GT5 ButtKicker/Transducer Setups

[jswilli1]

I have decided to create a thread specifically for GT5 and utilizing a ButtKicker or other Transducer setup to enhance your racing experience. I know this can get complex since some of us have several transducer setups in their cockpits but hopefully I can make this "one stop shopping". I believe we have a little more control with the audio setup in GT5 but it appears to be a mirror image of GT5P with a few subtle changes.

My Home Theater Setup: Onkyo 805 reciever, Bose AM-5/AM-7 with 2 bass modules, Bose VCS-10 Center, Klipsch 10" Powered Sub, ButtKicker BKA-300 Wireless.

My GT5 Audio settings: (in Game)

Current Audio Output Setting: Linear PCM 5.1 ch 48kHz
Menu BGM (Back Ground Music): 100
Menu Sound Effects: 100
Race BGM (Back Ground Music): 25
Race Sound Effects: 120 (MAX)
Replay BGM (Back Ground Music): 90
Replay Sound Effects: 120 (MAX)
Personal BGM: 90
Dynamic Range: Small Theater
Speaker Layout: 5.1-Channel Surround

For optimal results while racing the Race or Personal BGM should be at 0 or relatively low to cut out the Bass notes from the music. Race Sound effects should be at 120 (max) to optimize the signals to the Transducer. Menu and Replay BGM and Sound Effects are personal preference as they don't effect the audio while racing just during playback. Dynamic Range is extremely important as this enhances/cuts the audio track depending on your Home Theater setup.
Living Room - Used for normal Stereo TV without Surround Sound Setup, when used in a Home Theater setup is has I higher volume than Small Theater.
Small Theater - Used for Home Theater setups using small or "Satellite" speakers vice large cabinet speakers. Sound is slighlty lower than living room but frequencies optimized for Home Theater setups. The lower frequencies are directed away from your "Satellites" and sent to your Subwoofer and/or Sound Transducer.
Large Theater - Used for Home Theater setups using Large Cabinet style speakers. If selected when using "Satellite" or small speakers then sound is cut by nearly 50% due to frequency response. The lower frequencies are still sent to your Subwoofer and/or Sound Transducer but are also directed to your large Cabinet speakers as these normally contain a mid-range speaker along with a Subwoofer.

I started GT5 by enjoying the Intro movie and I must say that I thought I was back in High School rolling in my '67 Mustang Coupe with the two 10" and two 8" subs thumping in the trunk! The Buttkicker was just thumping with the Intro music during the movie and wow what a treat. I still have some work to do dialing in my Onkyo for GT5 particularly with the Subwoofer/LFE channel Gain. I will update more after I get this dialed in as this area is crucial especially when trying to get it right while playing GT5P. I need to go to Arcade mode and try the walls , AI cars to see how the transducer reacts when striking them at various speeds. I also need to test out the "Wind Effect" and not forgetting to get a "feel" for the raised curbs, etc. More to come 👍

 

[Mars Attacks]

Very interesting subject:tup:

 

[the_greeze]

Good thread 👍

I've been playing around with various settings for my setup too (2x Buttkickers and 5 Aura tactile transducers) so it's nice to see another similar thread.
I'm waiting on some custom-made mounting plates to be powdercoated and then I can mount the Aura's correctly and finalise the settings.

Current config:
Buttkicker (LFE channel)
Buttkicker (Centre channel)
2x Aura (Left Front / Right Front)
2x Aura (Left Rear / Right Rear)
1x Aura (Centre channel)

I'll post more info (mounting locations etc) as soon as I get everything bolted onto the rig!

 

[Mr Latte]

Ive still been messing around with temporary setup on a GamePod for now.
Not using all my components at the moment on this setup but running with:

Left Channel Tactile = Clarke 209
Right Channel Tactile = Clarke 209
Centre Channel Tactile = Mini LFE Buttkicker
Surround Channel Tactile = Mini LFE Buttkicker
LFE = BKA 300

Basically this gives Surround Tactile allowing the player to feel tactile for each channel. Highlights are feeling cars to the side, exhaust/engine rumble from a car in front, a car approaching from behind and main thumps like car crashes and bumps shaking the player from the LFE under the seat.

