GT5's reaction to EA's lock down on Porsche, Pagani Huayra, etc.

[Kwicko]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't GT5 launch with well over 1000 cars in it, compared to the afore-mentioned 500 or so in FM4?

 

[Samus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't GT5 launch with well over 1000 cars in it, compared to the afore-mentioned 500 or so in FM4?

Have you actually ready any posts I or others have made?

 

[sheepborg]

But as above when you really look at it the choice isn't that great if you don't want an 90s or 00s Japanese car. I mean really look at it like this, of all 1000+ cars in GT5 502 of them are Japanese cars built after 1990. That's just about half.

The year range is realistically from 1960 to 2010 about. So in the game, half of the cars are from 2/5ths of the year range... Which is not all bad considering post 90s is when most of the videogameable cars have been out. Personally i wont ever drive a skyline since i dislike the things and i cannot see a reason for so many of them. The miatas make sense though, there is a spec miata race, and spec miata racing is fairly popular compared to others.

Aside from that, lets just third the japanese cars to get the ones that we actually might want. So that is 700 or so cars, still a huge enough number.
In that 700 we get everything from trucks, to muscle cars, to stuff like a hommel most of us have never heard of.

Complain as much as you will about marketing (have you ever read the sales pitch on the side of a smartwater bottle? now that was BS)

It is my personal opinion that despite the 70% good car figure, there is a great variety for what it is. And with that comes fun cars like the karmen ghia, and other oddities like that.

Another thing is, quit being so selfish. The game was CREATED in JAPAN, and it is sold in japan as well as world wide. Japanese players will be plenty happy, and everywhere else will be less happy. The world doesnt revolve around the west you know.

No raging intended of course, but this is kinda ridiculous

As a note, i HATE HATE HATE nfs titles.

EDIT: I dont even like the selection of premium cars. All of them seem to have less character.
I use 95% standard cars, including my irl car which was included as one of those 800 standards.
I appreciate and enjoy the standards, especially with the cockpit and wheel changing now.

 

[Kwicko]

Have you actually ready any posts I or others have made?

Yes, and I was responding specifically to this one:

To be honest, I was trying to single out their obsession with car detail, which can be both good and bad.

When we look at how many cars they produced for GT5 (pre-DLC), and we compare it other franchises like Forza, we see FAR fewer cars. Since GT4, there have been 3 Forza titles (technically they all came out after but let's not aruge that too much). Now, this is not about ratings or gameplay, simply the sheer numbers of cars. I believe Forza 4 had about 500 at launch. With their DLC packs, I think it's upwards to 550. GT5 is struggling to reach 300.

At any rate, it's about the sheer number of cars being produced. While GT5 DLC offers a random number (15 touring cars in the 1st batch and 4 cars in the 2nd batch), Forza pumps out about 10 on average/pack. And PD is behind. For some reason. There has to be a reason. That's the main idea we want to explore. Staff? Super detail? Who knows?

 

[Tornado]

Another thing is, quit being so selfish. The game was CREATED in JAPAN, and it is sold in japan as well as world wide. Japanese players will be plenty happy, and everywhere else will be less happy. The world doesnt revolve around the west you know.

It revolves far more around the locations where it sells in dramatically higher numbers than it does the home market just because it is the home market.

 

[Samus]

Another thing is, quit being so selfish. The game was CREATED in JAPAN, and it is sold in japan as well as world wide. Japanese players will be plenty happy, and everywhere else will be less happy. The world doesnt revolve around the west you know..

How many times is this poor excuse going to get thrown around? Being Japanese doesn't mean they need to be so Japanese centric just like T10 being American doesn't mean they need to be so US centric. Which they aren't.

Also you mention that the Japanese love it, well clearly they don't that much. According to VGChartz of the 7 million sales for GT5 1.6 million of them are in the US, 3.3 million are in Europe and just 600,000 are in Japan.

So maybe Kaz should look at these numbers and start catering to his biggest markets more because from those numbers it clearly isn't Japan.

