Group 1 BoP Test by Windfire1010

[Windfire1010]

Lets find out how big of a mess Group 1 is. This test will be using four different tracks to find all the strengths and weaknesses of all the cars. I will be testing fuel usage at Fuji Speedway over a 7 laps run with 7 times fuel rate. I will have a google docs sheet with all the cars results on it.

Autodrome Lago Maggiore – Center: A test of pure mechanical grip

Willow Springs International Raceway: Big Willow: High speed cornering ability

Alsace – Village: How well the car handles elevation changes.

Autodrome Nazionale Monza: Straight line performance

Fuji International Speedway: Balanced track

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

The Group C cars are very hard to tell apart. They all drive okay, but you really notice the lack of downforce these cars have. You also have to be careful with your right foot with these cars. The only thing these cars have are their superior straight line performance.

The sheet with all of the current times.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Lion-Face]

This will be interesting, thank you. Am wondering why no La Sarthe track as I feel the gr1 cars have been more balanced around that track than any other?

Also, you have a few total times stated in 3mins rather than 5 mins

 

[Windfire1010]

This will be interesting, thank you. Am wondering why no La Sarthe track as I feel the gr1 cars have been more balanced around that track than any other?

Also, you have a few total times stated in 3mins rather than 5 mins

Thanks for catching that for me would have never noticed. I found that Monza with the first chicane is a very good Le Sarthe substitute.

 

[Windfire1010]

This is car that has no bad habits. No big understeer or oversteer, and it turns well. What it does have is unbelievable fuel economy. I will be surprised if anything gets close.

The sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[TonyJZX]

Just completed the Fuji 30 lap endurance.... used the old 2016 R18 again.... I have most of the Gr.1 cars except for the VGTs but I keep coming back to the McLaren and the R18.

For some reason the Porsche 919 just feels a bit 'off' to me... maybe the 4wd?

 

[Windfire1010]

It is just a Peugeot 908 that is better at high speed corners for the trade of of less power.

The sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

This car would be better if it was not a hybrid. It just makes it harder to put the power down out of the slow corners. You also have to contend with disappointing straight lie speed.

The sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Should use Monza without the first chicane as that would show the strength of the Group C cars compared to the LMP1-H and VGTs. Monza even with the chicane is far too short a straight to show the top speed deficit other cars have compared to Group C.

Case in point, the daily race 2 weeks ago at La Sarthe non chicane - if you're not in the R92CP, you're running an entirely different race.

 

[Windfire1010]

Should use Monza without the first chicane as that would show the strength of the Group C cars compared to the LMP1-H and VGTs. Monza even with the chicane is far too short a straight to show the top speed deficit other cars have compared to Group C.

Case in point, the daily race 2 weeks ago at La Sarthe non chicane - if you're not in the R92CP, you're running an entirely different race.

That is true, but the point of this test is really to see the strengths and weaknesses of all the cars. You can see the almighty straight line speed of the group c cars even with the straights at Monza.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

That is true, but the point of this test is really to see the strengths and weaknesses of all the cars. You can see the almighty straight line speed of the group c cars even with the straights at Monza.

My point is the BOP tests are to see if there are any cars that needs balancing. In that respect, the Group C cars are fast where huge straights are involved and rubbish everywhere else (relative to the newer cars). Monza No Chicane gives a clearer picture of that difference, just like the La Sarthe event a few weeks ago did. Whereas if you use Monza Chicane, then the difference will not be as big.

 

[JayOTT]

I think Monza with the chicane is good for this. The BoP should be set around tracks that are actually used in racing, and the no chicane versions of Monza and Le Mans aren't that. If PD has to resort to these variations just to make Group C the meta, that shows that there's an issue with the Group C BoP that might not be fixable. They are already the fastest cars in the speed traps, so short of adding Le Mans to the BoP test (which makes the test difficult because it's a long lap), I think this selection of tracks is fine.

 

[Windfire1010]

This car has unbelievably amazing cornering ability at high speed. I don't think any group 1 car can flat last corner at Willow Springs. Unfortunately at slow speed the car is terrible. You can not put the power down and it has terrible understeer. I don't think any can be done to this car. to make it more competitive at a normal race track.

The sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I think Monza with the chicane is good for this. The BoP should be set around tracks that are actually used in racing, and the no chicane versions of Monza and Le Mans aren't that. If PD has to resort to these variations just to make Group C the meta, that shows that there's an issue with the Group C BoP that might not be fixable. They are already the fastest cars in the speed traps, so short of adding Le Mans to the BoP test (which makes the test difficult because it's a long lap), I think this selection of tracks is fine.

Well that's my point! Just a few short weeks ago there was a Daily C event that uses La Sarthe No Chicanes and the R92CP basically ran away from everyone (if the drivers are equal skills). The problem wasn't even the power/weight figures, but the R92CP was just geared longer than every other car. All the hybrids were hitting the limiter at 340 kmh, the VGTs at 350-360 kmh, the other Group C at 370 kmh but the R92CP alone could crest 378 kmh if my memory is correct. So even though the BOP works in the twisty bits, it all falls apart on the long straight because of PD's incompetence at tuning gearboxes.

Maybe if Windfire doesn't want to include Sarthe laptime comparison, he could just list the exact top speeds of each car and you'll see how lopsided it is.

