Grandma can't shift in .099 milliseconds!

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Hey there! I am a fanatic. What fanatics do if there preferred game isn't perfect? They complain. So here is my rant:

I am overwhelmed by the insanely fast gear changes in even the most basic of cars. You cannot shift at light speed with a regular stick shift.
Such millisecond shift times are entirely limited to sequential, double-clutch and automatic torque converter gearboxes. And to my to my astonishment,
this phenomenon is still present in GT6. At least by the videos leaked so far.
I believe that this is something that needs to be addressed and quickly.

End of rant. If such a thread is already existance, I do apologize. The search function is unavailable at this time.

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[humpus]

True. But there's also no engine braking. Or correct rev limiting. And many, many other things. Now imagine if everyone started a new thread about each rant they had. You don't need a search button to find the general compaint topics.

 

[Gejabo]

There is a thread for complaining/whining/ranting.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=282208

that said,
If you're that pasionate for realism you probably have a wheel with an stick shifter (G25/ G27 or the thrustmaster with the shifter) than the shifting times are reduced.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

There is a thread for complaining/whining/ranting.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=282208

Yes I know, I wanted to be specific.

If you're that pasionate for realism you probably have a wheel with an stick shifter (G25/ G27 or the thrustmaster with the shifter) than the shifting times are reduced.

I would have If had got the money. But that cannot be such a thing that only well financed GT users can enjoy. And this phenomenon has been missing from all the games except GT5. All other GT's the shift times were as accurate as can be in most cars. And to achieve faster shift times one would have to install a clutch and a racing gearbox. Just as in reality.

RattijuoppoFIN

E: And just to be clear, I don't complain just because of the complaining, I do it because of the desire for GT to evolve. And for most parts its seems that we are going backwards in the most basics of things.

 

[jonjwlee]

It's also unfair when you're using a H-shifter wheel and can only shift slowly whilst another player using a DualShock 3 can shift instantly while using the same car.

Something else I've just thought of: realistic automatic shift patterns. It's a bit irritating when you're cruising around in a bog-standard automatic runabout that waits for you to reach for the redline before it shifts up. The latest Most Wanted made the car shift up automatically if you're just cruising (though it's a bit slow to change up). I suppose, however, that it's a bit of a low-priority issue.

 

[Jawehawk]

True. But there's also no engine braking.

There is.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

There is.

Where? I haven't seen any. The effect is way too small in GT5.
And if one press the throttle when shifting down gears the engine
braking should be more severe even though it is not.

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[eran0004]

Where? I haven't seen any. The effect is way too small in GT5.

May be too small, but it's definitely there.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

May be too small, but it's definitely there.

Engine braking should be the kind of thing that gives aggressively braking
drivers an advantage when deaccelerating.

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[eran0004]

Engine braking should be the kind of thing that gives aggressively braking
drivers an advantage when deaccelerating.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. How does engine braking give you an advantage when braking aggressively?

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Increasing revolutions of the engine while downshifting decreases forward
momentum when deaccelerating. This happens because of the friction
in the engine at higher revolutions. Also it has something to do with
the drivetrain in most cars.

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[eran0004]

Increasing revolutions of the engine while downshifting decreases forward
momentum when deaccelerating. This happens because of the friction
in the engine at higher revolutions. Also it has something to do with
the drivetrain in most cars.

RattijuoppoFIN

I just tested that in GT5 and it's there. High rpm gives more engine braking than low rpm. I only tested one car though, but it should be the same for all.

 

[Cosbuster]

Perhaps your grandma..!

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

I just tested that in GT5 and it's there. High rpm gives more engine braking than low rpm. I only tested one car though, but it should be the same for all.

It is merely a novelty item in GT5. The engine breaking isn't even near what it should be and you don't have any control for the throttle when shifting down so the whole purpose of gaining an advantage when braking remains out of reach. If you have experienced the effect somewhere else you know what I am fuzzing about.

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Perhaps your grandma..!

My grandparents have died long ago.

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[fifomaniak]

It is merely a novelty item in GT5. The engine breaking isn't even near what it should be and you don't have any control for the throttle when shifting down so the whole purpose of gaining an advantage when braking remains out of reach. If you have experienced the effect somewhere else you know what I am fuzzing about.

RattijuoppoFIN

You say you don't have G25/G27. I can see that. In real car if you dump the clutch while downshifting you'll feel that the car is braking. If you'd have a wheel with clutch for GT5, you'd feel the same effect. Thing is, if you don't have a clutch, every downshift is perfect and very quick so you don't feel the effect of braking, but it's there. If you're a good driver in real life and release the clutch smoothly with rev matching between changes, it can also be nearly seamless.

 

[eran0004]

It is merely a novelty item in GT5. The engine breaking isn't even near what it should be and you don't have any control for the throttle when shifting down so the whole purpose of gaining an advantage when braking remains out of reach. If you have experienced the effect somewhere else you know what I am fuzzing about.