Yes, and I was responding specifically to this one:

Well he was talking about NEW models. 800 odd cars in GT5 are not new models, they're from GT4 and beyond.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't GT5 launch with well over 1000 cars in it, compared to the afore-mentioned 500 or so in FM4?

This is correct. But this is not the best argument out there. About 830 of them were created when the "premium" notion didn't exist. It took little/much less work to make those GT4 cars. Standard cars are on the way out.

Forza has many cars that have had a lot of work done to them and they were produced in far less time.

Premium cars are the future. Standards are on their way out. PD's begun, but looking at the DLC's pace and quantity, it seems they'll still be far behind with their current staff or their current priorities for GT's future.

The next DLC should be very indicative of PD's intent. While Turn10 immediately grabbed the Huayra (which EA controlled for some time), let's see if PD has a rabbit to pull out of their hat. Or let's see if they have another R35, Super Pink edition.

 

[GT55YW]

It revolves far more around the locations where it sells in dramatically higher numbers than it does the home market just because it is the home market.

Putting myself in the shoes of a Japanese GT5 gamer, as in PD was based in the US, I wouldn't really be amazed by the Japanese car market. I mean unless I was specifically super interested in Miata's or Skylines, it doesn't make much of a difference which ones or how many different kinds there are.

As in even a vehicle with the rich history of the Mustang, I wouldn't want so much focus on just a few American brands. Regardless that all chryslers are pitiful, and that GM could have made a lot more out of themselves, if we had 500 models from the three of them over the past twenty years, it would seem like quite a waste.
Just saying it seems less focused even on Japan and what it wants, rather than maybe a specific individual who has a strong focus on one specific area.

 

[McClarenDesign]

If getting Porsches means more whining on here, then EA can keep 'em.

 

[Kwicko]

Well he was talking about NEW models. 800 odd cars in GT5 are not new models, they're from GT4 and beyond.

This is correct. But this is not the best argument out there. About 830 of them were created when the "premium" notion didn't exist. It took little/much less work to make those GT4 cars. Standard cars are on the way out.

Forza has many cars that have had a lot of work done to them and they were produced in far less time.

Premium cars are the future. Standards are on their way out. PD's begun, but looking at the DLC's pace and quantity, it seems they'll still be far behind with their current staff or their current priorities for GT's future.

The next DLC should be very indicative of PD's intent. While Turn10 immediately grabbed the Huayra (which EA controlled for some time), let's see if PD has a rabbit to pull out of their hat. Or let's see if they have another R35, Super Pink edition.

Good points, and thanks for clarifying. You're right, of course - premiums are the future. Premium is the new normal for Gran Turismo, or damned well should be.

I definitely don't want another "GT v. Forza" thread, and I'd love to see PD get their hands on the Porsche marque, the Huaraya, the Aventador, and whatever else they can!

 

[GT55YW]

If getting Porsches means more whining on here, then EA can keep 'em.

Well, if we get Porsche and just like Maserati, Bentley, Buick, Cadillac, and so on and they have an entire brand with a huge history, but they make one car...

Then yea, there will definitely by whining.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Good points, and thanks for clarifying. You're right, of course - premiums are the future. Premium is the new normal for Gran Turismo, or damned well should be.

I definitely don't want another "GT v. Forza" thread, and I'd love to see PD get their hands on the Porsche marque, the Huaraya, the Aventador, and whatever else they can!

Forza is great for GT, and vice versa. Competition will keep both games fresh. And if you own both consoles, there's no excuse to not own both. 👍 I know I would if I did.

 

[GT55YW]

Forza is great for GT, and vice versa. Competition will keep both games fresh. And if you own both consoles, there's no excuse to not own both. 👍 I know I would if I did.

At least with Forza 1-3, one cannot change anything on the controller. So if you have Forza, you should get GT5. But if you have GT5 and you get Forza, you will also have an eruption of blood from your nose while trying to work the controls.