Ive found so far the GT5 actually has a lot of differences to GT5P regards its audio and Tactile Units.

Firstly they seemed to of fixed the Dynamic Range on the Room Settings were before we found the smallest room used the most LFE. Thats now no longer the case.

During my own messing around Ive found the Dynamic Range again to change dramatically within the game. This is a bit annoying for instance some cars are so much louder to others and means your having to fiddle with volume settings, The game should have some form of audio management to help with that. It is also a problem with external views and particularly the tarmac view, the audio changes dramatically in volume between viewpoints.

I have to do further testing myself to offer more of my own experience so far but Ive also noticed that the game seems to of lost most of the tarmac rumble that GT5P had. Will know when I take a Nissan GTR around Fuji. However thiers so many tracks and cars yet to test before being able to put a full verdict on things.

The main criticisims I have are audio ommissions.
Off track and gravel have next to no bass effect and maybe using Equalisers will help with that. In general though the game can produce a very entertaining tactile immersion particulary if even adding a centre channel unit to you pedal area this improves things over just a single unit on the LFE.

Nice to hear you guys enjoying the game I reckon I will make a few changes and upgrades along the way before I get things to how I want it for my cockpit and one of the biggest challenges when having so many units is having them feel different and not get drowned out as one big mash of rumble. Thiats why Ive personally found using mixed models/brands and again I have to say Equalisers allows tailoring to how the various units can feel a bit different.

Issues with GT5 Audio & Tactile:
Rumble strips are very strong in effects at slow speeds.
To a point yes this makes sense but as you playing with faster cars then your speeds are higher and while some faster cars have better engine noises with the higher speeds you loose out a bit on the rumble strips tactile.

GT5 also need IMO a combination of LFE and Standard Audio Tactile.
Mainly as the LFE is not always used to the best effect from the audio within the game. To give the player control over this then indeed requires multiple tactile units but as Ive found EQ's are needed to tweek and get the best out of the game and allow the user to in effect change the games audio to create a better tactile result. I guess it all depends how far you want or are willing to go...

 

[jswilli1]

Ive found so far the GT5 actually has a lot of differences to GT5P regards its audio and Tactile Units.

Firstly they seemed to of fixed the Dynamic Range on the Room Settings were before we found the smallest room used the most LFE. Thats now no longer the case.

During my own messing around Ive found the Dynamic Range again to change dramatically within the game. This is a bit annoying for instance some cars are so much louder to others and means your having to fiddle with volume settings, The game should have some form of audio management to help with that. It is also a problem with external views and particularly the tarmac view, the audio changes dramatically in volume between viewpoints.

I too noticed that the Dynamic range has changed with GT5 while playing last night. The night before when I first played GT5 and setup up the Audio and BK I failed to notice while playing that my daughter accidently knocked the + red wire from the transducer (4 beers didn't help either ). True I did notice the volume between cars did change drastically when working on the A licenses. I noticed it particularly with the Audi in License A-1 and the the enormous roar from the Mini Cooper in License A-2 I believe. I also noticed that you can experience the Exhaust notes from the vehicles from the rear view of the car, but the cockpit is not as noticable as experienced in GT5P. Then again like you mentioned I have only experieced/tried a few cars.

I was really digging the Exhaust notes from the '71 Mustang Mach1 as I was taking it through its paces at Laguna Seca last night. I only made minor mods to it, running the 4 speeds w/clutch on my G25 and no Aids. I found myself in the gravel, grass and like you said I didn't "feel" any feedback in these areas. Then again I have not made any type of adjustment to my A/V receiver at this point. I did note that on License A-10 while taking the Mitsubishi on its paces at the High Speed Ring that the raised curbs where definetly noticable and one..two cars and a Wall . Overall GT5 will definetly be a treat for users who want to add a Tactile Transducer or two to their rig while racing! 👍

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

You guy's should try the Shelby Cobra, you can feel the engine, amazing.

Also, good to see the wind noise has gone, I've almost got a perfect setup now and I haven't changed anything since Prologue, only minor grip is the high speed kerbs are a little weak, major plus is the impacts are violent !

