Scaff
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- 29,459
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
I've played a fair number of racing games over the years and GT is to date the only one I can think of that has had distinctly different physics on and off line.
GT5 Update 2.09
- Thread starter wiithepeople
- 331 comments
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- 6,985
- United States
LVracerGT
Sounds way better than the sc430 sound. But it doesn't sound like a red bull. It seems to be a cross with the F10 or F2007 and i want to say a Enzo a bit (Enzo meaning with racing exhaust on it/which is garbage on my opinion).
LVracerGT
The online physics are the same as the offline physics now. I have been waiting for this for a long long time.
- 1,632
- Mass UTC-5
- HugoStiglitz_420 and GTP_HugoStiglitz
When's the last time you actually raced the X1? It doesn't sound even remotely like besides the fact that they're both high pitched. Lemme guess you also think the LFA sounds like an X1 too?
Seriously, drive your X1, then drive your HSV 010. There's no way you could be deaf enough to think they sound alike, the only reason I can think of is ignorance, because side by side they sound nothing alike
- 2,498
- Iowa, USA
- LVracerGT
Right... I get that. But are the physics more like they were online or offline? Like I said the online physics were better IMO. The cars back ends weren't planted and the cars seemed more sensitive to setup adjustments.
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
Just tried the HSV and I guess it's now closer to what it's supposed to sound like, even though I just got used to and actually liked the wrong sound. 
Anyway, drove it on the Nordschleife and it started to rain when I noticed a flaw with its wiper (in cockpit view), the rain drops move across the windscreen like they do on a Standard car and the wiper does nothing but move without function.
Has this been mentioned yet? As I can't recall it and as I perhaps didn't try it yet in the rain before, I assume this has nothing to do with this update.
Anyway, drove it on the Nordschleife and it started to rain when I noticed a flaw with its wiper (in cockpit view), the rain drops move across the windscreen like they do on a Standard car and the wiper does nothing but move without function.
Has this been mentioned yet? As I can't recall it and as I perhaps didn't try it yet in the rain before, I assume this has nothing to do with this update.
- 1,124
- TexasTyme214
From what I can tell, the physics offline have been transferred online. In other words, the online physics that you like are gone.
- 2,498
- Iowa, USA
- LVracerGT
- 5,761
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
@another_jakhole:
Saying Sony forced PD to release GT5 early is a joke when Kaz said in 2009 it could be released at anytime. I'm not even going to look for that quote, as I'm tired of bringing it up every time somebody wants to blame Sony. You should know what I'm talking about.
And I don't recall Forza or any other online racing game I've played have their vehicles react so differently in different modes. I don't even think Prologue had this issue. Why must GT5 be the only game I have with such a problem?
Saying Sony forced PD to release GT5 early is a joke when Kaz said in 2009 it could be released at anytime. I'm not even going to look for that quote, as I'm tired of bringing it up every time somebody wants to blame Sony. You should know what I'm talking about.
And I don't recall Forza or any other online racing game I've played have their vehicles react so differently in different modes. I don't even think Prologue had this issue. Why must GT5 be the only game I have with such a problem?
- 7,765
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
I disagree! I've just spent all afternoon testing, here are my findings.
The online physics are most certainly different, but not actually too much worse, let me explain. There is slightly less oversteer, only a little, & there is slightly more understeer, again only a little. Practice mode now feels exactly the same as My Lounge/online Lobby.
Also, the offline physics feel slightly different too, but in reverse. There's slightly more oversteer, & slightly less understeer. What I think they've done is to meet offline & online physics in the middle, & I have to admit to my supprise that they both feel ok now. I can put in pretty much the exact same times in Practice Mode & Online that I could before the update in only Online mode. The back end tends to kick out in 2nd gear a little aswell with ABS on 1, it used to only do this with ABS 0. It's not the game killer I assumed it would be.
👍
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
The main issue is that both are comparable.
At least the tuners only have to worry about one system.
At least the tuners only have to worry about one system.
- 2,913
- UK
- phil_75
MuoNiuLa
Really? It felt (and judging by the number of updates/fixes how can you argue) finished to you then on November 24th?
Kaz was just saying that to keep us hanging in there and to get some PS3s sold (Sony again?)
If i remember correctly, Sony had invested heavily in 3D and GT5 was one of its main showcases.
Sony needed GT5 to be released at the same time as their 3D TVs!
Kaz even said somewhere he would have liked 2 more years on it!
- 5,351
- United States
- kudos00
Some think THAT was forced and incomplete. It wasn't forced onto them, and they spent around two years working on getting the 3D to look good before the release. We can say it's four years with this update.
I'm preaching what I hear, and I'm not only saying this, but I distinctly remember thinking about Killzone + other FPS shooters (and I think Uncharted) after hearing a reason for the online/offline physics being different; FPS's were definitely referenced. I still hold what I say about other racing games. That's STILL not to say that I'm right. This is PD's first time working the online, and this is one of the things where it can't be argued that PD are incompetent when it comes to the online's support. I hear Japanese developers "hate"/aren't big up on the online portion of their games; that doesn't help.
With all of this, I'm partially answering the question I asked Muioihnhbaklba. I don't go looking for the answer that makes PD look the best. I look for and repeat the answers, good and bad, so that moaning for an unjust reason can be stopped before spreading.
