GT and past controversies

[piengoo]

Deleted

 

[Nakano219]

It's not more controversial that the Standard cars debate in GT5, nor the change in franchise direction and subsequent U-turn of early GT Sport. Both of those are wider talking points that people still bring up, and that still shape PD decision making today. The internet was less prevalent back then, but if it was released today, I'd bet the buggy state of GT2's rushed American launch would also be on that list.

Beyond the day 1 economy grind, and that one update that bricked the game, I wouldn't call GT7 "controversial" at all. Disappointing to some? Absolutely. But it's a very much a game with a solid wider reputation, if you go on more general gaming forums you generally don't hear that much negative about it.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

I don't see how GT7 can be considered controversial at all.

You have to consider that if you have an issue with something in the game, you can come online to complain about it and in doing so, you may find other people with similar complaints. At that point, it's easy to perceive the issue as much larger than it is, as it's no longer just an issue for you, it's now an issue for you and the other people. But you and the other people could easily still be less than 5% of the total player base for the game. That's a vocal minority.

Flip it and find something that upsets 95% of the player base and makes them complain, and you have a point of controversy.

GT7 may have some poor design choices, and may not be the best entry in the franchise for some, but that isn't a controversy.

 

[eran0004]

...at the point that people started asking for Kaz to step down from his role....

The threshold for asking that has historically been pretty low though, it's not a sign that a game is particularly controversial.

 

[Force-Feedback]

Everyone likes and dislikes a part of GT7 in their own way, as mentioned, the word 'controversial' doesn't quite fit the situation.

When you look deep down into it, the driving physics are satisfying to use, the graphics actually contain more little details than you'd thing, the models are held to a high quality standard and the sound is massively improved over older games in the series.

(a great example of 'little details' PD put in is when you fully lightweight mod a road car, the car has a tinny 'hollow' noise filter on the interior view, denoting that the sound deadening has been removed to make the car lighter.)

As a core driving sandbox it's actually their best one yet! The main difference is that they've nailed what other companies struggle to do at its core but PD have messed up the 'game' part of GT7, which is one of the things that bothers me. Another are design choices that don't make sense or they fail to put in features that made the older games great.

It's not so much wanting Kaz to step down, his personal history is one of constant renewal and fresh starts, which is why one of the biggest parts to let down the 'campaign' is for example how linear it is, and how every GT game feels quite different. You start with a choice of only 3 cars, then you collect the rest in the following two races, then you get another car and then have to win the other two. Older and more favoured GT's had a wider selection of cars available in the used car market that you can choose yourself. So it's rarer for people to play through the game exactly the same way. Almost all of the races in GT7 are the 'catch the rabbit' formula of starting half a lap down behind the leader and you have only a few laps to catch up, no qualifying, rare grid starts. There are a couple of races that are ok but they weren't apart of the main 'campaign' and are hidden away, plus there's a custom race mode but setting it all up yourself is tedious (plus no qualifying anyway).

My point is, Kaz stepping down wont solve things overnight, but either himself or someone needs to put some effort and direction to make a game like GT8 actually good, to focus on a campaign with a structure that makes sense, have harder events locked behind licences thus not making licences useless for example.

If they keep making dumb design choices in the future, then the game itself wouldn't exactly be controversial, but maybe keeping the ideologues in charge could be seen as another story, especially if the series starts to struggle.

 

[GlamFM]

I think it’s peak GT and people asking for Kaz’s resignation can get lost.

Could it be better? - always.

Is it still fantastic? - yes.

 

[hawkeyez]

I’m not sure Kaz is the reason we still don’t have a customizable HUD, we can’t share tunes, they keep changing the physics. Or maybe he is, who knows.

Seriously we’re three years into the game and they’re still mucking about with the physics? Funny because they bragged up their physics from day one yet here we are with something else. PD always pumps their own tires. I remember GT5 and GT6 sounds really not being good compared to other games but I’m sure they talked about how good the sounds were then.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

My point is, Kaz stepping down wont solve things overnight, but either himself or someone needs to put some effort and direction to make a game like GT8 actually good, to focus on a campaign with a structure that makes sense, have harder events locked behind licences thus not making licences useless for example.