 

[Mr Latte]

Will check that out doc, yeah I got to get some big muscle cars yet. Maybe worthwhile doing a list of cars that REALLY feel good in the game. I love all the Stealth models, great engine sounds.

Rome track has nice feeling in the cobblestones and it varies. Rally stages can be fun, and the Clubman stage those strips over the road just give a satisfying bump.

Any others you guys noticed?


jswilli
I will at some point connect an EQ and monitor sounds for off track/gravel.
Maybe possible with an EQ to boost those frequencies and use a seperate "Tactile Unit" specifically for that purpose.

 

[jswilli1]

Will check that out doc, yeah I got to get some big muscle cars yet. Maybe worthwhile doing a list of cars that REALLY feel good in the game. I love all the Stealth models, great engine sounds.

Rome track has nice feeling in the cobblestones and it varies. Rally stages can be fun, and the Clubman stage those strips over the road just give a satisfying bump.

Any others you guys noticed?


jswilli
I will at some point connect an EQ and monitor sounds for off track/gravel.
Maybe possible with an EQ to boost those frequencies and use a seperate "Tactile Unit" specifically for that purpose.

I have to admit I have been "slacking" on working with my ButtKicker adjustments. I have been on shift (12hr) all week since the game released and getting to play but a few hours after work before going to bed. My A/V receiver settings are the same as for GT5P and all other titles. Like you mentioned I have noticed some considerable audio improvements in GT5 just need to find those sweet spot adjustments and exploit them to their fullest potential.

From the Garage, when you select another car to drive the Rev's are pretty impressive and you get excellent feedback through the transducer. I need to try and select a few of the cars one after another and "feel" the differences. I have bought two muscle cars from the Used Car Lot:

1. S Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi ‘71
2. S Pontiac Tempest Le Mans GTO ‘64

Last night I also uploaded cars from my PSP and got to toy around with the '65 Shelby Mustang in Arcade Mode - Absolute Fun! Should have time on Sunday to tinker with audio adjustments, cars, etc.

 

[ckellyusa]

For those of you with more than one type of transducer, are you connecting them to the same amp?

I have 1 buttkicker and 4 of the aura bass pro shakers and currenly on the 1000amp buttkicker amp.... can I mix them?

 

[Mr Latte]

You can but see their website on the best way to connect them

 

[ckellyusa]

I haven't seen on the buttkicker website a diagram for connecting anything other than buttkicker branded transducers.... would I use their diagrams and just substitute the auras?

 

[Mr Latte]

The main rule is you wire them taking note of the neg/pos.

 

[GTP_Yoshi]

Guys.. Its a little bit off topic but maybe this is the best place for some help. My 5.1 Panasonic setup is not working with GT5! Its mute, all mute.

When im on PS3 screen and inside other games, everything is just fine. But when i put GT5 i can hear nothing. I tested every single option possible with no results. Does anyone around with the same problem? Here are my configs:

- HT is cabled on PS3 by digital optical.
- Current Audio Output Setting: Linear PCM 5.1 ch 48kHz
- Dynamic Range: Small Theater
- Speaker Layout: 5.1-Channel Surround

I really apreciate your help, guys!

Best regards,
Yoshi

 

[Mr Latte]

Try redoing your audio setup again, highlight Dolby & DTS dont think its anything to do with the room settings. I think thats maybe more just a crude but useful tool to increase the db more than anything.

If you also have HDMI/Optical being used or a mixture of Analogue cable & Digital connected make sure you have your PS3 set to allow "Multi-audio Output" Then ensure that whatever way your amp is connected gets that it gets the "Digital Sound Output"

Still get nothing then try disabling one at a time the DTS or Dolby (untick box) only use one then save and reboot.


* PS3 will only output 1x Digital Multichannel audio at a time even if HDMI & Optical are connected.
You have to set which cable you want on Digital Multichannel.

 

[GTP_Yoshi]

Try redoing your audio setup again, highlight Dolby & DTS dont think its anything to do with the room settings. I think thats maybe more just a crude but useful tool to increase the db more than anything.

