GT7 & PSVR2

[gtrotary]

I’m not sure about you, but I was very disappointed with GT Sport and the original PSVR. It was essentially a glorified demo.

What are the chances that GT7 gets full PSVR2 support with no caveats? I’m hopeful, but probably shouldn’t be. VR in GT7 sounds like a great idea, but I don’t see many sim racers that actually use VR. You can find a ton of videos from several years ago on YouTube of people sim racing in VR, but not recently. With no support for triple or ultra wide screens on consoles, it seems GT is always destined to be just an “simcade”.

Does VR have a long term place in sim racing?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

VR absolutely has a long term place, and foveated rendering could solve the problems PSVR faced. GT Sport couldn't deliver the whole game in VR yet with foveated rendering, plus GT7 already able to fully run on ps4, it should be entirely possible to deliver the full game in PSVR2 on PS5.

However we're dealing with PD here. I'll be getting PSVR 2 day one anyway, but will expect the worst when it comes to GT7. Chances are it will be a buggy port from GT Sport's VR offerings.

VR is the only way to enjoy cockpit mode imo. Hopefully PSVR 2 fixes the granny problem, slowly sinking behind the wheel I had to press reset position about twice a lap!

 

[Hazel]

Does VR have a long term place in sim racing?

YES!
If you get the chance try ACC in VR on a high end pc. Well, unless you suffer from motion sickness.
Fully immersive and far more natural; you want to check you're clear of the car you passed? turn and look in mirror or directly over shoulder.

BUT, it is fully immersive, you cannot interact with stuff not shown in headset; so streamers lose access to stream chat, etc....
Plus you do look a bit silly in a VR headset at the moment

I was an early access player of both ACC and Kartikraft; the VR started bad and improved dramatically. Hoping for good things from PSVR2 but it will be PS5 only (at least it should be as even PS4 Pro just doesn't have the processing power)

 

[LeastR]

GT7 full access on PSVR2?
All I can say is god I hope so. I have a basic rig in my cellar, and if I can play the full game including Sport mode in full VR, I will probably move into the cellar permanently :-)

 

[B80]

I’m not sure about you, but I was very disappointed with GT Sport and the original PSVR. It was essentially a glorified demo.

What are the chances that GT7 gets full PSVR2 support with no caveats? I’m hopeful, but probably shouldn’t be. VR in GT7 sounds like a great idea, but I don’t see many sim racers that actually use VR. You can find a ton of videos from several years ago on YouTube of people sim racing in VR, but not recently. With no support for triple or ultra wide screens on consoles, it seems GT is always destined to be just an “simcade”.

Does VR have a long term place in sim racing?

Google iracing vr or iracing display. They generally recommend vr or 3 screens...

 

[KZeni]

VR is definitely demanding with consoles being more modestly priced compared to what's possible with top-end PC hardware. GT Sport showed just how demanding it is to have what's effectively a dual screen output with a high & stable FPS (generally wanting to be at 90fps or above with no stutters or drops for a good VR experience.)

You can even see it with the way split-screen has been handled in the Gran Turismo series as well... the second perspective being rendered has them reducing the number of cars in a race and/or reducing visual fidelity to make it possible while maintaining a good FPS.

Now, GT7 is cross-gen so PS5 could make the rendering quality more akin to the PS4 when in VR to improve FPS while ideally not needing to create those assets/settings from scratch. Also PSVR2 will includes some great new tech like foveated rendering and eye tracking (as well as the PS5 having its own improvements with guaranteeing an SSD, improved dynamic resolution scaling, improved shader handling, etc.) so it should be able to be more efficient in serving up the level of quality & complexity one might want/expect compared to GT Sport's VR mode. Also GT7 is better than GTS in having cars offer in-car views (I recall some cars in GTS simply didn't have an in-car view at all so VR with that car obviously wouldn't work), but I have seen some cars in GT7 where being in-car and looking back doesn't render the interior like it does with others (hopefully this was a case where the rear view of the car just doesn't let you see what's behind you so they did it as a gameplay concession rather than the interior missing that part & them wanting to hide that fact.) Does that mean we'll be able to have the full set of tracks, cars, number of cars in a race, etc.? Only time will tell.