But this isn't what Kaz wants from Gran Turismo, and why I don't think there should be a Gran Turismo if he isn't at the helm.

Sure I'd really like a structured campaign like the early GT games, where we have to do 5-10 race championships that require specific licenses to access, but that would make Gran Turismo like a lot of other track racers.

Kaz has been clear from the start that his passion is the cars, that the games are about the cars, so he removed barriers like license tests, removed championships so you can just race on whatever track you wanted to, how and in what you wanted to. The races aren't the focus for him, the cars are, which coincidentally is why we keep getting mundane cars in updates.

If Kaz were removed from Gran Turismo and the format from the earlier games reinstated, you'd end up with a more generic simcade racer. It's that focus on the cars and being able to use them how we want, race them where we want etc that makes Gran Turismo different.

 

[Lightpilgrim]

I read posts like this and I do not know people want or need. Lets say some purchased this game in 2022 for 70-80$. This game is constantly alive and updated and it will be the case till 2027 when GT8 will launch. So 5 years with the game for 70$. Take EA’s F1. Life cycle of this game is from July till Dec, it is poor dev quality and it costs 80$. But you will spend 400$ in 5 years and the quality of the game is nothing like GT7.

What you do not like?

After watching all the discussions about GT7, with a lot of people saying how it didn't meet expectations, discussions about its single player mode and game economy that still go on (from what i read here) even 3 years (!!!) after launch, at the point that people started asking for Kaz to step down from his role.... Do you think GT7 is the most controversial title of the franchise?
And if not, which title was it for you?

Just curious to hear your opinions on this topic.

 

[jrbabbitt]

people started asking for Kaz to step down from his role....

The moment that this happens Gran Turismo will never be as good as it it now, it will get worse, the quality will suffer, updates will stop, and it just will not be good anymore...

 

[equalitus]

After watching all the discussions about GT7, with a lot of people saying how it didn't meet expectations, discussions about its single player mode and game economy that still go on (from what i read here) even 3 years (!!!) after launch, at the point that people started asking for Kaz to step down from his role.... Do you think GT7 is the most controversial title of the franchise?
And if not, which title was it for you?

Just curious to hear your opinions on this topic.

Kaz quote: "Somewhere down the line it became this thing where it being difficult to drive is realistic, and that’s not true at all."
Too many cars are still too difficult to drive on a pad, but fixing the extreme tire wear and reducing grip loss when at 20%-30% left is not difficult it's a design choice.
I think GT5 was the most controversial because experience level [barrier] for buying cars and participating in races increased exponentially, while experience points gained by racing, increased only linearly and was increasingly difficult because the only way was doing the same races many more times..!! Unless we got the GT5 editor which I did & it saved my GT5 fun.

GT6 only had two big problems, the sound of some cars, and the PP limits+tire limits eligibility for racing an event. This can be solved by either the custom [hacked] spec II or something similar.

I guess it is 50% chance that if Kaz steps down we'll get more & better options&choices in single player part of GT7. I'm willing to take that chance.
The cars are the greatest in GT7 but the single player experience isn't, and all it takes is a few hours of coding so that we can change everything including which cars to race against + few months of training AI Sophy on all tracks including endurance races.

 

[Force-Feedback]

But this isn't what Kaz wants from Gran Turismo, and why I don't think there should be a Gran Turismo if he isn't at the helm.

Sure I'd really like a structured campaign like the early GT games, where we have to do 5-10 race championships that require specific licenses to access, but that would make Gran Turismo like a lot of other track racers.

Kaz has been clear from the start that his passion is the cars, that the games are about the cars, so he removed barriers like license tests, removed championships so you can just race on whatever track you wanted to, how and in what you wanted to. The races aren't the focus for him, the cars are, which coincidentally is why we keep getting mundane cars in updates.

If Kaz were removed from Gran Turismo and the format from the earlier games reinstated, you'd end up with a more generic simcade racer. It's that focus on the cars and being able to use them how we want, race them where we want etc that makes Gran Turismo different.

