Gran Turismo World Series (Nations Cup Exhibition Season: Jan 22 - Feb 1)

[Famine]

I can only imagine how the Manu Cup finalists feel about this. I would have to think the BoP changes have affected some teams substantially.

Live events use a custom BOP, so it's not relevant.

 

[Moose78]

Live events use a custom BOP, so it's not relevant.

That's fascinating. So all the drivers qualify under the same BoP settings that the rest of us plebs do, but when they get to the finals their cars get buffed or nerfed further by PD? How does PD ensure that is done fairly? Does PD document that process at all? Or the BoP adjustments that are made to the cars? Do the cars get rebalanced for each race or are the same ones used across all the live events? I've got so many questions about this.

 

[newmedia_dev]

The start time for Nurbs next week is 20:45 and a 15 lap race will run us to 21:30.

I wonder if there will be a transition to night?

 

[Yard_Sale]

I did a quick custom race in the Porsche to get an idea. Good news is the car drove much better in the custom race than it did in the TT. Not sure why (fuel load helping balance?) but since the TT is the 'official' race criteria, I am still leery. I got my custom race setup here.

I ran BB at +3 and after half the race, the tires were basically half worn all around, and all evenly so. That was crazy. I did find that running RS first, that the lap times really started to fall off after eight laps. So my one test, I am thinking RS eight then RM to the end.

That being said, I want to try a race starting on RMs and see if I can eek out one more lap on the RSs due to the less weight. I honestly don't see myself starting high on the grid anyway, so it'll likely be an RM start.


Fortunately, I've been able to adjust to the new physics okay. I still don't think I am at the level I was before, but I am getting to the point where I have some confidence in the car. What I have no confidence in is the tires and how to not kill them in a car that's not good on tires (using the previous race as my only example). I really don't know why PD decided to drop this new BoP and physics update right in the middle of the WS races.

Although the cars seem to be more lively with these new physics, that doesn’t really bother us Ferrari drivers. Our car has always moved around a lot 😂


Might try to get a race in for this last round. 15 laps at NBGP sounds fun

 

[JDMKING13]

Although the cars seem to be more lively with these new physics, that doesn’t really seem to bother us Ferrari drivers. Our car has always moved around a lot 😂


Might try to get a race in for this last round. 15 laps at NBGP sounds fun

I agree!! I just had to get used to driving a lot more smoother and really being conscious about treating the tires with care.. I am actually faster with this update!

That ManuCup race was the 1st time ever since GT7 been out, in which it was a sprint race and the whole field had different tires It was beautiful!

 

[Famine]

Do the cars get rebalanced for each race or are the same ones used across all the live events?

It's a custom BOP for each individual live event.

How does PD ensure that is done fairly?

I think the aim is to make sure that it is fair. Or at least close. The one-size fits all approach for Sport Mode would result in the usual dominance we see online, which really sucks for a live event.

Does PD document that process at all? Or the BoP adjustments that are made to the cars?

Hahahahaha, no. Except in the driver briefing documents which... I occasionally get my hands on. I've got the Monaco 2022 and Barcelona 2023 BOPs somewhere.

 

[Bojador]

I like the update but I can't understand the logic in changing physics, which can throw a wrench on the BoP, mid season. Yeah I know the first live event was already on this physics, but they had no time to prepare and the BoP was still affected and now we have a new BoP. Time will tell if it's balanced, but they had finally got BoP to a point where lots of different cars were competitive.

 

[Talon16]

I think the aim is to make sure that it is fair. Or at least close. The one-size fits all approach for Sport Mode would result in the usual dominance we see online, which really sucks for a live event.

Honestly, I had no idea the WS live events were a different BoP than what we're all using! I am not gonna lie, I am a little disheartened by the fact PD want the live events to be as fair as possible, with respect to the BoPs of the cars, but don't seem to much care about the rest of us who have to use the Supra, for example, or we just get destroyed. They seem to have no issue with out lobbies being full of Supras or Genesis Xs, that's for sure.