That all being said, they haven't announced it having VR at all so far. I'd still be happy with a VR mode similar to GTS over not having VR at all (being able to actually look around inside & drive those cars in VR is great even when it's just a head-to-head race or whatever it needs to be.) However, it doesn't seem like it should be impossible to get this expanded to the full experience (which is definitely what people would want) where it can then be considered one of the top games for VR. We just need to see if they want to make the concessions on rendering quality (ideally using foveated rendering to improve the perceivable impact of this), resolution (at least considering the native display resolution of the headset vs what dynamic resolution scaling & foveated rendering might need to do), etc. that might be required to make it happen. Also, it could come after PSVR2 launches after things mature and/or they have a team able to put this all together.

 

[LeastR]

I agree that the fact that GT7 runs on PS4 could be the key to full VR implementation on PS5. I haven't seen the PS4 version running, but I assume it's perfectly fine.

Basically, I would suspect that getting the PS4 version to run twice at a high framrate shouldn't be too big an ask for the PS5 - specially considering the clever stuff the PSVR2 will do; foveatesld rendering, and whatever is the updated version of asynchronous time warp from the PSVR

I really, really want this game in VR, all of it would be best, bring it on Polyphany! Come on, you know you want to, and what a VR flagship it would be for Sony...

 

[sonnyboychris]

I’m not sure about you, but I was very disappointed with GT Sport and the original PSVR. It was essentially a glorified demo.

What are the chances that GT7 gets full PSVR2 support with no caveats? I’m hopeful, but probably shouldn’t be. VR in GT7 sounds like a great idea, but I don’t see many sim racers that actually use VR. You can find a ton of videos from several years ago on YouTube of people sim racing in VR, but not recently. With no support for triple or ultra wide screens on consoles, it seems GT is always destined to be just an “simcade”.

Does VR have a long term place in sim racing?

I was disappointed too but it made sense. They weren't just developing for the PS-Pro, it had to run on the original PS4 as well. As I understand it, console developers try not to split their userbases. That's why it didn't reach it's full potential. IIRC the PS4 Pro was capable of a full grid in VR.

Hopefully that won't be an issue for GT7. I'm planning on getting the PSVR2 as soon as GT7 support is announced but only if it's fully featured. Every car, every track and Sport mode need to be playable in VR.

I've been vocal in my disappointment regarding FFB in GT7, however I don't need it to be as hardcore as ACC. There's a place for GT7 to be palatable to less hardcore racers but with great FFB and road feel. Hopefully VR is added to ACC and we'll have the best of both worlds.

 

[LeastR]

I love GT7, don't really want to knock it - but if I play ACC with my DD Pro the feedback difference is night and day, GT7 is pretty simplistic in comparison. But! When I've been playing GT7 for a few mins I forget about all of that, and it feels good enough to me overall.

I think VR GT7 would occupy an awesome place in the racing game market. Okay the detail of a full sim is not there in many ways, but for fun racing, sometimes absolutely exhilarating races in Sport mode, and a range of cars and tracks not really matched elsewhere, it would be... totally great in VR.

I'd love some point to point tracks, too. Imaging 30 miles of slightly fantastical coast road...

 

[KZeni]

Oh, and let's not forget that Sony has teased GT7 (although informally since I don't think they ever called it Gran Turismo) with their new VR tech in a demonstration they did during Sony Technology Day late last year. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/8/...ay-presentation-vr-oled-screens-robot-grabber (also covered on GTPlanet at https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-7-8k-oled-vr-20211215/) had what looks to be the GT7 Cafe scene with some stationary cars you could walk around running on a developmental dual-4k (8k, combined) VR headset. Now, I don't think it was said what hardware the demo was running on (I'd assume it'd be more towards a PC/development kit rather than PS5 hardware.)

Also, keep in mind that their demo was for a headset with a total of 8k for both eyes (two 4k displays; they were primarily demoing the latest quality of their VR-ready display tech) whereas PSVR2 is more akin to a total of 4k for both eyes (while then split & squared off a bit to be 2000x2040 per eye [4k is 8.3MP while those 2 screens in PSVR2 come out to be a total of 8.16MP so it's actually a little less than 4k total.]) So that's either really promising for GT7 being worked on to be able to run VR with the PS5 then being more likely to meet that lower resolution than what they showed, or it should be taken at face value where they were showing off the headset tech while it was actually a high-end PC running it and/or it was a standalone demo that was largely isolated from the GT7 game.

