GT5 Latest News & Discussion

[irnbrutwinturbo]

It doesn't take long to recode a game for 3D. And we're not talking in the order of weeks or months, but hours.

Haven't researched it, but am i right in thinking, to get stereoscopic 3D just requires replacing the existing single camera angle with two camera angles, either side of the original camera angle, at a fixed distance apart?

 

[Famine]

Yup.

@ Famine: Have you read the Sony statement?

Yes. There is still no contradiction. GT5 is not in development for 3D. It has already been developed for it. Let's also tack on:

Sony has offered clarification about the video, saying that it hasn't officially announced any 3D-compatible titles

Of course I should also add the rider that nothing is confirmed in the game until the game is out - as I also remarked about car and track lists just yesterday.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Read what Famine said, and then see if you think it's the truth.

For arguments sake let's say it is the truth - all they needed to do was package up what they had of the game so far, and do any updates via patches and DLC as the money rolled in. After all, the game could have been released at any time according to Kaz, right?

I seriously doubt that lack of money has anything to do with it. The "delay" (for Japan at least) is a marketing move to benefit SONY and give PD more development time. Maybe it's related to 3D technology, maybe not, but this screams of marketing to me.

So, ok for arguments sake, I only posted it, beacuse I never get what they mean with production issues...
3D and marketing are no production issues, having not enough cash to get the game done is, right?
I mean, I doubt they would lie like this just for marketing, there must be a really good reason for the delay*.
Also IMO now would have been the perfect time to realease ( the game, already done to the point, where they can release it 'anytime'...). No other big games atm, fans eagerly waiting, noone cares about 3D... but all we get is a lousy 'soon' ?

Doesn't add up to me...




*( btw I take it, if it's delayed only in Japan it's delayed for me too, so it's delayed for everyone with a paypal/ creditcard ).

 

[TokyoDrift]

Haven't researched it, but am i right in thinking, to get stereoscopic 3D just requires replacing the existing single camera angle with two camera angles, either side of the original camera angle, at a fixed distance apart?

Yeah, pretty much.

So, ok for arguments sake, I only posted it, beacuse I never get what they mean with production issues...
3D and marketing are no production issues, having not enough cash to get the game done is, right?
I mean, I doubt they would lie like this just for marketing, there must be a really good reason for the delay ( btw if it's delayed only in Japan it's delayed for me too, so it's delayed for everyone with a paypal/ creditcard ).
Also IMO now would have been the perfect time to realease ( the game, already done to the point, where they can release it 'anytime', right?)... no other big games atm, fans eagerly waiting, noone cares about 3D... but all we get is a lousy 'soon' ?

Doesn't add up to me...

Nobody gets what they mean by production issues, so technically they have not lied to us. It was only delayed in Japan, so no, it wasn't delayed for everyone with PayPal or a credit card. Certainly not me as I'd never import a game.

If he said that the game was ready for release at any time, how can money have anything to do with it? You are right, nothing really adds up, but I really don't think cashflow is the cause.

 

[Pelle]

Famine, thanks for this info. I wait for the release date (probably June 15-17?) more patiently now

 

[CoolColJ]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sony-didnt-confirm-3d-for-gt5

 

[pay2021]

...I seriously doubt that lack of money has anything to do with it...

The money issue is not so crazy, when you have job project, even if you are rockefeller, you have a budget, you (PD) present a project dossier with a budget number, ex, i need 50 mill and 5 years to make GT5, and your employee (sony) aproved or not, give you the money and says you "ok, you have 5 years and 50 mill to make GT5" then you go to start the job.

THEN go 6 years and Kaz burn the money travelling around the wolrd, racing cars (lucky m*********)

Please sorry my english.

 

[Raitziger]

I would wait for reviews of 3d TVs input lags as 3d can add nasty inputlag which could infuence gaming.

 

[eran0004]

Well, I don't know what erroneous means in your language, but in English it means: "containing error; mistaken; incorrect; wrong: an erroneous answer."

So how can you interpret the phrase:

"We apologize for the erroneous inference that [a] 3D [version] of /.../ Gran Turismo 5 /.../ [is] in production."

to:

"Gran Turismo 5 is ready for release in 3D." (but apparently not in 2D...)

