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No Americans didn't invent racing in circles see:

polydus2.jpg
THE CIRCUS:
ROMAN CHARIOT RACING


The first-century CE satirist Juvenal wrote, “Long ago the people shed their anxieties, ever since we do not sell our votes to anyone. For the people—who once conferred imperium, symbols of office, legions, everything—now hold themselves in check and anxiously desire only two things, the grain dole and chariot races in the Circus” (Satires 10.77-81). Juvenal's famous phrase, panem et circenses (“bread and circuses”) has become proverbial to describe those who give away significant rights in exchange for material pleasures. Juvenal has put his finger on two of the most important aspects of Roman chariot races—their immense popularity and the pleasure they gave the Roman people, and the political role they played during the empire in diverting energies that might otherwise have gone into rioting and other forms of popular unrest. The image above bears witness to the popularity of the races; found in the imperial baths in Trier (Germany), this centerpiece of a large mosaic floor depicts a charioteer for the Reds, holding in his hands the palm branch and laurel wreath, symbols of victory. Both the driver, Polydus, and his lead horse, Compressor, are identified by name, as though they were great state heroes. We can deduce something of the political role of chariot racing from the fact that the same word, factiones, was used to designate the four racing stables as had been applied to the political factions (the populares and the optimates) that had such large followings in the Republic.
[SIZE=+1]Origins:[/SIZE] Possibly the oldest spectacular sport in Rome, chariot racing dates back at least to the sixth century BCE. It was quite popular among the Etruscans, an advanced civilization of non-Italic people who for a time dominated the area around Rome and contributed greatly to many aspects of Roman civilization. We can also see depictions of chariot racing among the Lucanians of Sicily in the fifth century BCE. Among these peoples, races were associated with funeral games, and in Rome too they had religious ties, particularly to the chariot-driving deities Sol (the sun) and Luna (the moon), and to a god called Consus, an agricultural deity who presided over granaries. Originally chariot races (ludi circenses) were held only on religious festivals like the Consualia, but later they would also be held on non-feast days when sponsored by magistrates and other Roman dignitaries.
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+2]CIRCUS MAXIMUS[/SIZE][/SIZE]
circus_maximus2.jpg

Races were held in a circus, so named because of its oval shape. The oldest and largest circus in Rome was the Circus Maximus, built in a long valley stretching between two hills, the Aventine (bottom left in this model shown ) and the Palatine (top right). Originally there was no building, just a flat sandy track with temporary markers; spectators sat on the hill slopes on either side of the track. Gradually the area developed into a well-maintained stadium-style building with a central divider, starting gates at one end (top left in this picture) and an arch at the other, surrounded on three sides by stands (originally wooden but later made of stone). By the time of Augustus, the entire building was 620 meters long (678 yards) and about 140-150 meters (159 yards) at its widest point; its seating capacity was approximately 150,000 spectators. This is a plan of the Circus Maximus, and this reconstruction drawing of the circus from the starting gate end shows the construction of the stands. This terracotta lamp depicts a chariot race in the Circus Maximus; on the left one can see rows of spectators, on the right the starting gates, and at the bottom the spina with its statues and obelisks. The form of the circus closely followed its function; for further details about the various structures in the circus and how they related to the races, see starting gates, track, barrier, turning posts, finish line, stands, and imperial enclosure. Enjoy a virtual day at the races by visiting the Circus Maximus in Region XI of VRoma, either via the web gateway or the anonymous browser.


Americans only improved it this way:



Yes. NASCAR has only been going in circles since the 50s. Indy Cars were going in circles before that and, as Opel pointed out, the Romans were doing it WAY before that. Perhaps whoever says that only Americans could invent racing in circles should google the history of Oval racing. It's been around for millennia.
 
Ok, see i can understand your logic and appreciate your opinion. What seemed to be the case from other members was something different.

Something more like, "I don't like bikes and they shouldn't be in GT". Which seems like failed logic to me.

I think what the others are saying is (and where the misunderstandings among us started from the loss in translation):

If there were an effort to put motorcycles in the game, (from those people's pespectives), they would rather have other features included in the game before seeing bikes.

From those people's perspective, they would feel that Kaz and PD would have wasted their time on bikes when they could have worked on other aspects, which would make GT5 much more complete.

That's my understanding.

As far as i am concerned, whatever is included in the game box, i will enjoy it to the max...


Whether it be Nascar, Karting, Bike, Track building, Photography..

I am not gonna ask for more...

I am just tired of waiting...
 
Gran Turismo is a racing game, though it is called the real driving simulator it is ultimately a racer.
I cannot fathom how you think the model t and Daimler are relevant in gt.
I will go further and say that most people would not be bothered if these cars were not in and the space used to ad more cars to other dealerships or to bring more manufacturers to the game.

Extremely relevant. why? Kaz included them. why? because they represent a history of Automotives.