I realize the actual WS drivers can't pick their cars, per say (ie, multiple drivers can't use whatever car happens to be the META at the time as they're tied to their MFG), but if the BoP is fair for them on the live events, why not distribute it to the rest of us?

I am trying to convince myself there's a method to the madness... but it all seems a bit disingenuous. The whole, "not mad just dissapointed" type of thing.

 

[RobertHammer]

Gr.3 BOP wise we almost like in the pre update era where they didnt made the 3 variants of BOP

now its just one BOP and its a step back - made the OP Supra comeback :/

Gr.4 seems fine

 

[newmedia_dev]

I reconcile all the @Talon16 in the fact that 99% of people can't actually drive the metas well anyway...actually they can't actually drive.

 

[MCL1974]

I did a quick custom race in the Porsche to get an idea. Good news is the car drove much better in the custom race than it did in the TT. Not sure why (fuel load helping balance?) but since the TT is the 'official' race criteria, I am still leery. I got my custom race setup here.

Experienced the same, the cars feels a bit more stable in a custom race then in TT. Done a bit of testing with the AMG's and not sure if I have the pace or not, lot's of difference between each lap. Might it be that there is more of a difference between a wheel and a controller with the new physics?

Controller user myself, low to midd B, and best lap in a custom race at this track is about a 1.57.6 on softs, 1.58.3 on mediums. It might just be my imagination but somehow the AMG '16 feels a bit more stable then the AMG '20? Not sure yet which of these cars I will use.

Now testing the AMG '16 with a bit of a F1 based Petronas livery to celibrate George Russel's Lewis Hamilton's fine win at Spa. It is fun to not only learn the new physics but also a track that I avoided like the plague. I really do not like the first and final sector, but starting to dislike it a bit less due to all that testing and now slowly improving my laps on this track.

 

[newmedia_dev]

It's a funny track, quite polarising it think as it blends technical and flowing but arguably the ones you think are (me) are technical it's flowing bit I struggle with.

I do think controller users have some advantage here but it's marginal.

I'm a rubbish wheel user and I know for sure there are 2 pad laps on my leaderboard at faster than me.

This will be a fun race, mostly for attrition as a spin will be race ending

 

[Famine]

Honestly, I had no idea the WS live events were a different BoP than what we're all using! I am not gonna lie, I am a little disheartened by the fact PD want the live events to be as fair as possible, with respect to the BoPs of the cars, but don't seem to much care about the rest of us who have to use the Supra, for example, or we just get destroyed. They seem to have no issue with out lobbies being full of Supras or Genesis Xs, that's for sure.

I realize the actual WS drivers can't pick their cars, per say (ie, multiple drivers can't use whatever car happens to be the META at the time as they're tied to their MFG), but if the BoP is fair for them on the live events, why not distribute it to the rest of us?

I am trying to convince myself there's a method to the madness... but it all seems a bit disingenuous. The whole, "not mad just dissapointed" type of thing.

I straight hate the idea that one single BOP works for all tracks - and indeed for all races. The point of a BOP is to endeavour to get all cars to the finish line of any given race at the same time.

That means that race time, taking into account tyre degradation and fuel consumption and the number of stops required, should be the defining factor and not lap time. And not lap time on a completely different track (or aggregated over several; still don't know how they do it).

But ultimately it doesn't matter so much. In Daily Races you're not representing anything, so use whatever; annoying if you don't like the meta, but only one person can win and the rest of us are there for the funsies. In actual Manufacturers Cup events, it doesn't matter how many people use the Supra or Genesis X because only one person's going to qualify with it and literally everyone else using them will be ignored. Sure they'll qualify the brand (though Toyota and Genesis are brand partners, so already there), but if 1500 people are better than you in a Toyota/Genesis and you're 1,501st in a Citroen, you'll qualify too.

In reality it doesn't matter what the top drivers are using because they'll qualify it. Except Suzuki which probably couldn't even qualify for a Suzuki-only event.