"PD should have developed the physics engine to work the same online as it does offline."
It is what it is. Do you think they wanted it to be that way? Do you think they enjoyed having to waste time adding the Standard Cars that aren't up to GT's standard? Do you think they want the AI to be uncompetitive, the sounds to not be good enough, and the snow/rain be invisible on car exteriors?
There are things in GT5 that SHOULD be another way, because it's clearly possible, right then and there, to implement/change. One thing that I never hear people complain about is the lack of Weather and Time Change on track layouts that already have them.
You can't complain about that everywhere like they would Seasonal Events and sounds. It's a shame.
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- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Just tried the HSV and I guess it's now closer to what it's supposed to sound like, even though I just got used to and actually liked the wrong sound.
Anyway, drove it on the Nordschleife and it started to rain when I noticed a flaw with its wiper (in cockpit view), the rain drops move across the windscreen like they do on a Standard car and the wiper does nothing but move without function.
Has this been mentioned yet? As I can't recall it and as I perhaps didn't try it yet in the rain before, I assume this has nothing to do with this update.
The rain drops on the windshield effect has been simplified since 2.08 I think, not too sure, but I have a video from 2.07 - cockpit view in rain, does the new 2.09 have similar rain effect from cockpit view ? Have you tried any other car ? Please try the 458 Italia, see if it still has the same effect.
Ferrari 458 Italia at Monza Rain, 2:07.xxx
- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
True simulator could have different online graphics but in physics, it is not right. PD did the right thing. I bet nobody can even tell if the change was for better or worse. However the back kicking out in abs 1 sounds more realistic and weight transfer under braking is more realistic with ABS. With ABS 0, things might get even more interesting 
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
No, haven't tried any other car yet, if it's true that they're simplified for whatever reason across the board, then that's hugely disappointing and would mean the wipers serve no purpose anymore but more importantly the whole visual effect would be far less, really hope that's not the case.
- 3,455
- Brisbane
- Uriehusky
- Uriehusky
However the back kicking out in abs 1 sounds more realistic and weight transfer under braking is more realistic with ABS. With ABS 0, things might get even more interesting
The weight transfer in my 86 with 0 ABS felt pretty spot on last night, but it was the only car I drove without ABS in that session so I can't say for sure.
- 1,019
- johnkiller2
I hardly ever play offline, but online is now just major understeer. Online/offline is now probably the same which I guess is good. Unfortunately for my preference they picked the wrong one (offline) is the game is now very arcade like and there is no car control skill involved driving.
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- 8,715
I don't think he meant that they could at any moment send it to the printers, that's a lot of effort to keep an in-development piece of software in a serviceable state at all times. I think he meant that at any given moment in development, you could, in theory, draw a line under what has been completed and then start preparing it as a finalised build ready for distribution. PD decided to keep working on it, but any "extra" work they did either didn't make the cut (PS4), or simply didn't work.
On the HSV-010:
The exhaust samples sound like they're mixed down from a selection of samples, whereas the previous set-up had a mixture of separate samples from different "sets" put together to make the sound, but each sample was "pure". My initial reaction was that it sounds like a motorcycle, but that makes way for the F1 sound at high revs. The whole tone still conveys a four-cylinder (/ F1) note instead of an 8-cylinder at half the speed, like it should. The two have subtly different qualities due to the difference in effective pulse width (caused by the difference in empty spaces between exhaust valve events, and engine speed). Finally, there's the annoying "dirtiness" layered in that also affects some other cars - I hope this isn't Kaz's sexy side showing.
Additionally, the "engine" sound is a bit beefier, and ties together the 4th harmonic in the exhaust with the engine speed (2nd harmonic) and fundamental (4-stroke - 1 full cycle every two revolutions) present in the "engine" sound nicely - an important feature for this car. There appears to be some actual intake sound - at a certain point in the rev-range it almost has the DFV-like roar, but only briefly and perceptually / deceptively. It's probably also a motorcycle sample, though, (that was also my brother's first reaction when I asked him what he thought it sounded like), but it's a step forward to have an "engine" sound that isn't only mechanical in theme. That said, it might only be accidental, since it's probably harder to mask the intake (/ carburettor) sound on a motorcycle when recording the "engine" sound.
I don't think it's the case that they've not been near the HSV with recording equipment, and they must have used something to refer to to make these corrections, even if they haven't used the recording to make new samples with. The balance of the engine and exhaust samples in exterior views, for instance, is better / closer to reality than it was before, and the exhaust is less prominent in the interior now (which normally would be a disaster, but those carbs prevent that here). The sources seem more directional, though, which means you can't hear the exhaust at all really on approach, which isn't quite right. I'll blame that on the quiet reverb, though, which is a systemic issue.
It's still perplexing why they should be using pre-existing loops at all for so many cars at this point. What are they planning?
- 8,715
The interior sound is very different from the exterior sound for the HSV-010 (as it should be) - that's not quite true of the F1 cars. The exhaust sound, as I mentioned above, seems to be a motorbike sample (i.e. from TT) in the low revs, switching to the F1 sound at high rpm. On top of this is the "dirtification layer" mixed into the samples, to try to account / compensate for the difference in tonality of four cylinders per pipe relative to 8 cylinders per pipe at half the speed.
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