One would like to think that was using the GT7 game engine where they're testing & developing for PSVR2 and that's all they were ready to reveal at the time (then just boosting the resolution for that one headset tech demo), and they'll have more to show in the future. It seems like multiple game outlets have called for GT7 to gain PSVR2 support & claiming it would be a flagship title for PSVR2 if they were to do it so it's not just us thinking this.

 

[Nathan88]

Resident Evil Village is a modern cross-gen title. The PSVR2 iteration has had rave previews for performance & image quality. That’s the demo that convinced me a full GT7 VR version is highly likely.

Of course, PSVR2 will only be compatible with PS5. So that gives headroom on the base specs.

 

[Nathan88]

I guess this is the best place for dedicated PSVR2 talk.

 

[snc]

I guess this is the best place for dedicated PSVR2 talk.

First I was happy reading this then I read showroom, if they again sepratate vr2 from main game I will be pissed.

 

[Nathan88]

First I was happy reading this then I read showroom, if they again sepratate vr2 from main game I will be pissed.

PSVR2 is PS5 only. And PS5 is more than powerful enough to deliver a full GT7 experience. GTS had a showroom VR mode.

I’m assuming the kiosk mode is for PSVR2 demo units.

 

[BigSarj]

PSVR2 is PS5 only. And PS5 is more than powerful enough to deliver a full GT7 experience. GTS had a showroom VR mode.

I’m assuming the kiosk mode is for PSVR2 demo units.

This is PD we're talking about. At best, it will be showroom mode to walk around a car and look at it. That and another special VR race mode. Daily races or menu books or arcade mode will likely not be available in VR mode.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see full VR integration with GT7.

 

[Artremis]

This is PD we're talking about. At best, it will be showroom mode to walk around a car and look at it. That and another special VR race mode. Daily races or menu books or arcade mode will likely not be available in VR mode.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see full VR integration with GT7.

I'm pretty sure Kaz has stated on an interview some years ago how he was disappointed with how limiting GTS VR had to be and that he sees VR as a promising technology. GTS VR being so limited was exclusively due to the limited power of the PS4, on a PS5 there's no reason not to do the full game in VR.

 

[Nathan88]

This is PD we're talking about. At best, it will be showroom mode to walk around a car and look at it. That and another special VR race mode. Daily races or menu books or arcade mode will likely not be available in VR mode.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see full VR integration with GT7.

Limitations in GTS where largely down to the technology. PS4 was barely upto the job. PS4 Pro was a little better with improved performance & image quality.

This time around PS5 will be the base console spec. Given GT7 is cross-gen, it should also give PD some performance headroom for the PSVR2 build.

I’m still not 100% convinced everything in GT7 will be accessible in PSVR2. But there’s no technical reason not to have full grid races.

 

[Nathan88]

PSVR2 production started. Sony planning 2m units for launch. For comparison PSVR1 sold 1m in 8 months.

Sony Betting Big on Next VR Headset With Increased Production Plan

Sony Group Corp. plans to make 2 million units of the PlayStation VR2 headset by March next year, people familiar with the matter said, setting an ambitious outlook that defies the global economic malaise.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[true_kiat]

The thing is, why did they scrap PSVR1 support in GT7? I want to see the new cars in the virtual showroom and be able to race them from inside, come on.

 

[KZeni]

@true_kiat It's likely due to them not wanting to work on & juggle two totally separate headset technologies (while the PS5 only supports PSVR1 when it comes to a PS4 game running via backwards compatibility with the PSVR2 being what's needed for PS5 games that support VR so a PS5 with PSVR1 will end up needing to download & run the PS4 version of the game due to the PS5 separating the PSVR headset support into those two console generations; playing the PS5 game with PSVR1 simply isn't supported at the console-level.) Also, I'd hate to see them hamstrung (or otherwise needing to juggle two different scopes of gameplay & features) by needing to have the PS4 come into play with the VR capabilities & its possible scope of gameplay to any extent when they could make it PS5 only and just get the best out of the new headset & console power for a greater scope of gameplay (they'd have the GTS-equivalent of limited VR when on PS4 & PSVR1 while then also having a different VR mode for PS5 & PSVR2 or something, or heaven forbid, just have that same GTS VR mode be used for GT7 even on PS5 by keeping it unified and have it work on the lowest common denominator... I don't think that's the best outcome or use of their resources.)