If you also have HDMI/Optical being used or a mixture of Analogue cable & Digital connected make sure you have your PS3 set to allow "Multi-audio Output" Then ensure that whatever way your amp is connected gets that it gets the "Digital Sound Output"

Still get nothing then try disabling one at a time the DTS or Dolby (untick box) only use one then save and reboot.


* PS3 will only output 1x Digital Multichannel audio at a time even if HDMI & Optical are connected.
You have to set which cable you want on Digital Multichannel.

Mr Latte,

Thank you so much for the ideas. The problem was quite simple to solve. I've just turned off the DTS option and then was just fine. I think my Panasonic set didnt support it!

'Playing out loud' in a 5.1 setup its now just wonderful! My best regards man.

 

[oqvist]

My LFE doesn´t work as well in GT 5 as in the better PC games or Forza 3.

The one thing that make me run without my LFE often is the awful crash sounds... They not just sound awful but when you tune the LFE so you get decent feedback when racing it hits through like nuts every time you crash into someone. And if I tune it so it doesn´t do that it´s nearly non existant and way to subtle.

No way around this but EQ but then I would need a second amplifier so I don´t ruin the below average sound in this game even more. Also my Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer doesn´t support dolby digital signals so can you pass through a digital signal via optical and analog via the component cable?

 

[Pittman325i]

Thanks for posting your ingame setup for the ButtKicker.

I'm wondering what everyones settings are for the ButtKicker amp? The amp that comes with the ButtKicker 2 is a BKA-130C and has the following dials on it. Low Filter Cutoff, High Cutoff On/Off, and a High Cutoff Frequency dial that goes from 40 to 160.

The ButtKicker itself is connected by splitting the SUB out on my Denon A/V Receiver, one cable going to the subwoofer the other going to my ButtKicker amp.

Thanks Guys!

 

[Mr Latte]

My LFE doesn´t work as well in GT 5 as in the better PC games or Forza 3.

The one thing that make me run without my LFE often is the awful crash sounds... They not just sound awful but when you tune the LFE so you get decent feedback when racing it hits through like nuts every time you crash into someone. And if I tune it so it doesn´t do that it´s nearly non existant and way to subtle.

No way around this but EQ but then I would need a second amplifier so I don´t ruin the below average sound in this game even more. Also my Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer doesn´t support dolby digital signals so can you pass through a digital signal via optical and analog via the component cable?

Maybe as I have found part of the problem your facing is with some cars you have to crank the volume more and others. some older standard cars dont have anything close to the LFE strength of effects as some of the Premiums.
Your right the LFE effects are very strong, like hitting concrete sections of tracks is one instance so the game seems to need adjustments made between cars.

The game does have varying levels of dynamics, have you guys found this too and depending on the car but also the view used.

I use an AV amp via HDMI but then individual PREOUTS into Behringer EQs then into seperate amps for amplification.
However for LFE I use 2x Behringer ULTRABASS PRO which is for SUB harmonics and gives more control for low end freq.

 

[the_greeze]

I agree; the LFE channel in GT5 is nowhere near as effective as in Prologue or practically any other driving game. Its lost that lovely low-end 'road-rumble' sadly.
I've compensated by having two Aura transducers mounted on the left and right seat mounts fed from the left & right channels. Not as good as previously but better than nothing...

 

[Mr Latte]

The road drone is yeah almost completely missing but some other improvements are in. I find the wooden bridge at Eifel and the bumps on the road on another, also the colbbles in Rome.

Who though is up to help test together and posting findings guys? Id be interested in a nerdy way to try some things both in settings and ingame options to see what helps or indeed alters things.

What about deciding on a track and a single car to start?
We can then all test this together and by combining our findings form a basis for good settings to improve the tactile feedback and gain more understanding of the issues or ways to make the most of it.

Choose a.....
Car?
Track?

btw some of you should also try to increase the LFE Crossover to something higher if your AV equipment allows it. Maybe say 120? Have a wider range of frequencies go to the LFE channel might help it perform better in the game. Additionally many AV Recievers have DSP/Surround modes and many of these boost/reduce the LFE channel so its worth taking that on board as well.

Queries Id like to test or ask...

