GT4 grids and "Vision GT"

[Hun200kmh]

In other threads some of us have been mentioning that perhaps GT4 is already prepared to handle more than 6 cars per race, and it's only because of the PS2 processing limits that the game only allows 6 car races (or even 2, in some cases).

While reading this (yesterday) I recalled that I had noticed some grids with more than six "spots" (sorry, but english is not my native language and I don't know how to call them). Because I was not sure if these grids were from real life tracks (Nurb, Tsukuba, Laguna Seca, etc.), I checked last night the GT-only tracks (didn't check them in reverse, just normal).

And I discovered that, even if most of them have just six-car grids, some have more. IIRC (I didn't take notes), Trial Mountain has a grid for 10 cars, one other has 8. But the top is reached in Grand Valley. This track has a grid for 22 cars !!!

So, did the guys at PD "paint" these grids with no reason? Or did they "forget" to clean them before releasing the game?

I guess my second assumption might be the correct one. And if I'm right, we could have a nice gift with the PS3. Maybe it is just GT4 with 22 car races, but that's enough reason for me to buy it.

 

[Zardoz]

...This track has a grid for 22 cars !!!

Nice. Good eye.

The clues are there for us, aren't they?

EDIT: Now that you mention it, seems like I remember a forum post from a while back that mentioned several new-to-GT4 tracks having 22 positions painted on their starting grids. I'll check that tonight.

 

[s0l1dsn8k3]

Trial Mountain has a grid for 10 cars, one other has 8.

I think these are the same in GT3. The tracks back then already have more than 6 grid positions.

It is possible that they have updated Grand Valley and included them in new tracks to prepare for a 22-car line up. Of course they could be there just for show.

However, I don't think it is that good to have every race with 22 cars. It would be difficult to start at 22nd place and work all the way to 1st place is a couple of laps (unless you blow them away with max upgrades). Probably they will limit short races to 6 to 8 cars. And with longer races, they can include more cars.

 

[Studentdriver]

Or they could reinstate qualifying on individual races.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

Or they could reinstate qualifying on individual races.

Word. I miss that the most from GT3, sometimes that extra couple hundred bux came in handy. 👍

 

[Studentdriver]

Actually, you were not rewarded for pole position in GT3. You were in GT1, not sure about GT2, as I never played it, but I plan on buying it over the summer.

WARNING: Wall of Text
The great thing about qualifying with 20+ cars in the field is that, with the (assumed) range in performance, you might actually qualify in the middle of the pack (gasp!). Something that always bugged me in GT is that when you qualify, you either get pole or last 90% of the time. And I wouldn't like random placement. I'm sure we've all seen what happens in B-Spec when the slowest car in the field is out in front. They block the faster cars, making it much too easy for your B-Spec Bob to stick with the speedster. Now, that's not a problem in B-Spec; easier is always better in B-Spec. But if you were placed, say, fifth in a field of sixteen with the fastest cars in second, eighth, and fourteenth with a seriously underpowered car. The car in second would fly away from the other two, who are trying to fight their way around you. And now they might actually try to go around you, rather than bump you off the road, making the process more difficult.



If you didn't really feel like reading all that, here's the summary: If there are going to be races with 12-22 cars, qualifying is necessary to maintain the integrity of the races.

 

[G25RJ]

So, did the guys at PD "paint" these grids with no reason? Or did they "forget" to clean them before releasing the game?

Could this be a message from PD that they were working on GT5 when GT4 was in development.

 

[Zardoz]

Could this be a message from PD that they were working on GT5 when GT4 was in development.

Or that GT4.5 will be ready to go when the PS3 is?

So many possible scenarios...

 

[JohnBM01]

If you ask me, it kind of doesn't matter how many show up on the starting grid, because keep in mind, there are rolling starts for some tracks. In this situation, it doesn't really matter how many starting grid positions you have. And just because there are only a few grid positions doesn't mean that only those few positions will be made available for cars to start from. The 24 Hours of Le Mans isn't a Standing Start deal, neither is Nurburgring Nordschleife, Sears Point, or whatever.

There is a situation I do like to address however. Some courses have strange Start/Finish gate or line placements. For one, El Capitan had one, and it's tough to tell where the Start/Finish line is... because there IS NO LINE! Suzuka's Start/Finish uses only the last few rows of the full circuit. I can tell you this, though. You can bet the real Start/Finish line will be used for Suzuka come GT5, granted that Suzuka finds its way into GT5. So we may see new lines in GT5. But this is no indication that the courses are made only for 6 cars. Just because you see six grid spots in GT4 doesn't mean there will only be 6 positions in GT5. I'm sure PD will revise the track to show each position in detail. So don't worry about it, pals!