Of course primarly a racing game, but for the Kaz it's also an encyclopedia/history of Automotives, because there is a passion involved with the overall plethora of what a car is, was, and becoming.

That's why you get a game like GT5. It's not just about what it's selling, but what your getting.
 
I am not a huge NASCAR fan but you sir are pretty ignorant.

I am with you on this one... I am not fond of Nascar, but it has its merits... ;)


Like i have said before around here, I will bet that many of you who seem to despite so much NASCAR, will actually enjoy more so than you think.

A few of you will find yourself apologizing to us.

Raised in europe, Nascar is not my preferred type of car races, yet i dont spit on it. Dont judge before you try it.
 
Yes. NASCAR has only been going in circles since the 50s. Indy Cars were going in circles before that and, as Opel pointed out, the Romans were doing it WAY before that. Perhaps whoever says that only Americans could invent racing in circles should google the history of Oval racing. It's been around for millennia.


and before all that, WE as humans RAN(and still do) circles. The competition of who's the fastest first.

Then add machines, pavement, physics. And you get Man Vs Earth Vs Man. :)
 
GT5 is a racing game, though it is called the real driving simulator it is ultimately a racer.
I cannot fathom how you think the model t and Daimler are relevant in gt.
I will go further and say that most people would not be bothered if these cars were not in and the space used to ad more cars to other dealerships or to bring more manufacturers to the game.

That you can't fathom why I would think they have a place within the context of GT isn't my problem and I know that trying to explain it to you won't make any difference whatsoever as you have chosen that GT is about racing only which is fair enough if you choose it to be only that ( which is an option I don't take ).

To me it's not just about racing only but offering a platform to experience all sorts of cars and car culture in general and enjoy driving them ( as a lot of cars included are only going to be experienced by me playing a videogame unfortunately ) without a competitive element.
Don't get me wrong, I like racing cars on and offline a lot but I can equally appreciate those cars not aimed to be full thoroughbred performance cars and enjoy other aspects not related to performance figures.

That may be an alien concept to you but my tastes and preferences in general are eclectic in nature and therefore my outlook on how I perceive the game much broader than yours apparantly, and most of all I like cars, not one type of car specifically or exclusively.
That's why I treat GT5 as a driving simulator foremost with a huge racing element and you only regard it as a racing game only, that's the difference.

( Oh and I will add that I have never, ever and will never, ever be concerned about what the majority of people thinks, wishes or chooses. That has no relevance to me or any impact on my views whatsoever ).
 
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Extremely relevant. why? Kaz included them. why? because they represent a history of Automotives.

Of course primarly a racing game, but for the Kaz it's also an encyclopedia/history of Automotives, because there is a passion involved with the overall plethora of what a car is, was, and becoming.

That's why you get a game like GT5. It's not just about what it's selling, but what your getting.

What you guys seem to have missed is:

The inclusion of those prehistoric cars (MB and FOrd's MODEL T) is to let us test/ & give us a taste of how far cars nowadays have come a long way from their "founding fathers".

Without those MB and model T, we would not have cars.

Kaz was giving us a chance to do a test drive that is difficult for all of us to reproduce in real life. He wants each one of us to experience what only a few automobile journalists can do during their professional life, which is to have dream scenarios.

Much like the one we will be getting with the Ferrari-Ford-Jaguar Trio in the upcoming GT5.

;) So dont be spitting before you think for a moment...

Dont be hating... think before you speak... it will save you a few shame, and a few stares at you... you will avoid looking stupid...


There is a reasons for everything, try to find it before saying non sense.




GREAT POST ANALOG 👍 👍 👍 I AGREE WITH YOU 100% Finally at least one person who has the same vision
 
I am with you on this one... I am not fond of Nascar, but it has its merits... ;)


Like i have said before around here, I will bet that many of you who seem to despite so much NASCAR, will actually enjoy more so than you think.

A few of you will find yourself apologizing to us.

Raised in europe, Nascar is not my preferred type of car races, yet i dont spit on it. Dont judge before you try it.

👍 agree 100% with what you said. What makes Nascar fun is the fact that the races are normally extremely even, which makes for close exciting racing.
 
What you guys seem to have missed is:

The inclusion of those prehistoric cars (MB and FOrd's MODEL T) is to let us test/ & give us a taste of how far cars nowadays have come a long way from their "founding fathers".

Without those MB and model T, we would not have cars.

Kaz was giving us a chance to do a test drive that is difficult for all of us to reproduce in real life. He wants each one of us to experience what only a few automobile journalists can do during their professional life, which is to have dream scenarios.

Much like the one we will be getting with the Ferrari-Ford-Jaguar Trio in the upcoming GT5.

;) So dont be spitting before you think for a moment...

Dont be hating... think before you speak... it will save you a few shame, and a few stares at you... you will avoid looking stupid...


There is a reasons for everything, try to find it before saying non sense.




GREAT POST ANALOG 👍 👍 👍 I AGREE WITH YOU 100% Finally at least one person who has the same vision

👍

I tried not to delve into details, but sometimes peoples logic need a little bit of help.
 