RattijuoppoFIN

It's probably too weak, but the implications during braking would still be rather limited. You can only brake so hard before you lock up the wheels anyway and engine braking does not give you more traction. For a rear wheel drive car with front brake bias it could be a way to control additional braking power to the rear tyres, but that's about it.

 

[carracerptp]

Engine breaking in GT5 is limited thanks to a very force full auto clutch. Still, in real life engine braking is more of a bad thing than a "I can stop quicker" thing.

If you have a wheel with a clutch I "think" you can sort get disable it but at some point it won't get in gear.

 

[skylinevspecII]

You say you don't have G25/G27. I can see that. In real car if you dump the clutch while downshifting you'll feel that the car is braking. If you'd have a wheel with clutch for GT5, you'd feel the same effect. Thing is, if you don't have a clutch, every downshift is perfect and very quick so you don't feel the effect of braking, but it's there. If you're a good driver in real life and release the clutch smoothly with rev matching between changes, it can also be nearly seamless.

This guy knows what he's talking about. The engine braking is there, but if you are not using a clutch you won't feel it as aggressively. Anyways, a proper rev-match will lighten the effect of the engine braking because you should not dump a clutch during a downshift, you could lock up the rear and go ape****!

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

You say you don't have G25/G27. I can see that.

That's just it! It can't be just exclusive to the G25/G27.

Engine breaking in GT5 is limited thanks to a very force full auto clutch. Still, in real life engine braking is more of a bad thing than a "I can stop quicker" thing.

So to be clear, you say that in a RACE CAR in REAL LIFE engine braking is a bad thing? You must mean only in city-driving?

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Sorry. Accidental double post. Ignore.

 

[CJSpencer77]

Anyways, a proper rev-match will lighten the effect of the engine braking because you should not dump a clutch during a downshift, you could lock up the rear and go ape****!

Turn ABS to 0 , then down shift really quickly and see what happens, the rears will lock up and spin you round quick. Its the ABS in GT5 that stops this happening.

 

[SavageEvil]

Also Kaz needs to introduce clutch button for DS users so they too can experience lock up and rev matching instead of that dead throttle input that happens when you shift using a DS.

 

[carracerptp]

So to be clear, you say that in a RACE CAR in REAL LIFE engine braking is a bad thing? You must mean only in city-driving?

RattijuoppoFIN

Brakes are for stoping. They do most of the work. That why people "rev" match downshifts.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

Brakes are for stoping. They do most of the work. That why people "rev" match downshifts.

Yes but in racing the car will take a greater amount of length to stop without engine braking (blipping the throttle ahile downshifting).

RattijuoppoFIN

 

[eran0004]

Yes but in racing the car will take a greater amount of length to stop without engine braking (blipping the throttle ahile downshifting).

RattijuoppoFIN

It's only useful if you've got bad brakes. Or during driving when you don't want to use the brakes for whatever reason (like if you're going down a long hill).

Go to 1:45.

 

[carracerptp]

Yes but in racing the car will take a greater amount of length to stop without engine braking (blipping the throttle ahile downshifting).

RattijuoppoFIN

Like eran0004 said, if you have bad brakes, want to save (or cool) your brakes, or something broke, engine braking is helpful.

Even in a non-race car, most modern vehicles can lock all 4 wheels up at 60MPH with brakes only (ABS disabled). Why bother with the engine?

Ironically I use engine braking in GT5 as a real time "brake bias" adjustment. And with ABS off it really helps in some cases.

 

[eran0004]

Just did another engine braking test (this thread has already gone off-topic, so...).

Took my trustworthy Peugeot 106 S16 down that long hill at Eiger K Trail. No brakes, no accelerator.

The first attempt was with the clutch disengaged. Needless to say the car quickly reached speeds of 160-170 km/h and crashed hard.

The second attempt was in 1st gear with the clutch engaged, the car accelerated much slower and the engine kept the car at between 50-70 km/h, at the most extreme drop it reached 80 km/h. I made it safely down the mountain without touching the brakes.

 

[niky]

Yes but in racing the car will take a greater amount of length to stop without engine braking (blipping the throttle ahile downshifting).

RattijuoppoFIN

From experience in most modern cars? No. No it won't. And we've done instrumented tests that prove it.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

I can't believe what I am reading. This is rolling way out of topic, but I have to correct this anyway. Honestly without any offence, anyone that believes that engine braking doesn't have an effect in braking is wrong. If it had not no racing driver would ever blip that throttle while downshifting.

The purpose for engine braking is for the motor to resist the circulating movement of the differential thus avoiding rear wheels to lock and shorten the braking distance also somewhat.

I am not saying that revving the life out of the engine is needed or worthy, just that some engine braking is needed for any modern or ancient race car. Otherwise no driver would ever go down all the gears.

The same effect can be used with a normal road going vehicle,
even while it is not particially usefull, though the effect is lessened somewhat.