Once at the finals, they want the races on stream to look nice and tight to keep you all guessing for as long as possible and a lot of work goes into balancing the cars for the race time - as it should - before Fraga pops in with an out-there three-stopper and wins by seven seconds. I think Mikail Hizal is very closely involved in the process.


I'd very, very much prefer if every Daily Race with mixed cars was tested and balanced so that everything could set the same race time. It's a ridiculous amount of work - but I expect that this is something Sophy could and should be used for; running a field of 16 Pro level Sophy agents for a couple of thousand simulated races of the chosen combination and using power/weight to gradually adjust the outliers towards the centre would seem like a sensible way of doing it.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Right just to be clear, BoP is meant to ensure comparable lap times, that's why you balance performance.

That some cars have different gearing, different drive trains, different weights.

Bop is designed to keep the lap times close.

Now, the nuance is that not a lot of people can do those lap times in a spread of cars.

This is why the meta is good for the top guys but most of us can't even get close to those times.


Bop is a distraction, in the really world we have reversed grids, over ballasting etc

It's a rabbit hole to focus purely on the bop imo

Edit: @Famine you don't even need to do that with how Sophy is now.

I'd go out on a limb they have the car bop, it's the player stuff that is the variable they can't calculate.

 

[MCL1974]

so tested the AMG GT3 '16 in TT. Best lap in the '20 till now was a 1.57.0 and a bit.Now with the '16 and within 5 laps I did a 1.56.182:



Off course I am improving because I am getting used to the physics and the track itself but still, this felt like one hell of a lap for someone at my level. No way I am even coming close to that time again...

Also did a custom race to test, soft tyres with the AMG '16 and they were still okay after 8 laps.
and sometimes in this game you also have some great experiences in what is just a custom race:



funny thing was that I just kept going when I saw what happened and then suddenly realised that in custom race the cars do not ghost during an incident like this, unlike in 'real' racing!!! Luckely I could avoid both cars... only just.

 

[Talon16]

I did another custom race trying RM to RS in hope that I'd be able to get an extra lap from the RS being on them second. But no, still seems like RM for seven and RS for eight regardless of the order. In the race I pit on lap six going for a 6|9 (ahuhuhuhuhu) but my lap 15 on the worn soft time was about .400" slower than lap six on the RMs.

The overall time was six seconds faster, though. Thinking I am just getting used to the track.

One thing I still cannot for the life of me do, is hit that last chicane consistently well. Sometimes it's fine, but more often than not the car bounces around and it spins. Tight chicanes ruin racetracks! The one for the N24 track is so much better. The one for the GP track sucks.

 

[Moose78]

I gotten some more practice in and I'm starting to feel a little better on the track. I'm still slow, but I'm getting more consistent. Maybe a little faster.

I re-ran my baseline tests, where I run each compound as long as I can (now that's only 13 laps on RS, not 14). The charts are much smoother now than they were yesterday (data in this spreadsheet):

Based on these numbers, the optimal strategy for me is 6RM-9RS. [Edit: There was an error in my spreadsheet. The actual optimal is 10RM-5RS] I tried that in a custom race, but that last lap on the softs was pretty rough. I might just dial that back to 7RM-8RS.

I also managed to squeeze in a lobby race, where they were doing 6 laps with a grid start. Like last week, the Citreon just blasted its way to a 1-second lead off the line, but then I spent the rest of the race giving way to all the faster drivers as they caught me. Finished in 6th, IIRC. I'm not feeling that hopeful for race day.

One thing I still cannot for the life of me do, is hit that last chicane consistently well. Sometimes it's fine, but more often than not the car bounces around and it spins. Tight chicanes ruin racetracks! The one for the N24 track is so much better. The one for the GP track sucks.

I have to slow the car right down to hit that chicane with any consistency. I fully expect to be rammed from behind on at least one pass through it.