More pit stalls would have to be made available in case all courses (except rally courses) feature many cars to a track. Just the thought of 20 cars to a track in Gran Turismo is tempting to me. Then, you have to build around it. Make it work. Everything from AI to handling them all on track is a huge task. With trial and error, 20 cars on track will be an unreal experience. With a mixed variety of cars, the other consideration (as a racer) would be learning variations in speed. This is CRITICAL in series like the American Le Mans Series, where you have prototypes and GT cars going at it. This is why I say that the GTWorld Championship would be incredibly intense if it were like an ALMS race, for example. I'd anticipate some excitement from each race as climbing to the front has gone from "be faster than 5 others" may jump to "be faster than 19 others." Nice tradeoff, isn't it?

 

[TMM]

Didn't some of the tracks in GT1 have more than the 6 spots to start from?

 

[Hun200kmh]

I think these are the same in GT3. The tracks back then already have more than 6 grid positions.

It is possible that they have updated Grand Valley and included them in new tracks to prepare for a 22-car line up. Of course they could be there just for show.

However, I don't think it is that good to have every race with 22 cars. It would be difficult to start at 22nd place and work all the way to 1st place is a couple of laps (unless you blow them away with max upgrades). Probably they will limit short races to 6 to 8 cars. And with longer races, they can include more cars.

I don't remember seeing more than 6 grid positions in any track of GT3. I'll check that tonight.

Sure it is impossible to win short races with rolling starts and no qualifying if you're up against a field of 22 cars. Either they include qualifying or the number of cars in such races must be kept at 6, max. 8.

The PS2 game I have with the larger fields is the "Le Mans 24 H". Some races have 10, some 12, some 18, and the two really long enduros (Le Mans and Road Atlanta) have 24 cars, divided in two categories.

And I like those races a lot. If you're in a fast LMP, chasing others or being chased by them, slower traffic is an issue (Vipers, Corvettes, Porsches, etc.) and ultimately it can even change your pitstop strategy, considering the many seconds you (or the AI) will lose in one or two laps, while trying to get rid of a bunch of these cars battling each others and with no respect at all to faster cars (this is not realistic, considering that IRL they should let us pass immediatly, but I don't complain, since the AI guys consistently lose more time with this than the human players).

I want to have strategy in endurance races, and GT4 is missing that. Larger fields with different classes of cars and mid-race weather changes (also presente in "LM 24H") are needed for that.

I don't expect a GT with weather changes to be released with the PS3. But I hope that there'll be a new game with many more cars per race. Just to keep us happy (and buying games) until GT5.

 

[ferrari_chris]

So, did the guys at PD "paint" these grids with no reason? Or did they "forget" to clean them before releasing the game?

Hmmmm, I think the grids are there for the sake of realism. They go to great lengths to make the tracks in the game (the ones from real life) match the actual tracks to the last detail. There's a thread floating around ("GT4 Realistic beyond belief" or something similar) that covers how PD have included the portable-toilets in the pit lane at Infineon Raceway. The grid stalls are the same. If the track in real life has x number of grid stalls, then the track in the game will have x number of grid stalls. It's like the way they included all the writing on the road at Nurburgring. If it's there in real life, it's in the game.
As for PD's own tracks, they probably 'painted' extra grid stalls in the effort of realism. Doing everything they can to make it look like a real track...

Some courses have strange Start/Finish gate or line placements. For one, El Capitan had one, and it's tough to tell where the Start/Finish line is... because there IS NO LINE! Suzuka's Start/Finish uses only the last few rows of the full circuit. I can tell you this, though. You can bet the real Start/Finish line will be used for Suzuka come GT5, granted that Suzuka finds its way into GT5.

I think if you take a careful look at many international tracks, through Formula 1 coverage for example, you'll find that many of them have the Start/Finish line at the back of the grid. The cars are started ahead of this point so that cars at the back are not around a corner, or have an obstructed view of the start. It's common for a track to have the finish line at the back of the grid.

I hope this helps to clear up any issues...

 

[superhodge]

Didnt PD change the way the game loads its data to alow the nurburg? surley they could of done this with cars in the game!
I think that there need to be more than 6 cars in a 24H race to kee the player intrested