GTP, I need your help!

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First, read this:

H&R Block customer claims fraud in federal class action
Wednesday, April 26, 2006

By Steve Gonzalez - East St. Louis Bureau

A class action complaint lodged against H & R Block in federal court claims the tax preparer fraudulently marketed and guided customers into purchasing Express Individual Retirement Accounts.

Representing the class, Pascha Perkins of Belleville claims H & R Block marketed Express IRAs without regard for whether they were suited for the person who was purchasing them and without adequate disclosure of the significant fees associated with them.

"Because of the inception and annual maintenance fees associated with the Express IRAs, most of the customers actually lost money on these accounts," the complaint alleges.

"In stark contrast, H&R Block's misconduct allowed it to reap millions of dollars in profit."

Perkins claims she and the class have suffered monetary injury by virtue of the alleged scheme implemented by H & R Block and it relied on its position of trust and fiduciary relationship as a tax advisor to market the IRAs to its low and moderate income customers, without disclosing the fees or low return.

"…Plaintiff and class members often lost money and paid more in fees to H & R Block than they earned in interest on their investment," the complaint states.

Represented by Michael Flannery of Carey & Danis, Jeffrey Lowe of St. Louis and Evan Buxner of St. Louis, Perkins claims federal court has jurisdiction over the case pursuant to the Class Action Fairness Act because there is complete diversity and because the amount in controversy exceeds $5 million.

According to Perkins, the majority of H & R Block's revenue comes from tax preparations, but in recent years it has attempted to distinguish itself from competitors by allowing its tax preparers to assume financial advisory roles.

H & R Block began selling the IRAs in 2001 as a pilot program and marketed them nationwide in 2002.

Perkins claims that unlike most IRAs, the only investment option in the Express IRA is a money market account, which typically has an interest rate that increases at a rate less than the rate of inflation.

"The interest rate often does not cover the fees imposed by H & R Block for the Express IRA," the complaint states.

She claims that H&R Block improperly marketed the IRAs based on generic, standardized scripts written for its tax preparer that were grossly inappropriate given the complex financial and tax implications of an IRA.

"Defendants failed to properly train its tax preparers to explain and advise consumers about the Express IRA," the complaint alleges.

Perkins claims she and other class members were charged numerous fees by H & R Block for the IRA.

She also claims that although H & R Block's internal studies indicated that the Express IRA interest was too low in relation to its fees, it fraudulently and maliciously marketed the Express IRA to its clients claiming that it had "great rates" and was a "better way to save" even though top-level employees knew that most customers were actually losing money.

The class will consist of, "All persons and entities in the United States who purchased Express IRA accounts from H & R Block."

Perkins claims the class "is so numerous" it may be impracticable to bring all members of the class before the court, and it is believed to be thousands in size.

"In some instances, class members may be unaware that a claim exists on their behalf," the complaint reads.

Perkins claims that the identities of Express IRA customers are readily identifiable through H&R Block's computer and paper records.

She also claims that she will fairly and adequately represent the members of the class and has no interests that are antagonistic to the claims of the class and also vows to vigorously pursue the claims of the class.

According to the complaint, there are numerous and substantial questions of law and fact common to all members of the class which will control in this litigation and which will predominate over any so-called individual issues which include whether H & R Block:
• Engaged in fraud and deception un the marketing and sale of the Express IRA
• Breached its fiduciary duties to Perkins and the class;
• Violated the Missouri and Illinois common law and statutory laws;
• Injured the class, and if so, the proper measures of damages; and
• Whether Perkins and the class are entitled to declaratory and/or injunctive relief as a result of H&R Block's conduct.

Perkins and the class are seeking a judgment certifying this action as a class action, an award for damages, including actual, compensatory and punitive damages, injunctive relief, pre and post-judgment interest and attorneys fees and costs of the suit.

The case has been assigned to Chief District Judge G. Patrick Murphy and Magistrate Judge Clifford Proud.

Link: http://www.madisonrecord.com/news/newsview.asp?c=178274

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I'm currently doing research on this case for a class, what I need you guys to do is vote once you have finished reading the article. Just a simple survey, I would really appreciate it if you guys helped me out. Of course, feel free to post any thoughts you have regarding the article/case.
 
i would say no, but then again, i dont trust accountants full stop
 
It comes down to this fact - maybe H&R presented them with the IRA, but no one MADE them sign up for it. If you sign up for something without getting all the information about it, it's your own fault. Sure H&R should provide that info up front, but if they don't, it's on you to ask before closing the deal.
 