 

[Windfire1010]

Well that's my point! Just a few short weeks ago there was a Daily C event that uses La Sarthe No Chicanes and the R92CP basically ran away from everyone (if the drivers are equal skills). The problem wasn't even the power/weight figures, but the R92CP was just geared longer than every other car. All the hybrids were hitting the limiter at 340 kmh, the VGTs at 350-360 kmh, the other Group C at 370 kmh but the R92CP alone could crest 378 kmh if my memory is correct. So even though the BOP works in the twisty bits, it all falls apart on the long straight because of PD's incompetence at tuning gearboxes.

Maybe if Windfire doesn't want to include Sarthe laptime comparison, he could just list the exact top speeds of each car and you'll see how lopsided it is.

I do put speed trap numbers for all the cars on my chart. I might do a run at Special Stage Route X to find the cars ultimate top speed.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I do put speed trap numbers for all the cars on my chart. I might do a run at Special Stage Route X to find the cars ultimate top speed.

Didn't see that, thanks for bringing to my attention. Speed trap just at the end of the longest straight isn't enough though. To know what I mean you really need to find the true absolute top speed at which the car hits the limiter.

I know this situation doesn't come up very often but I just thought it would be nice to highlight how lopsided the Gr.1 BOP is when HUGE straights are involved.

 

[Windfire1010]

Didn't see that, thanks for bringing to my attention. Speed trap just at the end of the longest straight isn't enough though. To know what I mean you really need to find the true absolute top speed at which the car hits the limiter.

I know this situation doesn't come up very often but I just thought it would be nice to highlight how lopsided the Gr.1 BOP is when HUGE straights are involved.

I added a another column for top speed if the car is given enough space.

 

[Windfire1010]

This car keeps running out of hybrid power. The rear of the car is not very stable. I had more trouble under power with this than the group C cars. Once you learn how to drive it it is very fast.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

The Porsche does not seem to run out of hybrid like the Audi does. The car has a better turn in than the Audi R18 '16 and a more secure rear end. It is noticeably slower when it does not have hybrid power to use than the Audi.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

The TS050 really does not have anything going for it. It is just a worse version of the Porsche 919 Hybrid.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

This car can't handle all of the hybrid power. At low speed the power is just being spun away. The car has very good high speed handling characteristics, but terrible low speed ability. I would avoid this car even though it is pretty fast.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

Another car I would advise to avoid. Has nothing going for it. The McLaren Ultimate refuses to rotate, and then when it finally rotates it over rotates. The rear of the car is just to soft.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

Finally another car I would recommend to drive. This car has high speed understeer, but is very good in the slow stuff. Also has great acceleration and top speed.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

The Bugatti VGT drives very well. It is very good in the very fast corners due to very high downforce levels. The permanent four wheel drives makes it very good coming of slow corners. Unfortunately in its curent state it just does not have enough horsepower to compete with the really fast cars.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[Windfire1010]

The Hyundai N 2025 is a very fast car, though it has some problems. It's braking performance leaves a lot to be desired. In every brake zone it is a struggle to keep the car going in a straight line. It also has a little to much understeer while under power for my liking.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[serlemke]

That's true about the The Hyundai N 2025, I flew may times away on the Indianapolis at Le Mans.

 

[Windfire1010]

The Mazda LM55 VGT is just a better version of the Hyundai. It is much more stable under the brakes, faster in a straight line, more fuel efficient, and is better on its tires.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.

 

[TonyJZX]

This is a great thread. However it does reinforce that notion that you "go to war with the weapons you have, not the weapons you want".

For the longest time I only had the Audi R18 2016 and the McLaren VGT due to DWG and these do it all... the McLaren is the top speed VMAX king.

930hp and that 2,000lb means and the gearing means its great for say Tokyo Express.

The 525hp R18 is great for any kind of normal racetrack however is hampered by the poor top speed.

However I work around their faults... the VGT I think has changed its handling about 3 times due to the new tyre model and what not. I did not personally find it as unstable as the OP here. It was diabolical in its 1st iteration but subsequent updates made it less violent handling.

The R18 I concur with the OP... because it funnels 525 diesel hp and 450 electric hp thru the back wheels you do need to be careful. I can drive TCS0 but will use 1 or TCS2 on odd occasions.

I have bought all the LMP machines and have some of the VGT Gr.1 cars but really dont have enough track time in any of them bar the two above to appreciate what they're about.

I feel like the normal LMP and VGT cars dont stand a chance on a normal track if you're facing an LMP-H? The electric power and regenerative brakes should be the trump card that wins the race?

 

[serlemke]

Off topic:
This effect on the tire brand(seen on the mazda), like it rolls forwards, and backwards and slow - useless effort to implement this.
This effect only happens on cameras.

Cameras open and close capture very fast, so in one 'blink' to the other then the other (.........) it captures on tire point, closes, opens again - on that small time-frame the tire did a the full circle and a little more, so in the camera it looks that the tire just went a little more, this in a very fast pace makes sometimes the tire look slow or even backwards. - captured frames.

To the human eye this is not true, if on real life look a that tire you will see only a continuously withe stripe.
So they implemented how it looks trow a camera and not human eye.

Done with the off-topic. - Maybe this one could become a topic itself, its pretty curious nerdish :-)

Reference:

 

[Windfire1010]

The Alpine is FAST. As long as the corner is not to slow the cars rear engine layout is excellent. The car has excellent turn in and excellent high speed corning. The car is pretty unstable at long speed unfortunately.

Here is the sheet.
The tabs on the bottom have all the sector times. Green is fastest of all red is slowest of all.