*They may have added into 4, the ability to change controller setting, and I say this from my own experience trying to play it.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

At least with Forza 1-3, one cannot change anything on the controller. So if you have Forza, you should get GT5. But if you have GT5 and you get Forza, you will also have an eruption of blood from your nose while trying to work the controls.

*They may have added into 4, the ability to change controller setting, and I say this from my own experience trying to play it.

Or if you have GT5 and you get Forza your PS3 will get extremely dusty....

And, yes there are default controller configuration options.

 

[GT55YW]

Or if you have GT5 and you get Forza your PS3 will get extremely dusty....

And, yes there are default controller configuration options.

Sorry, not trying to cause a flame war, I just didn't know if you could customize the 4 controller or not. My buddy just got 3 and I was rubbish trying to drive with that control setting, which could not be adjusted.

I am not saying one is better than the other, just that from Forza 3 to GT5, one can adjust button layout however they like. Is Forza 4 completely customizable or is it just an option of different layouts? I am not asking because it makes a difference, I am more curious if I should think about getting it for my wife's 360.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Sorry, not trying to cause a flame war, I just didn't know if you could customize the 4 controller or not. My buddy just got 3 and I was rubbish trying to drive with that control setting, which could not be adjusted.

I am not saying one is better than the other, just that from Forza 3 to GT5, one can adjust button layout however they like. Is Forza 4 completely customizable or is it just an option of different layouts? I am not asking because it makes a difference, I am more curious if I should think about getting it for my wife's 360.

You can choose between different presets. Odds are whatever you are trying to accomplish with button mapping they have it covered. I can't remember off the top of my head how many there are. However, if you are looking for look left / look right mapping onto the wheel itself there is a preset for that (because that is the one I use for cockpit view). If you do only have a controller then of course you can swap to the left and right triggers for analog sensitivity of brake and throttle.

Regardless, it is worth renting at the very least if you already own a 360.

I am not going to mention names (incase they don't want me to) but there are moderators with loads of actual racing time on here who think extremely highly of Forza's physics and... dare I say it... slight supremacy over GT5.

But, back on topic. We all know it is pretty obvious that T10 had the Huarya modeled and ready to go once the EA licensing agreement was up. I can almost guarantee you, in fact I would put alot of money on it, that they already have Porsches modeled; most likely even for Autovista.

I wish PD showed this much planning and initiative.

 

[TeggD]

Now that the vacation is over the forza bots are back I guess.

GT has been in worse situations with car lists before. Lamborghini and Ferrari are in GT5.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Now that the vacation is over the forza bots are back I guess.

GT has been in worse situations with car lists before. [Lamborghini and Ferrari are in GT5].

After 5 installations, they finally snagged them......

In terms of premium dealerships, GT5 is lacking very many. From luxury Cadillacs, to super luxurious Bentleys, to hyper rides like Koenigsegg, Bugatti or Gumpert, to classics like Pontiac, Plymouth and De Tomaso. Can't forget RUF, either. Untouched since GT4. There is plenty of room for improvement.

 

[TeggD]

There is always room for improvement till every car ever made is in the game.

 

[AnPrionsaBeag]

Quite frankly, PD are taking advantage of the fact they've no competition on the PS3. Should FM4 be available on all platforms, I'd certainly give it a try but as I'm not going to buy an Xbox for just one game, I'll have to stick to GT5. I trust many of us are also in my case. No rivalry equals no emulation and in the gaming industry, when you rest on your laurels, you're slowly but surely being left behind.

As for diversity, as SimonK clearly showed, GT5 is heavily biased and I find it rather annoying, let alone unfair from an automotive point of view. There are so many relevant cars missing in the lineup that European and American players have a legitimate right to feel frustrated about PD's priorities and choices. Again, Forza4 and Shift2 for instance are much more balanced.