 

[TokyoDrift]

The money issue is not so crazy, when you have job project, even if you are rockefeller, you have a budget, you (PD) present a project dossier with a budget number, ex, i need 50 mill and 5 years to make GT5, and your employee (sony) aproved or not, give you the money and says you "ok, you have 5 years and 50 mill to make GT5" then you go to start the job.

THEN go 6 years and Kaz burn the money travelling around the wolrd, racing cars (lucky m*********)

Please sorry my english.

GT5P already went a long way to recovering a large chunk of those development costs. Releasing GT5 would completely cover those development costs, and then some. At the end of the day, IF the original budget ran out, and PD needed a further 10 million to finish the the job, SONY are not stupid. Plus, as Famine already pointed out, PD and SONY are effectively one and the same, so the return on the sales will be even greater as they get multiple cuts of the same pie.

 

[Famine]

Well, I don't know what erroneous means in your language, but in English it means: "containing error; mistaken; incorrect; wrong: an erroneous answer."

So how can you interpret the phrase:

"We apologize for the erroneous inference that [a] 3D [version] of /.../ Gran Turismo 5 /.../ [is] in production."

to:

"Gran Turismo 5 is ready for release in 3D." (but apparently not in 2D...)

I don't know what "condescension" means in your language, but it's unwelcome in mine.

You seem to be experiencing a fundamental disconnect between the concept of GT5 being developed for 3D and the concept that it already has been, since it's not a difficult process that wouldn't take the 140-man team more than a couple of hours to achieve.

You also seem unaware of the difference between Sony refusing to confirm this with them confirming the absence of it.

It's in. It's done. It's there. Sony are not confirming this.


(also, I should note that the word Sony were looking for is "implication" rather than "inference". The observer infers, not the speaker)

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

edit : The right people beat me to it.

 

[alucard0712]

Haven't researched it, but am i right in thinking, to get stereoscopic 3D just requires replacing the existing single camera angle with two camera angles, either side of the original camera angle, at a fixed distance apart?

It's in theory.How about optimization?GT5 running 1280x1080@60fps and it's surely at peak of PS3.When it's more than 4 cars it's start tearing.So how you DOUBLE framerate?Some hard choice need to be made.I know that render in 3D is NOT like render 2 different images (at different angles) - it's much faster, but anyway i don't see that GT5 has even little resources left.So optimization will take most of the time to reach 3D.Even at lower resolutions.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

It's in theory.How about optimization?GT5 running 1280x1080@60fps and it's surely at peak of PS3.When it's more than 4 cars it's start tearing.So how you DOUBLE framerate?Some hard choice need to be made.I know that render in 3D is NOT like render 2 different images (at different angles) - it's much faster, but anyway i don't see that GT5 has even little resources left.So optimization will take most of the time to reach 3D.Even at lower resolutions.

...and here i was thinking that GT5 has already been shown in 3D with more than four cars on the track at one time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09PjV3MYkz8 [excuse the stupid glasses].

As for screen tearing, i've yet to see it, i'm still not convinced it's anything more than a bad viewing setup.

 

[alucard0712]

And you know at what resolution it runs?
As for cars did you see video 3D in 60fps?You don't notice the tearing because all vids in half of the original framerate.

I don't say that's impossible.But they need to tweak engine very hard to achive 3D.To say it's already tweaked that's why we don't see 3D trees or skidmarks, or high-res livery textures or high-resolution shadows.Even reflections are artificial.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

And you know at what resolution it runs?
As for cars did you see video 3D in 60fps?You don't notice the tearing because all vids in half of the original framerate.

I don't say that's impossible.But they need to tweak engine very hard to achive 3D.To say it's already tweaked that's why we don't see 3D trees or skidmarks, or high-res livery textures or high-resolution shadows.Even reflections are artificial.

You are correct. Well done.

 

[Tenacious D]

It's possible that screen tearing depends on the TV. Some folk who have the latest HDs with a good 240hz implementation may have any issues processed out. I had a Bravia and bought an LG 47" - err... shoulda stuck with SONY - and the LG has a terrible 240hz mode, at least with games. On both sets, there was a bit of tearing every once in a while in Prologue replays when several cars were fighting on screen, and a touch of slowdown when dust was kicked up with several cars on screen. But then I saw more issues with Forza 3 which only has eight cars total.

