end i decided against it. mainly because of resale value and the fact that i would loose my warranty but if you really want to see how fast it can go then remove it, my friend had an previous generation M3 and that was de-limited and he use to get 170mph out of it with no other modifications to the engine.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
The thing is that it all gets a bit hairy above 130mph, whether on road or track. Also, there aren't that many tracks where you can get a road car over 140mph, and few places on real roads where you can do it.

thanks a lot for the giles, in terms of the warranty and resale value i might keep it on like you suggest. but as for it getting hairy over 130mph i dunno. i drove my family's vauxhall/opel over that and it felt fine. i would hope that an m3 would be designed to keep stable at those speeds. and since i live in europe the 320bhp version is available as are roads to test it on (autobahns).

paul

but when you say an sl55 will stay at 195 all day, isn't that car limited? or is the limiter taken off by amg? and has a magazine actually run that car at that speed for say 30 mins+ ? or is it just an assumption based on the fact that merc engines are so good. likewise for the rs6...

paul
 
Originally posted by Nightmage82
but when you say an sl55 will stay at 195 all day, isn't that car limited? or is the limiter taken off by amg? and has a magazine actually run that car at that speed for say 30 mins+ ? or is it just an assumption based on the fact that merc engines are so good. likewise for the rs6...

paul

No, the SL55 and the RS6 are both limited at sale. I think that one of the European magazines has actually performed those tests.
 
I have an article / test of the RS6 in a car mag. Apparently the "limiter" in the RS6 isn't up to the usual Audi quality. It started beeping at 260Km/h but the RS6 continued happily up to 270 something Km/h before it kicked in :D edit: Come to think of it it could very well be 280 something :mischievous:
 
is there any truth about the limiters wasting fuel... in that when its floored at say 155mph, the car will still use as much fuel as it would full throttle on that gear but just not give you the speed? or is that just an urban myth.

paul

edit: when i say full throttle i really mean full speed i.e. 170mph instead of 155
 
Originally posted by Nightmage82
is there any truth about the limiters wasting fuel... in that when its floored at say 155mph, the car will still use as much fuel as it would full throttle on that gear but just not give you the speed? or is that just an urban myth.

paul

edit: when i say full throttle i really mean full speed i.e. 170mph instead of 155

You would find that a car with a drive-by-wire throttle will use the same amount of fuel with just enough throttle pressure to maintain 155mph as sitting there with it floored. This is because the ECU will only feed as much fuel as is required.

A car will use more fuel at 170mph than at 155mph, because of the increase in aerodynamic drag.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
You would find that a car with a drive-by-wire throttle will use the same amount of fuel with just enough throttle pressure to maintain 155mph as sitting there with it floored. This is because the ECU will only feed as much fuel as is required.

A car will use more fuel at 170mph than at 155mph, because of the increase in aerodynamic drag.

ok thanks for that giles, i just heard somewhere that the limiter would somehow burn more fuel but not use it or something heh, just to punish you or something. but that clears it up thanks

paul
 
yes the tires are other factor to think when we talk about top speed.

most tires are made for handle high speed but 155 mph is alot.
plus the weight and temperature are others factors to care about(higher speed = more heat ).

the SL 55 is 4K+ pounds and keep all that weight rolling at higher speed isn't so easy.

the safety factor have a litle part too.

(sorry but for my poor domination of the language i can't explain it better,but i think you got the idea)
 
i travel accross germany quite a lot from time to time and i need to run 100-120mph constant for several hours, my tyres clearly take a battering during that time, but does anyone know if its better for them to be running at a higher pressure or lower pressure than usual? or just right?

one time i found out my dad had overinflated them by loads but thankfully they didn't (as giles would put it) expire heh.

anyone have any knowledge on this? (btw the tyres themselves ARE as far as i know certified to about 140mph...)

paul
 
Just out of interest, why would you even need a car that maxes out at 150+ mph? I mean, roads in England are so congested that a 1.4-litre FIAT would be considered over the top.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
3. Will it void my warranty
Yes. Definitely. Without question. No, really. In fact, pretty much even thinking about doing it will void your warranty. Just think about it: the manufacturer puts a limit in place, and you, by contacting a 3rd party, get that limiter removed.
Yeah right... I've worked at Mercedes (for school) and they said if you buy a new Benz with a limiter... they remove it if you say so without voiding the warranty!!
 
Originally posted by Nightmage82
i travel accross germany quite a lot from time to time and i need to run 100-120mph constant for several hours, my tyres clearly take a battering during that time, but does anyone know if its better for them to be running at a higher pressure or lower pressure than usual? or just right?

one time i found out my dad had overinflated them by loads but thankfully they didn't (as giles would put it) expire heh.

anyone have any knowledge on this? (btw the tyres themselves ARE as far as i know certified to about 140mph...)

paul

Optimally fill your tires for high speeds (high pressure), better on gas milage too...
 
Originally posted by Nightmage82
i travel accross germany quite a lot from time to time and i need to run 100-120mph constant for several hours, my tyres clearly take a battering during that time, but does anyone know if its better for them to be running at a higher pressure or lower pressure than usual? or just right?

one time i found out my dad had overinflated them by loads but thankfully they didn't (as giles would put it) expire heh.

anyone have any knowledge on this? (btw the tyres themselves ARE as far as i know certified to about 140mph...)

paul
You should run your tires close to their maximum pressure as stated on the sidewall. NEVER exceed that pressure. Never go lower than the vehicle manufacturer pressure rating.
 
Originally posted by Nightmage82
i travel accross germany quite a lot from time to time and i need to run 100-120mph



I used to...go to school quite a lot...and I used to drive 120-140mph on the way.:odd::lol:
 
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