I did notice, though, that the track limit penalties seem to be more lax through the chicane now compared to when we had the TGR race here a few weeks ago. In free practice, custom races, and lobby races, I've cut the chicane several times -- way right of the pole -- and not gotten a penalty for it. There are a few other places on the track where I've gone wide, too, expected to get a penalty, and it never came. I wonder if that was adjusted as part of the update.

 

[RobertHammer]

It seems on Gr.3 High speed BoP tracks like Bathurst etc

old metas are back not just the Supra that i mentioned - it was OP in the Spa just with no strat RH tyres

GR Supra , M6 , RC F , C7 and Genesis X

meanwhile on Gr.3 Mid speed track like Trial Mountain

it looks like theres way more variety and no clear meta which is interesting

 

[Moose78]

Based on these numbers, the optimal strategy for me is 6RM-9RS. I tried that in a custom race, but that last lap on the softs was pretty rough. I might just dial that back to 7RM-8RS.

Correction: There was an error in my spreadsheet calculations. My theoretical optimal is actually 10RM-5RS, with 9RM-6RS a close second.

 

[Roggers]

These new physics look to be all over the place..?

So I can finally see where my times stack up on the new physics and well it's just ridiculous really.

I'm definitely off pace to my normal times around Nurburgring GP. Id say I'm a good 1.5-2 seconds off, but to be a full 6 seconds of the top time is just stupid. Id say on average I'm about 3 seconds off the world tour players, but 6!!
Also 101st top time is 1.6 seconds on the leaders.. definitely can tell people are struggling.

Corvette feels completely trash here too. I had to switch to weak ABS to stop some of the slides.

Edit....Ok just found 2 seconds in a few laps. How you ask... TC1. TC1 seems to work.

 

[bliprunner]

So during my (quite long) lunch break I drove the boy's Citroen in Manu practice mode.

First I went 5 laps in the Porsche and managed 1:54 flat, a tenth behind my best effort from earlier in the week. Then into the Citroen for 5 laps...

So half a second difference, but given more practice than just 5 laps I'm sure this gap would come down.

Feels like the Citroen has got more grunt in acceleration but a bit harder to control in 2/3rd gear. The Porsche needs to be driven in 1st a bit but in the Citroen I only used it for rotation (and don't think I used it on my best lap).

Rotation feels slower with a bit more understeer but at the same time the Citroen feels a bit more stable overall and perhaps a touch better on the brakes, less snappy. Maybe a tiny bit better on the kerbs.

The Porsche was ABS weak and Citroen ABS default, I need to try default in the Porsche sometime. TC0, BB0 for both. If you want some extra geeky and 100% useless info the tyre temps of both cars after 5 laps are attached, and best lap replay is saved with tag GTP

 

[Moose78]

So during my (quite long) lunch break I drove the boy's Citroen in Manu practice mode.

Okay, I get it. I'm slow. No need to rub it in.

@bliprunner, are you a wheel driver? I see @Talon16 is, at least according to their signature.

I'm starting to wonder if being on the controller is part of it. There was that bit in the update details about changes to analog stick users:

　- The wireless controller steering algorithm was updated.
　　・The steering algorithm when using the analogue sticks and the directional pad were enhanced, resulting in better handling.

Could I be a victim of 'better handling'?

 

[newmedia_dev]

I'm starting to wonder if being on the controller is part of it. There was that bit in the update details about changes to analog stick users:
Could I be a victim of 'better handling'?

Based on my times and I'm on a DD wheel I don't think it's unique to controller users.

I think I'm struggling a lot with 2 things:

1: braking generally but also finding the release spot when trail braking

2: confidence in accelerating. I think the way the cars feel re: weight transfer and lots of small slides is holding me back from really getting on the loud pedal, I just don't have confidence in the traction being there.

Edit:

There is a 3rd thing.

3. Stupidity of not using the Softs 🤦‍♂️ that would explain quite a bit of the time....

 

[bliprunner]

Okay, I get it. I'm slow. No need to rub it in.