It kinda just makes sense that GT7 would be PSVR2-only (though even that is unconfirmed)... putting in work to make it use the effectively deprecated headset just doesn't seem worthwhile if they can focus on getting a better experience than last time by just focusing on PS5 and PSVR2 support. They already made the game cross-gen so it's not like PS4 players are being ignored while doing the same for PSVR1 seems a step too far where the userbase isn't there (at least one that isn't likely to upgrade to PSVR2 at some point), they'd really be taking resources that could be used elsewhere (ex. making the PSVR2 support better) to make that less-than-ideal PSVR1 setup, etc.

 

[true_kiat]

Thanks for your detailed exposition, @KZeni, but I don't think it'd be so detrimental to their work on PSVR2, it's just porting what they already have on PS4. As you say, PSVR1 is just a PS4 thing and it's already up and running. I get that it's just a marketing move towards PS5 and PSVR2, to don't give a confusing message and avoid unjustified criticism. It's sad, but I get it.

Or just, put the new cars in GTsport too xD

 

[Nathan88]

Thanks for your detailed exposition, @KZeni, but I don't think it'd be so detrimental to their work on PSVR2, it's just porting what they already have on PS4. As you say, PSVR1 is just a PS4 thing and it's already up and running. I get that it's just a marketing move towards PS5 and PSVR2, to don't give a confusing message and avoid unjustified criticism. It's sad, but I get it.

Or just, put the new cars in GTsport too xD

There isn’t going to be any PSVR software backward compatibility on PSVR2. Some took this news badly. But by all accounts, many of the most popular titles are being updated/remastered for PSVR2. Both controls & graphics overhaul.

I guess it could be like PS4 to PS5 with a fee to upgrade your existing copy. Or, you never know, free!

 

[Nathan88]

PSVR2 will launch on February 22nd. Pre-orders from November 15th. I assume we’ll get numerous State of Plays before then to showcase the hardware & software.

 

[Fezzik]

Given the reaction to the slow update pace so far and lack of new tracks, I'm sure it will go great if PD announce a VR mode instead.

 

[Nebuc72]

Given the reaction to the slow update pace so far and lack of new tracks, I'm sure it will go great if PD announce a VR mode instead.

If it's a full implementation I can respect it. Racing in VR is an absolute game changer with a wheel and I've seen a lot of people hoping they go all out with it for GT7.

If it's just a tiny portion of the game again though, yeah.. people aren't going to be too happy.

 

[Nathan88]

Some more VR Showroom screens.

 

[MroczMR]

Some more VR Showroom screens.

I hope this is not all they have been doing for VR...

 

[oqvist]

I’m not sure about you, but I was very disappointed with GT Sport and the original PSVR. It was essentially a glorified demo.

What are the chances that GT7 gets full PSVR2 support with no caveats? I’m hopeful, but probably shouldn’t be. VR in GT7 sounds like a great idea, but I don’t see many sim racers that actually use VR. You can find a ton of videos from several years ago on YouTube of people sim racing in VR, but not recently. With no support for triple or ultra wide screens on consoles, it seems GT is always destined to be just an “simcade”.

Does VR have a long term place in sim racing?

On the pc side vr have a firm foothold for simracing. Its a total gamechanger.

 

[MroczMR]

To be honest seeing VR Showroom as a button in "normal mode" GT7 does give me hope that it will be just "VR support in all aspects of game" instead of VR dedicated mode...

In GT Sport you needed to launch separate game mode to play in VR, here we see VR's features UI elements in normal Menu.

 

[Fezzik]

Some more VR Showroom screens.

Until they actually say it's a full implementation, I'm not getting my hopes up and will just assume it'll be limited stuff like this - garage walkarounds, time trials or specifically designed races against a small number of AI cars, maybe a fly around of the tracks in god mode.