I would say no, but for the vey fact that I never trust what most companies tell me off the bat. Like TB said, you should always get the information in writing first, and if you think it's only this company that doesn't give all the facts to their customers unless they ask, your wrong.
 
So, let me get this straight. A bunch of people bought IRAs without realizing that they would have to pay all the stuff associated with an IRA?

Let me guess, they heard about the IRA, were handed paperwork on it, and said yes without reading the paperwork.

I believe this is a case of a consumer making a bad call. Granted I base this on not having the full details of the case, just the accusations, but any consumer who hands over money and doesn't ask lots of questions or know the process they are becoming involved in is a fool and will lose money to someone eventually.
 
I feel they can't be trusted because they did it in order to make money, BUT, thats what all companies are there too do, and unfortuantly, as long as its all legal, its considered business I guess. :indiff:

Its more of a case of bad judgement by the consumer who shouldn't sign anything dealing with their money without researching it first. That means reading/hearing about it from a 2nd party, and perferably one who won't make money off the deal.
 
I voted no, and in regard to some of the posts here about the comsumer should have asked, it would appear that in some of these cases that would have had little effect in any case.

The reason being that part of the action involved the company in question selling and marketing the product with false information, its entirely possiable that some could have asked for exactly the right info and been given fraudulent figures.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
its entirely possiable that some could have asked for exactly the right info and been given fraudulent figures.
If that is indeed the case, Scaff, then I agree with you and H&R should be taken for all they've got.
 
Scaff
I voted no, and in regard to some of the posts here about the comsumer should have asked, it would appear that in some of these cases that would have had little effect in any case.

The reason being that part of the action involved the company in question selling and marketing the product with false information, its entirely possiable that some could have asked for exactly the right info and been given fraudulent figures.

Regards

Scaff
Yes, they are accused of purposely giving false information, but that is a tough one to prove and unless they get a whistle blower or can get access to emails/memos proving such then it is not ionformation that we have to base our judgement on. Now that they have filed these charges they can subpoena teh files, but just filing charges means that they suspect this is the case, despite not really knowing.

AT&T had a case like this and in the end it turned out that the third-party retailers were the ones being misleading in order to make a commission. This could be the case for some of these people.

I still fault the customer for investing in an IRA with a firm that does not specialize in investments. In all reality it could just be that the H&R fund managers suck.

How can you claim that management knew what the market would do over five years? This isn't insider trading where they lied to get the stocks high so they could sell out and run. In 2001, when they first offered these IRAs it could have been succesful investments that stumbled over the years. The fact that they had growth and not loss shows that it was a positive investment, but the consumers did not investigate the fees compared to other investment options. If they had they would be with Charles Schwab or T Rowe Price or one of the hundreds of other options out there to help you invest wisely.


As I said before based on thsi article I would still trust H&R Block. They hada bad deal, the customners lost out. It isn't as if they skimmed their taxes and then skipped town when the audit came in. If I used them for taxes I still would. But I do my own.
 
FoolKiller
Yes, they are accused of purposely giving false information, but that is a tough one to prove and unless they get a whistle blower or can get access to emails/memos proving such then it is not ionformation that we have to base our judgement on. Now that they have filed these charges they can subpoena teh files, but just filing charges means that they suspect this is the case, despite not really knowing.

AT&T had a case like this and in the end it turned out that the third-party retailers were the ones being misleading in order to make a commission. This could be the case for some of these people.

I still fault the customer for investing in an IRA with a firm that does not specialize in investments. In all reality it could just be that the H&R fund managers suck.

How can you claim that management knew what the market would do over five years? This isn't insider trading where they lied to get the stocks high so they could sell out and run. In 2001, when they first offered these IRAs it could have been succesful investments that stumbled over the years. The fact that they had growth and not loss shows that it was a positive investment, but the consumers did not investigate the fees compared to other investment options. If they had they would be with Charles Schwab or T Rowe Price or one of the hundreds of other options out there to help you invest wisely.


As I said before based on thsi article I would still trust H&R Block. They hada bad deal, the customners lost out. It isn't as if they skimmed their taxes and then skipped town when the audit came in. If I used them for taxes I still would. But I do my own.

Sorry but I do not believe I made any claim of fact regarding any of the above (and if it came across like that it was not my intention).

I was commenting on the piece (as asked) and giving my opinion that this could have happened.