About the race structure, I didn't mean to SOLELY be championships like its Project Cars 2 (for example), but to have events that would help the 'sandbox' side of the game later on. Have things for people to strive towards. Why have licence tests in when they can just be called 'challenges' or 'special missions'?

As I did say, it's NOT having him removed, it's the part about having him (or someone) keep in a GT game, things that we can do on top of what we can call the 'sandbox' part of the game. After the campaign is 'completed' and unlocked, we can (and I still do) come back to the game and get a car and try something different with it, or just go for a drive.

But even in the old games it wasn't so much about beating the game but finding what I'd like to do on those games, single events, driving, whatever. If they added the right set of events with the race structure I'd like to see again, be it single races or championships, is that really going to make GT more of a 'generic simcade' game?

Anyway,

To the point again, the game itself isn't really 'controversial'. Just some perceivably bad decision making around it at most.

 

[Met Entso]

PD is like a genius who forgets to comb his hair and adjust his tie.

 

[imChris]

Too many cars are still too difficult to drive on a pad

What cars are too difficult to drive on controller? It's almost impossible to spin on the 1.55 patch (unless you bottom out on a sausage kerb). It's simply a very forgiving game on controller.

 

[equalitus]

What cars are too difficult to drive on controller? It's almost impossible to spin on the 1.55 patch (unless you bottom out on a sausage kerb). It's simply a very forgiving game on controller.

At the WTC 700 Le Mans I used RH and had 50% red tires [albeit on a FR or MR race car] but the traction loss when accelerating & at low speed, less than 100 km/h, is exaggerated compared to reality. There is also the issue in GT7 that some cars have very different grip even when equipped with the same tires & same weight & same gearing ratio & same downforce which is distantly relevant.

 

[fisheye]

Everyone likes and dislikes a part of GT7 in their own way, as mentioned, the word 'controversial' doesn't quite fit the situation.

I don't find anything controversial about the GT franchise. It's a racing game with the best real world physics. Ask any Porsche owner will agree.
Edit...
My lifetime profession let me repair and drive most of the cars in GT... Porsche, MBZ, JAG, AUDI, and even Pintos and Yugos (the worst car in automotive history) GT is the best real world emulator IMHO. My favorite real world car was the Nizmo I got to drive after repairs.

 

[Voodoovaj]

At the WTC 700 Le Mans I used RH and had 50% red tires [albeit on a FR or MR race car] but the traction loss when accelerating & at low speed, less than 100 km/h, is exaggerated compared to reality. There is also the issue in GT7 that some cars have very different grip even when equipped with the same tires & same weight & same gearing ratio & same downforce which is distantly relevant.

You mean like a real car?

Because suspension geometry, suspension components, the chassis design, etc, etc, etc, all factor in.

According to the handy dandy internet, a Porsche turbo has a curb weight of 3550 lbs. My VW Golf Sportwagen has a curb weight of 3000 lbs. If I equipped my car with the same tires, do you expect that my VW Sportwagen with outgrip a Porsche turbo?

Also "same tires" is a stretch.


Use and engine swapped RX7 for the WTC700

 

[hawkeyez]

What cars are too difficult to drive on controller? It's almost impossible to spin on the 1.55 patch (unless you bottom out on a sausage kerb). It's simply a very forgiving game on controller.

Haven’t played on controller for a long time, but way back I remember having an E Type Jag tune I could just barely keep under control with the wheel, took it out with the controller and it was difficult to get it to spin around on me. Night and day between wheel and controller, then anyway.

Most controversial thing about it for me is how they constantly change or eliminate things, especially things that were more than welcome like tune sharing, but then keep things like non adjustable HUD.

Kaz said he thinks screenshots and sending thru PS chat is more than enough to share tunes, it’s laziness. They don’t even include all the information in the settings sheet such as widebody, tire width, offset etc. He thinks filling up your hard drive with two to three screenshots is enough and doesn’t take into consideration the amount of time it takes to apply the tune part by part. Almost every racing sim has tune sharing. You click on it, send, they click on it and load and you’re running the exact same tunes in seconds, not five to ten minutes of buying parts and making suspension adjustments etc. lame!

 

[Lightpilgrim]

Tune sharing would be great