Frankly, I think the reasons for the "delay" are this:

• GT PSP. Major project disruption here.
• SONY was playing brinksmanship with Microsoft over their racing franchises, forcing MS once again to push up F3 a month or so.
• They want a superb damage build.
• They're working on great weather effects, possibly time of day transitions.
• Fighting to get certain car franchises into the game, such as one which begins with P, or perhaps a few more tracks...
• Work on A.I.
• Working to get as many cars on track off and online in races, possibly as many as 20, plus...
• Working on good livery painting tools.

And there may be more, but it's stupid early. Thank you guvmint job... 👎

 

[Griffith500]

And you know at what resolution it runs?
As for cars did you see video 3D in 60fps?You don't notice the tearing because all vids in half of the original framerate.

I don't say that's impossible.But they need to tweak engine very hard to achive 3D.To say it's already tweaked that's why we don't see 3D trees or skidmarks, or high-res livery textures or high-resolution shadows.Even reflections are artificial.

In terms of screen area (and assuming full-screen effects are the bottleneck), 120 Hz 720p is actually less intensive than 60 Hz 1080p.

It just so happens that the standard established (between Microsoft and Sony) for 3D gaming is 120Hz 720p.


Technically, optimisations / cutbacks could be made to run in 3D at 1080p on the PS3, but the X360 can't output 120 Hz 1080p to the display anyway...

 

[alucard0712]

Ok and how you TV knows how many cars on screen?It just receive a/v signal that's all.Maybe the tearing you talk about is caused by TV filters.

I played on LCD monitor via DVI (to avoid filters and latency).Nothing changed.

Tearing because it's have no much power left.As simple as that.The game is not V-synced.I mean THAT type of tear.In GT5P first corner of Fuji framerate drops to 30...

In terms of screen area (and assuming full-screen effects are the bottleneck), 120 Hz 720p is actually less intensive than 60 Hz 1080p.

It just so happens that the standard established (between Microsoft and Sony) for 3D gaming is 120Hz 720p.


Technically, optimisations / cutbacks could be made to run in 3D at 1080p on the PS3, but the X360 can't output 120 Hz 1080p to the display anyway...

I think so too.1280x1080 have 50% more pixels.If we remember that is NO need to render polys and shadows twice maybe we can get 720px120fps.In 3D is resonable solution.And it's already OUTSTANDING performance.

(maybe they use even SPU specially to help render in 3D)

(sorry for eng!)

 

[Griffith500]

I think so too.1280x1080 have 50% more pixels.If we remember that is NO need to render polys and shadows twice maybe we can get 720px120fps.In 3D is resonable solution.And it's already OUTSTANDING performance.

(maybe they use even SPU specially to help render in 3D)

(sorry for eng!)

Assuming the same aspect ratio, going from 720p to 1080p in GT5 is an increase of 120% in terms of number of pixels, which is why it's such a big problem!
Unfortunately, you do need to render twice, since each frame has a different viewpoint, and different geometry, shadows etc. will be visible. So it has to run at 120 Hz, if we are to maintain the 60 fps minimum.

But yeah, there's no reason the PS3 can't do 3D, and it's already been demonstrated (if not in real-time)...

Given that I get slowdown at 720p in GT5, I think it's safe to assume it's not a resolution-specific graphics issue - if at all a graphics issue.
And I don't get screen tearing, since my refresh rate is set to 60 Hz and my display can actually fill the screen fast enough to avoid most of the frame aliasing - but then it's a proper display, not a TV

 

[alucard0712]

GT5 runs at 1280x1080 not 1920x1080, so it's really 50% more _true_ pixels.(it uses very fast bilinear resize in one direction to scale up to 1920x1080)
About slowdown it has been discused many times.PS3 have slow framebuffer compared to XBOX360 for example, antialiasing eats bandwith even more and it's all in 60fps.Just killer app! ))))

 

[Griffith500]

So it's not the same aspect ratio, then I assume 720p is indeed the full 16:9 1280x720 in GT5?

If it's scaling from 1280 to 1920, I don't see why it shouldn't support other aspect ratios (namely 16:10)... other than the fact that full screen effects need to take account of this, and some don't even seem to take account of FOV in GT5.

But... 1280x1080 @ 60 Hz is now less intensive on the PS3 than 1280x720 @120 Hz, so perhaps there will need to be some sacrifices in "image quality" made for 3D after all.