On topic now, I'd like some transparency from Kaz and PD about why no efforts seem to be made to include recent supercars and premium RUFs. They're so secretive it's irritating. If most of the profits goes to the GT Academy and the partnership with Nissan, then it's very wrong. As the number of comments show in the News section, very few people actually care about Lucas Ordoñez or Jordan Tresson's careers in the real racing world whereas announcing an update or DLC will generate hundreds of replies.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Quite frankly, PD are taking advantage of the fact they've no competition on the PS3. Should FM4 be available on all platforms, I'd certainly give it a try but as I'm not going to buy an Xbox for just one game, I'll have to stick to GT5. I trust many of us are also in my case.

I feel the same way. I am in the same situation. I enjoy the GT series a lot, but I don't really want to buy another console for ONE game. Since it's the only sim on the PS consoles, it will sell well no matter what.

On topic now, I'd like some transparency from Kaz and PD about why no efforts seem to be made to include recent supercars and premium RUFs. They're so secretive it's irritating.

+1,000,000

 

[stigs lil bro]

Don't confuse pure numbers with diversity. The GT5 car selection is not diverse, not greatly anyway. It has 1000 cars but 600 of those are from one country. That is already not very diverse. Imagine I had 1000 bottles of beer but 600 were from Belgium, that doesn't make the selection diverse, not worldwide anyway which the car market is.

I'm not sure what are you trying to say here Belgian beers mmmm.. haha

Anyway, this thread full of logical fallacies and it is quite hard to find any reasonable discussions here, which are by the way, mostly off topic. Biggest argument stated in Turn 10 favour is that they have more resources available, therefore they are more effective. I'm just going to point out this:

The premise behind this topic is to discuss and raise awareness on two brands in the game that are either not presented fully or at all due to various reasons.

Now, as for Huayra. AFAIK, and I am sounding apologetic here, the car was made available by turn 10 to Forza gamers, coincidentally, in normal one month release, as in January DLC.
For statements against PD for not releasing Pagani yet, they are wrong (so far) because it is not February yet and even if it skips on that one, it might be in April's DLC.

As for the comparison (which I still think it is not fair or necessary) on the number of cars or where they are from, well, GT series are from Japan, they started with PS1 and just now while Forza 4 is out, it is getting expected for PD to do same by some.

At the end, for Turismos sake, stop comparing the two! Enjoy your Forza heaven, and quit bashing GT in this thread!

 

[Tornado]

I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to be implying.

 

[stigs lil bro]

I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to be implying.

It implies lack of imagination on my part You seem to have in abundance

EDIT: sorry, for some reason image was not loaded in the reply, only my username hahaha...

If one pregnant woman can deliver in 9 months than nine pregnant women could deliver in one month.
Relates to age old argument that is repeated over and over and that is how turn 10 is churning cars out much faster than PD cause they have more resources available..

I'm not justifying slowness on PDs part, however I do accept is, same as I accepted 6 yrs of waiting for a sequel if that means that it will get close to reality as possible. They overdid it a bit, to extent that current GT5 cannot be rendered in amount KY wanted to and probably will be in GT6/PS4

 

[Samus]

That picture really doesn't make any sense.

 

[stigs lil bro]

That picture really doesn't make any sense.

How?

What I'm trying to convey with it is that by increasing the labour force the effect does not necessarily mean how product of the labour is going to be done proportionally faster and be of same quality.

It can't be a problem that PD performance relating to car expansion is amount of people working on the project as common argument seems to imply in many places in this thread and on the forum in general.
Problem might lie in overdoing the details, but that is a totally different point and has nothing to do with how many people they have available.

 

[drivingmeinsane]

For those of you who worry about poor Porshe keep this in mind about Porshe mindset...

I remember a few years ago watching a program about super car manufacturers. when it came time for Porshe and it's execs to be interviewed they were asked -i can't remember this verbatim, so it's along the lines of-"why do you not produce more cars per month even though you have the capacity to do so and there is quite a long wating list for new Porshe cars? how many cars do you make a month?" the exec replied "we make 14 cars a month and can comfortably produce 18 if needs be...maybe we will produce 18 this month, who knows!?!" and chuckled.

As i said that was a few years back, so no idea what the manufacturing output is today.