Just like Drag race, Nascar is a automobile race that essentially focus on one part of the whole racing experience.

Drag focuses on the cars out-acceleration with respect to another, without any other parameters.

NASCAR focuses on which car is the most consistent, reliable, and fastest within a certain time, without adding anymore parameters.
(my definition may be broad enough here to even include LeMans Races :P )

Formula One mixes all those parameters, making it much more complex, and requires a lot more compromises that those "simpler" american favorite car races.


All of those types can still co-exist, because we are all different and we appreciate different things in life.

Some of us even like WRC races, talk about weird... Trying to out race trees :lol:



👍

I tried not to delve into details, but sometimes peoples logic need a little bit of help.

I hope you didn't get offended.... my message was aimed at those who critic the game even before trying out or even thinking for themselves.
At least we agree.


I think he was just kidding ;)
 
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I hope you didn't get offended.... my message was aimed at those who critic the game even before trying out or even thinking for themselves.
At least we agree.



I think he was just kidding ;)

Oh nah doode. I was meaning you going into details was perfect :)

I wish more people would agree, or better yet "understand".
 
Gran Turismo is a racing game, though it is called the real driving simulator it is ultimately a racer.
I cannot fathom how you think the model t and Daimler are relevant in gt.
I will go further and say that most people would not be bothered if these cars were not in and the space used to ad more cars to other dealerships or to bring more manufacturers to the game.

So the tag-line they've decided to give it for the past 13 years, "the real driving simulator", isn't honest, but instead, a guy on a website has decided what the game's actually about? Nevermind that the game's producer has regularly stated his goal is more of an "automotive encyclopedia"?

Yeah, sure.

(Besides, if we were judging GT as strictly a racing game... it's a pretty lousy, bare-bones one, in the racing department).
 
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So gt is not a racing game ? wow forgive me but im sure 100% of the games content is racing or race orientated and if its an automotive history where are cars like the Bentley blower the Lotus 7 the ferrari 250gt?
All of these manufacturers are in the game but lack any of there truly historic models. time for a reality check it's a race game not a history lesson
 
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So where are cars like the Bentley blower the Lotus 7 the ferrari 250gt?
All of these manufacturers are in the game but lack any of there truly historic models.

My only assumption is Kazanori found what he chose more important/cool/awesome??(surely he could add more). But you bring up a good point for car CLASSICS that should be included for future games. :)


And I'm not saying it's NOT a racing game, but stating it's more than just a racing game.
 
About nascar, I'm english, and a big fan of formula1. I've always dismissed nascar as rubbish, without watching for any longer than 2 minutes. A few weeks ago I decided to give it a go, and was pleasantly suprised. totaly different from f1 (obviously). but still quite entertaing in it's own right. cars blowin up, gettin patched up, then sent out again. Lookin forward to racing nascar in GT5....
 
So where are cars like the Bentley blower the Lotus 7 the ferrari 250gt?
All of these manufacturers are in the game but lack any of there truly historic models.

Well, this I can agree on. It looks as though Kaz and the gang are at least moving in this direction though, as each release has delved more into historic choices.

A random thought I had while playing Prologue; there's a fairly decent chance the new 2011 GT-R could show up in the game. Considering PD's ties with Nissan, and specifically the GT-R, it's not a far-fetched idea to think they had access to these new specs for a while already, and the visual changes to the new model are small enough that it wouldn't take much to modify the current V-Spec in game. Just throwing that out there.
 
[

So gt is not a racing game ? wow forgive me but im sure 100% of the games content is racing or race orientated and if its an automotive history where are cars like the Bentley blower the Lotus 7 the ferrari 250gt?
All of these manufacturers are in the game but lack any of there truly historic models. time for a reality check it's a race game not a history lesson

Christ ALMIGHTY. :dunce:
 
Here's my opinion on the bikes on GT5 argument: I don't think the game would "feel" right with the two included, and I don't think it would do justice to either the cars or the bikes. Kart, Nascar, WRC, are all different disciplines of the same sport, but biking is a different sport altogether. At least that's my opinion. It would probably do bikes more justice to have a separate game designed around their peculiarities.
 
About nascar, I'm english, and a big fan of formula1. I've always dismissed nascar as rubbish, without watching for any longer than 2 minutes. A few weeks ago I decided to give it a go, and was pleasantly suprised. totaly different from f1 (obviously). but still quite entertaing in it's own right. cars blowin up, gettin patched up, then sent out again. Lookin forward to racing nascar in GT5....

major respect for giving nascar a chance. :)
I haven't had the privilege of going to a nascar race because i live in AK, but i have seen some sprint cars and legends racing. It is quite exhilarating to see racing at the track. Being able to see oval racing close up is what got me to stop hating it. The cars sound so raw and angry when the pedal is pushed to the floor. I can't wait to give nascar a go in GT5 :drool:
 

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