Car tyres or car height does this make any difference?
Dolby / DTS any differences for the LFE?

 

[jswilli1]

The road drone is yeah almost completely missing but some other improvements are in. I find the wooden bridge at Eifel and the bumps on the road on another, also the colbbles in Rome.

Who though is up to help test together and posting findings guys? Id be interested in a nerdy way to try some things both in settings and ingame options to see what helps or indeed alters things.

What about deciding on a track and a single car to start?
We can then all test this together and by combining our findings form a basis for good settings to improve the tactile feedback and gain more understanding of the issues or ways to make the most of it.

Choose a.....
Car?
Track?

btw some of you should also try to increase the LFE Crossover to something higher if your AV equipment allows it. Maybe say 120? Have a wider range of frequencies go to the LFE channel might help it perform better in the game. Additionally many AV Recievers have DSP/Surround modes and many of these boost/reduce the LFE channel so its worth taking that on board as well.

Queries Id like to test or ask...

Car tyres or car height does this make any difference?
Dolby / DTS any differences for the LFE?

I'm game, I have just about every Muscle Car just missing the '69 Camaro (I can buy at Dealer), '79 Corvette (Dealer), and the Super Bird to name a few. It will have to wait till after the holidays though.....Going Deer Hunting!

 

[tinker]

The road drone is yeah almost completely missing but some other improvements are in. I find the wooden bridge at Eifel and the bumps on the road on another, also the colbbles in Rome.

Yeah lot's of the road surface have great TT feed-back. Rome is good, even little changes in the varied surfacing is transmitted.
At the Eiger short the wooden bridge is quite well transmitted, when going slowly across the bridge the LFE signal seems to be tied to the rear wheels, is this always the case?

Who though is up to help test together and posting findings guys? Id be interested in a nerdy way to try some things both in settings and ingame options to see what helps or indeed alters things.

I'm up for pitching in with our common findings. maybe this "project" is a good time to dig into the "ButtKicker Users Group" social group?

What about deciding on a track and a single car to start?
We can then all test this together and by combining our findings form a basis for good settings to improve the tactile feedback and gain more understanding of the issues or ways to make the most of it.

Choose a.....
Car?
Track?

Car:
Soundwise and TT wise I'm partial to either the Shelby Cobra (ChromeLine) or the Maserati GranTurismo S.

Track:
A smooth track to test vehicle feedback and a seperate track to test test road surfacing, Rome and Eiger perhaps?

 

[LostBoyNZ]

GT5 is the first racer I've used a buttkicker with, and I'm pretty impressed! I felt like I was missing out on a lot of the engine rumble though, and when I changed the cut off frequency on my amp to 200Hz instead of 80Hz, that helped a lot. Still, I'm just at the very beginning of playing with such settings.

A question though; sometimes the buttkicker makes a sudden metallic thump rather than a rumble (or along with a rumble), in particular when I smack into another car or they smack into me. This isn't always the case, as sometimes it gives me a nice rumble which feels like I just hit a car! But I wonder if anyone else has experienced this?

 

[Uscbryan]

Thanks for posting your ingame setup for the ButtKicker.

I'm wondering what everyones settings are for the ButtKicker amp? The amp that comes with the ButtKicker 2 is a BKA-130C and has the following dials on it. Low Filter Cutoff, High Cutoff On/Off, and a High Cutoff Frequency dial that goes from 40 to 160.

The ButtKicker itself is connected by splitting the SUB out on my Denon A/V Receiver, one cable going to the subwoofer the other going to my ButtKicker amp.

Thanks Guys!

I have the same setup but different receiver. Anyone have a response to this? I just got my buttkicker today and woud like to know a good setting for the amp itself. Thanks

 

[Dracwolley]

I'd recommend using 100 instead of 120 for the race sound effects etc, because more than likely the game puts amplification on the noise rather than just sending it straight to you, potentially giving you nasty distortion and a narrower dynamic range. I'd recommend turning everything down by 20, and then turning you amplifier/speakers up. It's also better for your speakers this way.