Edit:

Dunno if this has been posted or not:

The Pagani Huayra was officially debuted online with many pictures in a press release on January 25, 2011. The official world debut was at the Geneva Auto Salon 2011 in March.

EA secured the exclusive video game rights to the Pagani Huayra in 2011, available exclusively in Need for Speed titles in 2011, Shift 2: Unleashed and Need for Speed: The Run. This license expired on the 31st of December 2011. The Pagani Huayra is scheduled to appear in the Jalopnik January DLC Car Pack for Forza Motorsport 4 along with other cars like the Ford Pinto, the Alfa Romeo Montreal and seven others.


Taken from Wikipedia, so no idea if that is accurate

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

For those of you who worry about poor Porshe keep this in mind about Porshe mindset...

I remember a few years ago watching a program about super car manufacturers. when it came time for Porshe and it's execs to be interviewed they were asked -i can't remember this verbatim, so it's along the lines of-"why do you not produce more cars per month even though you have the capacity to do so and there is quite a long wating list for new Porshe cars? how many cars do you make a month?" the exec replied "we make 14 cars a month and can comfortably produce 18 if needs be...maybe we will produce 18 this month, who knows!?!" and chuckled.

Blah blah

Good god. Use Google and figure out how to spell "Porshe" if you are going to tell us about it.

And yes the licensing agreement ended; I was driving my Huayra on Infineon tonight.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I know this would be somewhat off-topic. But has anyone noticed that Porsche isn't the only 'car' that has a complete lockdown at EA?

-> This very '97-'99 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX:

^ Also known as the last great Eclipse in history is not featured on ANY game other than in all NFS games (starting on FnF-tasitic Unleashed 1).

-> While Forza 4 had the pre-facelifted GSX, and PD-crew only had the International-spec Eclipse (aka. GS-T A/T, on which I saw that very car brand new back in PI 14 years ago!).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Why? EA are willing to pay the money for exclusive licences because they want their games to have something other driving games don't, good on them, they're spending big money to keep their customers happy. Maybe Sony should do the same and stop being so tight fisted and also, it's not as if Sony can't buy the rights to use these cars from EA, they can but they're just not willing to part with the cash to do so.

Hating on a company because they spend money to give something exclusive to their loyal customers is just plain stupid and whether the NFS games are arcade or not is just plain irrelevant.

By the way, there's a ton of supercar manufacturers out there who don't have an exclusive licence with EA or any other games company and don't have their cars in GT5 like Koenigsegg, Ariel, Gumpert, Noble, Ascari, Keating, Caparo, Spyker, SSC, Rolls-Royce (technically not a supercar manufacturer but prestigious nonetheless), etc etc etc.....
and lets not forget how the licences Sony and PD do have are underutilized in GT5, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bugatti, TVR, Bentley all have cars that are ignored in GT5, so what's the point of them getting Porsche and throwing in a token 5 cars and missing the rest?

I have to agree with this post as I've scanned the pages back and forth. This one here makes a lot of sense. Though I would gladly say that the same could be said for EA. Everyone knows they're a monopoly of the gaming world or try to be. However, the problem I see is if you're going to get an exclusivity clause to a manufacture then build a game that is actually good, and not a cheap trick or rehash to just make some money back on the exclusivity that you just paid for. Sony/PD are just as guilty like Stephen says here.

There are plenty of legendary and amazing cars that new car enthusiast and racing gamers don't know about and would be privileged to drive and have modeled to great detail. This is a big problem I have with both gaming companies. You have this license but none of the cars that made the car company what it is today. Nor do you even give the said company a long list of cars to show them the respect they deserve or understanding of automobile history, because of abilities like DLC.

I have yet to see a modern console game or even one from years past on any console that has a Gulf Porsche from the 70s or the Porsche GT1, and many other titans. Same goes for GT, for example all the years of having Aston martin I have yet to see one of the GT1 cars or GT2 cars that were around for years, not even their very succesful DBR1-2. That's just one car manufacture and we're not talking about their cars that made them a big name like the DB3, 4, and 5.