Certainly I would agree that the consumer should do everything they can to protect themselves, however I do also believe that companies do also have to be held accountable if there actions can be shown to have been less than honest.

Even here in the UK, with relatively strong controls placed on Finance and Investment companies (an area my wife has worked in) mis-selling and desception has occured. We had a wide spread problem with cronic mis-selling of endowment mortages, when people were given very strong verbal promises about returns they would make. When these failed to materialise the result was mortages that would not even cover the value of the property. Now some of these people were stupid and greedy, but a good number of them were just hard working and trusting people who believed they were getting good advice from an expert.

Remember its just my opinion.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
Sorry but I do not believe I made any claim of fact regarding any of the above (and if it came across like that it was not my intention).

I was commenting on the piece (as asked) and giving my opinion that this could have happened.

Certainly I would agree that the consumer should do everything they can to protect themselves, however I do also believe that companies do also have to be held accountable if there actions can be shown to have been less than honest.

Even here in the UK, with relatively strong controls placed on Finance and Investment companies (an area my wife has worked in) mis-selling and desception has occured. We had a wide spread problem with cronic mis-selling of endowment mortages, when people were given very strong verbal promises about returns they would make. When these failed to materialise the result was mortages that would not even cover the value of the property. Now some of these people were stupid and greedy, but a good number of them were just hard working and trusting people who believed they were getting good advice from an expert.

Remember its just my opinion.

Regards

Scaff
Only my first paragraph was meant to address your comment about the company possibly using false information. My whole point is that I still trust them unless it is proven that they used illegal actions. Then it is theft.

From what we know I don't see that being the case.
 
FoolKiller
Only my first paragraph was meant to address your comment about the company possibly using false information. My whole point is that I still trust them unless it is proven that they used illegal actions. Then it is theft.

From what we know I don't see that being the case.

Fair point, from my own prespective I would have to admit that I would be very wary of dealing with them until it was resolved.

Hence my no vote, some may say that its not fair on the company in question (and whould have a point), but thats consumer choice.

Scaff
 
FoolKiller
Yes, they are accused of purposely giving false information, but that is a tough one to prove and unless they get a whistle blower or can get access to emails/memos proving such then it is not ionformation that we have to base our judgement on.

Funny you should say that:

…The lawsuit cites internal documents showing that H&R Block's senior management knew that many of its customers were losing money on their Express IRAs. For example, in a 2002 email to Mark Ernst, the company CEO, a district manager complained about the impact of these accounts on customers:

"I really don't think maintenance fees should exceed the amount of interest that we are paying on these accounts. Clients won't be happy seeing [their] investments decreasing ..."

Mr. Ernst forwarded this email to the Express IRA product manager and added his own comments: "The attached note . . . reflects the general sense that I think exists -- that Express IRA is the right thing for our clients, but the product is designed to nickel and dime clients to the point where our field people [don't] feel as good about the product as they should... ."

Source: http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=115560

And according to Eliot Spitzer (the New York State Attorney General leading this charge against H&R Block), there’s evidence that executives not only knew their clients were losing money, but also pushed their salespeople to sell more of these IRAs:

The internal documents also showed that tax preparers were told to "sell more I.R.A.'s" or "there's the door."

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/09/business/09block.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Mark Ernst is not only the CEO of H&R Block, he is also the Chairman and President. Nice one, idiot.

My assignment is to develop a recovery plan for H&R Block, to somehow restore its public image after all this is over. Yeah, they are pretty screwed and no I have no idea what I’m going to do. 👎

But thanks for all the feedback, this is great, guys. 👍
 
tabs
Funny you should say that:



Source: http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=115560

And according to Eliot Spitzer (the New York State Attorney General leading this charge against H&R Block), there’s evidence that executives not only knew their clients were losing money, but also pushed their salespeople to sell more of these IRAs:



Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/09/business/09block.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Mark Ernst is not only the CEO of H&R Block, he is also the Chairman and President. Nice one, idiot.

My assignment is to develop a recovery plan for H&R Block, to somehow restore its public image after all this is over. Yeah, they are pretty screwed and no I have no idea what I’m going to do. 👎

But thanks for all the feedback, this is great, guys. 👍

In light of all this I would definitely avoid their business. That is blatant criminal misconduct and theft by deception.

EDIT: How can I change my vote?

Of course, once this is taken care of and their management is sacked, locked up, or whatever and there is new leadership I would go back.
 
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