GT5 is the first racer I've used a buttkicker with, and I'm pretty impressed! I felt like I was missing out on a lot of the engine rumble though, and when I changed the cut off frequency on my amp to 200Hz instead of 80Hz, that helped a lot. Still, I'm just at the very beginning of playing with such settings.

Your cutoff frequency was at 200Hz?
80 is indeed much better, but you should have it set at around 20, which is the limit of what your ears can hear. If you have it at 10 you'll get more rumble as well, and I'm sure the ButtKicker can handle those low frequencies.

 

[Mr Latte]

LFE

Care is needed in altering the LFE cutoff.
80Hz will on some setups and dependant on the content/material used limit the "Range" of effects. If its too low you may feel your not getting much response from the BK used and only certain sounds within the game triggering it. This is a common problem but why also mixing LFE set to reinforce the very Low end with audible subwoofers works so well. Buttkickers in particular seem better suited to the lower end rumble. A Clarke Tactile Transducer in my experience works better with early mid range frequencies around 120hz and upwards.

The Problem at the other end is that setting it to 200Hz means although it will seem to respond to more sounds within the game what will happen is it will bottom out as it exceeds its capacity with mid range frequencies. This could damage your unit, particulary with high volumes.

Maybe try something in between but I wouldnt recommend exceeding150Hz and personally reckon about 125Hz might give you a good balance between having more sounds avticating the BK and it still giving a good performance.

Do remember with a single unit you are going to be limited and cant have both ideal lowend and mid range tactile.

 

[jswilli1]

Well guess I have revived this thread considering I have had ample time behind the wheel in GT5 now (A - 24 / B - 17). Yesterday I decided to hard mount my BKA300 advanced transducer to my chair instead of using the mount you place beneath the leg of the chair. Wow what a huge difference this makes, almost saddens me that it took me nearly three years to do this. I physically mounted the transducer upside down fully level and centered just beneath my bottom in my chair. I found using the transducer with the mount you place under the leg to make alot of noise particularly in the vibration sound (No Pun). I tried both Battlefield Bad Company 2 and GT5 yesterday after getting the mounting complete and the difference is huge kinda like going from a SD TV to HD TV. In Battlefield (Vietnam) I played several maps, I noted the following while playing Hill 137. I noticed many of these before, but with relocating the transducer it made the "feeling" much more defined. I could feel my character running, I felt every footstep he made. I could feel every explosion including the distant explosions on the other side of the map. The .50 Cal on the back of the jeep is just insane now, along with the dual machine gun on the gun boats. In GT5 I played (Beer Spec) last night, I used the Amuse Carbon R34 (+700HP) and ran Tuned Cup Championship in Expert level. The exhaust notes of the Amuse where so so considering the bumble bee exhaust, but when I came up behind the RUF RGT now that car had a few notes to be felt. Everything "felt" great like the red/white raised curbs on all the tracks. The raised curbs are interesting when using a ButtKicker, if you hit them slow they are very pronounced, but hit them at a faster speed and their amplitude changes. In other words depending on your speed depends on the feeling that is felt through the transducer. One of the notable tracks is Special Stage Route 5 and the expansion joints on the bridge, you can literally feel every one of these when your flying down the straight ( I believe this was brought up in another thread). I have yet to drive and get the feeling in the steering wheel, although it is there because I put my hand on the wheel when going over the expansion joints on SSR5. I have been tuning my A/V receiver and audio in GT5 to fine tune the transducer, The hardest thing to adjust for so far is bumping into cars, it is a rather "hard" thump with the transducer where it sounds like it bottoms out. Walls, nothing yet since Bob has not whacked a wall yet.

I will update this thread with a few pics and update the ButtKicker User Group with my audio settings when I get them finalized. I will also try a few other cars with a more "throaty" exhaust most likely a few Muscle cars to see how the BK reacts. See you guys on the Track:tup:

This was the original configuration with ButtKicker mounted to plate and placed under rear leg. Also mount for BK amp attached to chair, amp still entertainment center.

This is the new configuration with Transducer mounted inverted under the chair. (Note the Rubber Isolator under front leg)

Another view of the mount. Will add speaker terminals to outside of chair to make chair easier to move and connection of Transducer easier. (rubber isolator on left front leg)