@bliprunner, are you a wheel driver? I see @Talon16 is, at least according to their signature.

I'm starting to wonder if being on the controller is part of it. There was that bit in the update details about changes to analog stick users:

Could I be a victim of 'better handling'?

Yes, I'm a DD Pro user with the regular CSL pedals (no load cell thingy).

I was just curious to compare and see how different/fast/slow the Citroen felt. Both times I was chasing the best leaderboard Porsche (about 1.5 secs ahead of me, so relatively speaking I am slow...)

For sure the new physics on a wheel give you more to do, more adjustments to make to keep the car balanced, so depending on how they have adjusted the pad controls it may well have gotten tougher.

Using a pad made my fingers ache, even when I was younger in my 20s/30s, even going to pad tilt controls didn't fix that, I need a big wheel to rest my old man arms on!

 

[Moose78]

Based on my times and I'm on a DD wheel I don't think it's unique to controller users.

Yeah. I'm just grasping at straws here.

Coming to think of it, @Tidgney did pad laps in both of his most recent time trial videos and didn't seem to have any problems knocking out gold times. I'm pretty sure he uses analog sticks for those, too. So probably not the controller.

I expect my problems are mostly moose-related.

 

[Tidgney]

Yeah. I'm just grasping at straws here.

Coming to think of it, @Tidgney did pad laps in both of his most recent time trial videos and didn't seem to have any problems knocking out gold times. I'm pretty sure he uses analog sticks for those, too. So probably not the controller.

I expect my problems are mostly moose-related.

I do use analogue sticks on a pad 😊

 

[Talon16]

Did some more TTing in the Citroen and Porsche. I watched some top time laps and changed up my line some. After about five laps in the Citroen I gave up. I couldn't improve my time of the 55.7 or whatever it is.

Went and did some in the Porsche and dropped my time to a 54.23. I haven't touched the Renault but I fell there may be a 53s in that car, currently at the 54.5 after like five laps total some days ago.

Again, I have no idea why the Citroen time is 1.5 seconds off, but it's quite odd indeed.

I still feel like I need to find .250" more in the Porsche to be competitive within the lobby I'll end up.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I still feel like I need to find .250" more in the Porsche to be competitive within the lobby I'll end up.

Yeah...my 1:55s aren't gonna be anywhere near in Europe lobbies. The QT times on my leaderboard put me about 2s back. In race it will be different but it's a hard ask at Nurbs to go last to top 5

 

[Roggers]

Based on my times and I'm on a DD wheel I don't think it's unique to controller users.

I think I'm struggling a lot with 2 things:

1: braking generally but also finding the release spot when trail braking

2: confidence in accelerating. I think the way the cars feel re: weight transfer and lots of small slides is holding me back from really getting on the loud pedal, I just don't have confidence in the traction being there.

Exactly how I feel right now.

Braking - im either too long on the brakes (causing slides) or I'm too quick to get off them (then I'm coasting too much)

Throttle - I'm not getting on the throttle quick enough either. From the start of the braking to throttle phase I'm just too slow right now and very hesitant. That's why I've added TC1 to try and help get on the throttle

 

[Moose78]

I broke down and chased a ghost in Free Practice earlier today -- probably that same top Porsche that @bliprunner mentioned -- driving the Citreon. I got my best time down to 1:56.872. There's maybe another tenth or two in there, if really try to push it, but I can't see getting much beyond that. Still, if I'm only 1.1s off of @Talon16, I feel like I'm doing about as well a I can expect.

I suppose I'm a bit of an oddball, but I usually try to avoid using ghosts in Free Practice. The reason for that is that I find it artificially improves my lap times. I always run faster when I'm chasing a ghost than I do without one. It's not representative of how I'll drive the car in the race. I find myself going on autopilot when I chase a ghost. All of my focus is on staying on the ghost's bumper without much thought about the lines that I'm taking or why. I miss out on learning how to drive the track myself.