Grip Problems...

[Jpec07]

Ok, I am trying to tune a Japanese FR car (they all have this problem), and no matter what I do the car loses grip in the high-end of the first 3 gears. Also, they lose grip on the front tires when they get to speeds around 145+MPH, which I thought I might include (seeing as how that may affect the last problem I have with it). The cars lose handling ability when you reach high 5th and all of 6th gear (meaning the car wants to go straight...). Does anyone have any idea how I would fix this?

 

[miata13B]

Let me guess, an S2000 probably the V type too and your losing it on the first strech of Midfield reverse right. You hit that bump and then you lose all braking problems and it drifts a little. . . Ok, lower your rebound to a 8 or a 7. This will induce a little oversteer, but it will lessen the bounce you get. Then add a little more rear camber to the car also a little positive toe to the rear and a slight hint of negative in the front. Also mess around with the stabs a little.

 

[Jpec07]

Not justthe S2000 (I hate that car), I'm talking about the Silvia 240SX Aero type...

 

[miata13B]

same rules apply. I tried out that car too Jpec, and came to the conclusion that it won't be a front runner but it has promise. I would take that 2k out for a spin at least.

 

[kap]

whenever i give power upgrades to fr cars(b class-silvia, fc3s, etc-), the car is impossible to launch, and just goes out of control. i think its because it goes out of balance, and i dont know how to tune good.

 

[Duke]

Well, just like in real life, you can't leave the line at full throttle or you'll smoke the tires. With the way the timed start works, you can lean the car on the rev limiter and the time clock effectively dumps the clutch out as soon as the tree hits bottom. With a powerful car, even RWD, it will light up the tires immediately.

I bet you're using the X button for throttle? If so, try switching to the right analog stick. That makes it easier to feather the throttle and get smoother launches. Also, I tend not to rev the car up while waiting for the tree: instead, I let it idle, and as the "1" drops to "0", I push the stick forward. This brings the car up through the power band with less wheelspin rather than overwhelming the tires.

For FWD cars, I also frequently launch in second gear. It's not as good as a well-controlled first gear launch, but it's better than a lot of wheelspin if you're having throttle control problems.

Welcome to GTP, kap!

 

[Jpec07]

that seems like a good idea, but changing my driving habits overnight is an impossibility. Would turning the ASM up to about 3 help this predicament at all (I mean, I can change it so I'm not forcing the throttle 100% through the end of the corner, but usually that ends up losing me time...)

 

[Duke]

I usually find that setting TCS to 1 is enough to help. On high-HP cars I may go to 2, but rarely. I always run with ASM at zero because I found that it just makes understeer.

If you don't have time to get used to the analog stick right now, try pulsing the throttle as you dig out of a corner or off the line. But I would practice the stick if I were you. It didn't take me too long to convert.

 

[Jpec07]

what do I do about the lack of control at high speeds due to weight shift?

 

[pmo5e6]

I am sorry that you couldn't handle a 240
but yes it is a front runner
I can do consistant 1:21 at Laguna Seca
and I am certain that I can get down to at least 1:20
because I am racing with a totally screwed up set of supension settings

 

[MilleniumHand]

that doesn't help him though, now does it?

well, have you tried loosening up the front spring rate? These low displacement japanese sports cars handle closer to a mid engined car than than they do to a car with a bigass iron v8.

don't know what's causing the problem in your car as you didn't post settings, but I'll throw you down a set of mine that seem to work. Assuming these don't help, would you post your setup, as it sits, I don't know how you do your tuning.

silvia spec R aero (oopsie wrong car)

Spring rate
F: 5.9
R: 8.3
Ride height
F: 102
R: 104
Shock bound
F: 4
R: 5
Shock rebound
F: 7
R: 3
Camber
F: 2.4
R: 1.3
Toe
F: -1.0
R: -1.0
Stabilzers
F: 4
R: 3

Brakes
F: 10
R: 15

LSD
Init. tourque: 25
Accel: 21
Decel: 33

::edit:: that's what i get for not looking at the first post date::

 

[pmo5e6]

The reason why I didn't post my settings yet is because I am not satisfied with the performance

I need to make the car "stick" even more to get better times. Once that happens I might post the settings but right now I am only getting 1:21 at Laguna. I know I can do a lot better. At least a second better.

your settings are for a 240 also?

they seem interesting, are you doing 1:20's at Laguna Seca with that setup?

-Paul

Also, anyone who disreguards a 240sx and then goes on to say that a S2000 is a more capable sports car needs to stop drifting around like an idiot and realize the true potential of a grip 240sx.

even in stock form, my REAL 1993 240sx will destroy most new cars on a road course. Drifting is fun, and the 240 is good for drifting, but I think it is just as capable of a real racing platform.

 

[Jpec07]

Heh, thanks for all the help guys. This particular part of the forum is rather slow, but I would very much like to get to the bottom of this setup crisis of mine. I will make an effort to post up my setup soon.

 

[pmo5e6]

your Settings on a 240sx are awsome
I was able to do 1:21.5 at Laguna Seca after 2 laps (1 warmup and 1 final lap)

so yes your settings work well. The only problem is that you camber and your toe settings are hurting your exit acceleration speeds.

I will see what I can do

but my previous set up I was using about 12 kg in front 13.5 in the rear as my suppension settings

so, my suppension was much harder, but I was only running 1.0 camber in front .5 in the rear

and NO toe. But like I said, I was doing really well, I got a 1:21.6 with my setup, then I changed it with out writing down what it was and my times got worse. And so far I haven't been able to return to general setup. Also I have been distracted by winning too many races with your setup

I was able to win all the FR challenges (GOLD) on Professional with my 240sx, and also the All german Championship on Professonal. Of course I had already won a great deal of the races with my previous set up as well.

I am going to see what I can do to keep your crips turnin and reduce the chamber and toe on your setup millenium hand
I believe that it should be possible to increase the spring rates proportionally and then adjust the bounds and rebounds slightly. Thus neccessitating less camber and/or toe

-Paul

 

[MMMPWR]

Try these settings if your still have problems with an FR Car.

Spring Rate: 16.8F 15.8R
Ride Height: Low as possible
Shock Bound: 4F 3R
Shock Rebound 4F 3R
Camber: 2.5F 1.5R
Toe: 0F .5R
Swaybar (stabalizers): 5F 4R
Brakes: 24F 20R

LSD Initial Tourque: 0F 15R
LSD Accel: 0F 44R
LSD Deaccel: 0F 22R
Downforce: Maxed out (for road courses)
ASM: 10-11
TCS Controller: 5-7

That should fix all your problems, if not what car is it? Ill see if i can make it work.

 

[Jpec07]

I don't like that setup for several reasons (just upon primary inspection and without even trying it out).
- ASM should always be off; no ifs, ands, or buts
- TCS is too high; maximum I've ever used is 4
you never slam a car into the ground as it reduces the amount of room the springs have to move (on high-set cars lowering is fine, just don't make sparks...)
- Your spring rates are a bit high,but that's probably just my opinion
- LSD I like to have near the bottom; helps to level out the car's handling problems if there are any (but you do have a good proportion going for if they do need tuning).
- I never max out df on both front and rear as it usually creates stability problems (I have been told that I turn too hard).
Aside from that your setup looks like it's worth a try, but I am way past this series and can't remember which memory card I have that car in particular saved on.

 

[Slicks]

Ummm, just wondering, but Jpec07 - do you have sticky rubber, or stock tires? Because as you may know, tires make quite a difference.

 

[Jpec07]

umm, I was running T8s and T7s. I do know about how tires affect grip, and this ages-old thread is now closed.