Grip Levels- Do they differ? (Answer- Shame on PD)

[nd 4 holden spd]

OK, so as I have said in the past I have been wondering if grip levels of the track surface differ from track to track, and if they differ whether you are on the rubber racing line or not. (where there is rubber, there should theoretically be more grip). It's something that we've never tested to my knowledge if PD models. So fairly soon I will begin tests to see if the grip levels do differ, and if they do I might post a list of the grippiest tracks to the tracks with the least grip.

Edit: I have found that the levels do not differ from track to track, or on racing line or not. My test car got the exact same numbers (lateral Gs, and 0-100km/hr times) at every track I went to, so if you feel the grip levels differ, it's all in your mind. (PD should have incuded this- tracks IRL are rarely the same surface and often provide different grip levels).

 

[Famine]

OK, so as I have said in the past I have been wondering if grip levels of the track surface differ from track to track, and if they differ whether you are on the rubber racing line or not. (where there is rubber, there should theoretically be more grip). It's something that we've never tested to my knowledge if PD models. So fairly soon I will begin tests to see if the grip levels do differ, and if they do I might post a list of the grippiest tracks to the tracks with the least grip.

That's great and all, but how are you going to quantitatively measure grip levels?

 

[Beerz]

I'm also curious about that.

Though if you have found a way of doing it, it's surely great info.

 

[Greycap]

I suspect something along the lines of taking corners at a certain speed and seeing how many G's the car can pull or standing starts seeing how much wheelspin there is.

The problem with these tests would be the inconsistency of the testing areas, ie. the camber of the corners, uphill/downhill, car still being slöightly upset from the previous corner.

 

[daan]

And why didn't you wait until you've actually done it? This way you're going to have loads of posts inbetween the first post and your findings.

 

[AOS-]

or you can get a 2nd buddy to help you, get a light torquey LM and a massive car make the truck pulls the e brakes a hold the brakes. racer will push against this load until whenever, meaning this should be done on your time, not the game's clock.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I shall use 0-100km/hr times on the flattest parts of each track, and pulling g's on some corners with the most similar camber may come into it. I'm doing my best to take out driver error and begginning today/now. First all I have to find is if they differ at all, if they don't the tests won't be needed.

Edit: Answer posted in 1st post. This thread hasn't been a complete waste though, people can now search and find that they don't change in the future.

 

[VTiRoj]

Damn, so its just all in my mind?

At least we know for sure now, thanks nd 4 holden spd. 👍

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

You're welcome. I wonder how many are actually thinking what a git I am

 

[Duke]

Anything tested scientifically is good info, even if the results are negative.

👍

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Thanks Duke, coming from a mod that's really good to hear. 👍
It really is a shame they didn't model it though. Watching V8 Supercars in Bahrain really tells me how much of a difference track surface can make.

 

[daan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...Road_surfaces_and_covers_that_affect_handling

The far right of the table shows that, apart from the unknowns, GTR is the only sim that recreates the "marbles" effect. (GTR2 has a ? next to it, but I would presume it does it too.)

 

[opelgt1969]

Did your test include the Paris track as it seems to eat tires up. Try putting softest racing tires on the car and drive each track and see how many miles it takes before the tires start to turn yellow.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I never knew it was called the "marbles effect", but that's an interesting wiki page. I noticed that Gran Turismo isn't on there (they must be PC games), and none of the games have "hail" as a weather option No one would race in hail, people would literally die hitting hail stones at those speeds and coming through the windscreen.

Edit: opelgt, I'm quite sure that's because of the bumpy nature of that track, and the technicality of it.

 

[daan]

Marbles.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

No pic, just a red cross. Is this going to be when sand and dirt is spread across the track making it slippery?
(I watch the mad bugger V8 Supercars, I know all about that effect )

 

[daan]

No pic, just a red cross. Is this going to be when sand and dirt is spread across the track making it slippery?

I've put it on imageshack.

Marbles are the bits of rubber that come of the tyres and congregate off the racing line, usually on the outside of corners. When a car runs wide and hits them, it just slides along the top and runs even wider. It then takes a few corners for the tyres to be cleaned up again.

 

[Beerz]

But I've also noticed some drivers, on various types of races, trying to 'pick them up', mostly when their tyres are already pretty worn out, in what I've always assumed is an attempt to re-rubber the tyres a bit so they don't blow as fast.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

[daan]

But I've also noticed some drivers, on various types of races, trying to 'pick them up', mostly when their tyres are already pretty worn out, in what I've always assumed is an attempt to re-rubber the tyres a bit so they don't blow as fast.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Drivers deliberately drive over them on their slowing down lap after the race has finished to a) gain weight to the car in case it gets a DQ for being to light and b) to gain height it case it gets a DQ for being to low.

They wouldn't deliberately drive over them while the race is on.

 

[AOS-]

and a DQ is..?

 

[Loon]

DisQualified or DisQualification.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I've put it on imageshack.

Marbles are the bits of rubber that come of the tyres and congregate off the racing line, usually on the outside of corners. When a car runs wide and hits them, it just slides along the top and runs even wider. It then takes a few corners for the tyres to be cleaned up again.

Yeah, I kind of knew about that stuff. Different to what I was testing here though

 

[Parnelli Bone]

This is a good point....and surely possible to program grip differences in surfaces on tarmac. Too bad this isn't done in GT, huh?

I know for off-road racing (in GT4) that typically the best area for speed will be down the center of the track. The sides aren't paved as smoothly and you'll slow if you happen to veer to one side or another.

 

[greenlightning]

This would be nice to have. If they did this they should be able to account for sand, dirt, grass and other items being on the track. TOCA did an okay job with going off track except perhaps to much of an effect on traction of the tires. Track temp. would also be a factor.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Here's to hoping for GT5 to have programmed grip levels for different tracks.

 

[Megasoft Office]

An interesting study, I'd say. But whether the impact is significant for road cars, or whether it isn't, I think oil/water temperatures would be a nicer and more influential feature to have in the next installment. But simulating these grip conditions would also need to be extended to the unique surface condition in wet weather, and I'm unsure of whether Polyphony Digital will reach that far for accuracy in track behviour under the rain.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I doubt many tracks will have rain in GT5, just like only 1 has it in GT4, and the track is so boring nobody drives it much.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

An interesting study, I'd say. But whether the impact is significant for road cars, or whether it isn't, I think oil/water temperatures would be a nicer and more influential feature to have in the next installment. But simulating these grip conditions would also need to be extended to the unique surface condition in wet weather, and I'm unsure of whether Polyphony Digital will reach that far for accuracy in track behviour under the rain.

And yet, we don't care about tire temp readings at all, do we?

Give me tire temps. Makes it a bit easier to tune...

 

[VTiRoj]

I doubt many tracks will have rain in GT5, just like only 1 has it in GT4, and the track is so boring nobody drives it much.

I much prefered SSR5 Wet on GT3, bring it back PD!

Wet Nurburgring would be fun.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The problem with wet racing in GT is that it's not random. We go into the few rain-soaked races with the attitude that we'll need to be cautious before we start driving because the track is pre-programmed to be wet. That's not how real-life is.

I really think PD dropped the ball on this topic. They develop wet-track technology in the game, but there's hardly any races in which you get to do this....and then I think there's not even the usual 6 cars you'd normally find in dry tarmac racing!

It would be awesome if you could start a Gt race, get things going, but then have to re-think your strategy because it's raining.