Of course, this has all been said. But I like to work things out for myself

 

[Pat_f40]

GT5 runs at 1280x1080 not 1920x1080, so it's really 50% more _true_ pixels.(it uses very fast bilinear resize in one direction to scale up to 1920x1080)
About slowdown it has been discused many times.PS3 have slow framebuffer compared to XBOX360 for example, antialiasing eats bandwith even more and it's all in 60fps.Just killer app! ))))

How do you guys know GT5 runs @1280x1080???

We know Prologue runs with that resolution, but since none of use has the retail copy of GT5... How you can tell me for sure that it does not run @1920x1080?

 

[GT]

I am not going to buy a 3D tv any time soon; so for me this doens't mean that much. I would rather have a great looking title than a good looking title that's 3D...but that's just me

 

[Griffith500]

How do you guys know GT5 runs @1280x1080???

We know Prologue runs with that resolution, but since none of use has the retail copy of GT5... How you can tell me for sure that it does not run @1920x1080?

Well, quite...

I'm sure PD will have optimised the hell out of the engine, so hopefully slowdown will be practically non-existent in GT5, irrespective of resolution and 3D or not. Though I expect the specific optimisations will be different for each "regime".

 

[Tapey]

It's possible that screen tearing depends on the TV. Some folk who have the latest HDs with a good 240hz implementation may have any issues processed out. I had a Bravia and bought an LG 47" - err... shoulda stuck with SONY - and the LG has a terrible 240hz mode, at least with games. On both sets, there was a bit of tearing every once in a while in Prologue replays when several cars were fighting on screen, and a touch of slowdown when dust was kicked up with several cars on screen. But then I saw more issues with Forza 3 which only has eight cars total.

Frankly, I think the reasons for the "delay" are this:

• GT PSP. Major project disruption here.
• SONY was playing brinksmanship with Microsoft over their racing franchises, forcing MS once again to push up F3 a month or so.
• They want a superb damage build.
• They're working on great weather effects, possibly time of day transitions.
• Fighting to get certain car franchises into the game, such as one which begins with P, or perhaps a few more tracks...
• Work on A.I.
• Working to get as many cars on track off and online in races, possibly as many as 20, plus...
• Working on good livery painting tools.

And there may be more, but it's stupid early. Thank you guvmint job... 👎

I think Sony is holding GT5 back until the holiday season so that they have a major franchise to put up against Halo Reach and Natal on the Xbox 360 (and everything else MS will be pumping out). I wouldn't be surprised if GT5 is finished and ready for launch as we speak, Sony is just being sensible and saving some big guns for winter.

 

[eran0004]

It may be fairly easy to convert GT5 to 3D (because it is all 3D-modelled from the start...), but still it has to be done. And according to Sony it has not been done and it is not a work in progress. Period.

What they HAVE done is that they have produced some demo shots of Gran Turismo 5 in 3D, but the intention is to show what kind of games that can be future 3D titles, however they state pretty clear that none of the titles in the 3D showcase is actually under development for 3D.

But maybe you have found some other source somewhere? It would be interesting to read it then, so please share it if you have.

 

[analog]

I am not going to buy a 3D tv any time soon; so for me this doens't mean that much. I would rather have a great looking title than a good looking title that's 3D...but that's just me

3D, PS-Move, track editor......hmmm

 

[TokyoDrift]

I think Sony is holding GT5 back until the holiday season so that they have a major franchise to put up against Halo Reach and Natal on the Xbox 360 (and everything else MS will be pumping out). I wouldn't be surprised if GT5 is finished and ready for launch as we speak, Sony is just being sensible and saving some big guns for winter.

See, while I agree that saving a major franchise for the holiday season is a good move, I don't see that it has anything to do with what MS is doing. It's not like MS have anything new in the racing arena coming out that will make people who were going to buy GT5 change their minds. Sure, a number of people who own both consoles will go out and buy Halo Reach, but then a number of people who own both will go out and buy GT5. I'm sure that initally, sales of Halo Reach will eclipse those of GT5 anyway, regardless of whether they launch in the same timeframe or not.

 

[Famine]

It may be fairly easy to convert GT5 to 3D (because it is all 3D-modelled from the start...), but still it has to be done. And according to Sony it has not been done and it is not a work in progress. Period.

No, according to Sony they have not confirmed it. It's an entirely different concept from "it has not been done".

But maybe you have found some other source somewhere? It would be interesting to read it then, so please share it if you have.

Maybe you want to read back two months to when I interviewed Penrose Tackie, the brand manager for Sony Europe?